Content Post Why does Wingspan matter for Tackles?

[One-If-By-Sea]

Not if said pick is a multi pro bowler and opens holes for the run game and keeps the QB upright.

TBH I never really got the don't draft someone high because of their position.

Because some positions impact the game's outcome more than others. All positions, All Pro or not, do not effect winning equally. The majority of the higher value positions are related to the passing game, QB, WR, CB, Edge, and OT, for example.

Recognizing that, the overall value proposition also depends on the draft position. For example if there is a run on WRs in R1, the risk level choosing a OG in R2 might be significantly lower than the remaining WRs, such that "game impact" importance is not as critical as in R1. Clearly "game impact" is very important with the #4 pick and that is why usually the pick is a QB, WR, OT, etc., and nearly never an OG these days.

 

[pazrul72]

Making first contact is a big part of winning reps vs pass rushers. But leaning to make that first contact leaves you in a vulnerable position.

Stand with your back to the wall and measure your outstretched arm. Have someone hold a pencil .0000000001 inches further than your arm measures. You can say it’s such a trivial distance but the facts are that never ever in your life are you going to be able to stand with your back to the wall and reach that pencil. It doesn’t matter how ridiculously small that distance is, you just flat out won’t ever be able to reach it without leaning forward.

Wingspan is important because having a shorter one means you are in a more disadvantageous position on every single pass rush snap than you otherwise would have been. If the guy you’re blocking has longer arms than you, he’s got an easier time establishing first contest and sitting in the driver seat for that rep. The OT with shorter arms will have to use footwork and body positioning and discipline to not lean too much and open himself up to counters while he chases making that first contact. It means you have to more of a passive/patient pass blocker since you need to wait for the rusher to get a small bit closer to you before you can strike, because being too aggressive means you have to lean forward to make up for your shorter arms.

Playing football is really harder. Shorter arms as an OT makes it harder. It’s really that simple.

Only quibble I have with this it's you trivialize the amount when you say .0000001 of an inch. Campbell is 3 inches below the accepted minimum of 80 inches but most NFL tackles are 81, 82 or even 84 inch wingspan so it's really 4-7 inches short. That's....alot at the NFL level.

I've said it before but I feel I have to say it again, if he had 84 inch wingspan and I still saw his issues on tape I'd wonder why he wasn't more dominant. The only reason I care in the least is it does explain what I see on tape, over commiting in a direction, and getting pushed off his spot and if those issues pop up on college film how much worse will it be at the NFL level?

 

[dliverey44]

Because some positions impact the game's outcome more than others. All positions, All Pro or not, do not effect winning equally. The majority of the higher value positions are related to the passing game, QB, WR, CB, Edge, and OT, for example.

Recognizing that, the overall value proposition also depends on the draft position. For example if there is a run on WRs in R1, the risk level choosing a OG in R2 might be significantly lower than the remaining WRs, such that "game impact" importance is not as critical as in R1. Clearly "game impact" is very important with the #4 pick and that is why usually the pick is a QB, WR, OT, etc., and nearly never an OG these days.

I understand your point but just do not agree with it. I am of the opinion that interior pass rush is the most disruptive aspect of the defense, so if spending a top 5 pick stops that then I am all for it.

I do understand that that it is easier to plug in later round picks on the interior OL, but if I am facing top notch pass rushing DTs all year then I want to ensure that my OGs are up to the task. Just my opinion

 

[TheRainMaker]

TBH I never really got the don't draft someone high because of their position.

The Raiders fell into that trap in 2000. The correct pick at the time regardless of what we know now was Shaun Alexander who was highly touted coming out. Their running game was mediocre and a backfield of Garner, Alexander and Wheatley would've been brutal with their massive OL. The arrogant Raiders seriously thought the only thing standing their way of a Super Bowl was a K.

 

[JoeSixPat]

No it is NOT! It won't be a bad pick if he ends up being a good starting LG for a decade, but it will NOT be what you are looking at for the #4 pick in the draft. With that pick you should get a PREMIUM long term starter AT a premium position.

We have had a number of really good interior OL over the years and IIRC most were 3rd or 4th rounders, though some were UDFA's and one was the last pick (Steve Neal) and one was the last pick in the first round, (Logan Mankins).

To me, a "bust" is a guy who gets picked in the first round and can't play in the NFL

If your definition of a bust is a guy who gets picked in the first round and becomes a decades long starter at LG,
I think we need more "busts" on this team!

But I agree with you that if he's not the second coming of Bruce Armstrong every Patsfan will be talking about him like he's a bust.

No pressure on the kid!

 

[patfanken]

To me, a "bust" is a guy who gets picked in the first round and can't play in the NFL

If your definition of a bust is a guy who gets picked in the first round and becomes a decades long starter at LG,
I think we need more "busts" on this team!

But I agree with you that if he's not the second coming of Bruce Armstrong every Patsfan will be talking about him like he's a bust.

No pressure on the kid!

For me it more shaded than that. Joe Thuney was a great pick. Logan Mankins was a very good one. For me, picking at #4 I expect our pick to be on the all rookie team as a minimum, and a starter throughout his rookie contract and rated in the too 12 at his position. THAT's what you should expect at the #4 position. And as you move down my expectations are lowered.

You don't want to be selecting THAT high very often, but when you are there you NEED to hit on everyone of them. We hope we got our franchise QB last year and our franchise LT this year. IF that turns out to be the case then our era of suckatude will have proved to have had a silver lining. If not there needs to be hell to pay,

 

[Wozzy]

If what you said about the Titans were entirely true, then why was Vrabel not banging the table for someone else? You would think that for his own good he'd have gathered that a guy with a short-armed LT struggles with his job at LT, given his time with the Titans, right?

Did you hear a SINGLE report, ever, that Vrabel had a problem picking Campbell if he was what was left?

Are Wolfe and Vrabel simply self-destructive that they didn't go with another OT, trade down, or go for another explosive player on offense or defense??? Or are they simply idiots not to see what YOU see so clearly.

We agree a lot of the time, but not on this one. In 3 years one of us will have to eat some humble pie.

How come the DOZENS of professional football analysts the Pats pay good money to and go through HUNDREDS of collective hours watching will Campbell

Vrabel was banging the table for the Titans to pay AJ Brown and the GM traded him instead… not sure they cared much what the coach wanted.

 

[JoeSixPat]

For me it more shaded than that. Joe Thuney was a great pick. Logan Mankins was a very good one. For me, picking at #4 I expect our pick to be on the all rookie team as a minimum, and a starter throughout his rookie contract and rated in the too 12 at his position. THAT's what you should expect at the #4 position. And as you move down my expectations are lowered.

You don't want to be selecting THAT high very often, but when you are there you NEED to hit on everyone of them. We hope we got our franchise QB last year and our franchise LT this year. IF that turns out to be the case then our era of suckatude will have proved to have had a silver lining. If not there needs to be hell to pay,

I hear you - curious as to who you felt should have been picked at #4 then.

Obviously, like a lot of people I'm not sold that Campbell is and will be a starting caliber LT, especially since he's yet to play a snap and there's a LONG list of guys drafted in the 1st round with arms longer than his who teams also believed they were thei long term LT solution.

In fact I see this each and every season with teams that pick a LT and think they are set at that position - and then do the same thing the next year, and year after that. The NFL draft and even free agency can be just that much of a crap shoot.

I see all the reasons why he was picked so high and see all the reasons why he's a question mark - but to me there was no real choice once the Patriot's overtures to pretty much every free agent LT were rejected - even knowing that no one had more money available than the Pats.

So to me, he was the BEST chance that the Patriots had at that juncture to protect Maye (who also could be a bust) - but that doesn't mean squat. And my upside with Campbell is that if he can't cut it at LT we still likely have LG locked down for the next 5+ years.

There's LOTS of first round picks that wind up being backups or out of the league entirely. To me those are busts.

So I'm definitely not in the kool-aid club for a guy who has yet to play a snap, but there's not too many starters on any team I consider to be "busts" - even if they WERE drafted in the Top Ten and moved to a different position.

 

[rkarp1]

T Penning, arm length 34.25 bumping inside to OG

 

[patfanken]

Vrabel was banging the table for the Titans to pay AJ Brown and the GM traded him instead… not sure they cared much what the coach wanted.

 

[patfanken]

Vrabel was banging the table for the Titans to pay AJ Brown and the GM traded him instead… not sure they cared much what the coach wanted.

That MIGHT be true. But do you really expect any of us to believe that Mike Vrabel has the same power of the roster he had in Nashville. I'm sure he accepted the job from a desperate Bob Kraft for a job that gave him little say on the draft process. I THINK NOT, and so does everyone else.

Cambell is not here if Vrabel didn't want him to be here, Plain and simple. You know it. I know it. Now I don't know what went down with the Titans and Brown. But I do know that the 2 situations are NOT remotely the same.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

We’re up to 8 pages, but has anyone offered a good answer to the OP’s question? Lots of comments about arm length and not being able to reach the defender before he reaches you, which wasn’t the question.
If your arm length is ok but wingspan is well below average (i.e., a narrow shoulder span), how does that matter? It doesn’t affect the distance you can reach straight ahead. Can someone answer this without talking about arm length?

 

[Wozzy]

That MIGHT be true. But do you really expect any of us to believe that Mike Vrabel has the same power of the roster he had in Nashville. I'm sure he accepted the job from a desperate Bob Kraft for a job that gave him little say on the draft process. I THINK NOT, and so does everyone else.

Cambell is not here if Vrabel didn't want him to be here, Plain and simple. You know it. I know it. Now I don't know what went down with the Titans and Brown. But I do know that the 2 situations are NOT remotely the same.

Not sure what you’re trying to say at this point. You brought up Vrabel, I said the Titans. I’ve said repeatedly Vrabel didn’t have personnel power in Tennessee.

Now beyond that, what does it matter? Vrabel doesn’t have magic powers to differentiate a great prospect from a poor one…even if he might be better at it than some others.

When Belichick picked a poor prospect (in my estimation) I said so, when he picked a great one I said so. In fact I tried to dissect every prospect down the the finest detail. Campbell has everything you look for in a tackle prospect, he’s big, tall, strong, super athletic, smart and tough…. his one weakness is his wingspan.

That ^ doesn’t preclude him from being successful…. but I never rubber stamped any Belichick pick, or ignored question marks… I’m not starting now.

People here think that just because there’s a fresh start we have to put blinders on and say everything is perfect. Nothing in life is perfect, sometimes it only has to be good enough. I have high hopes for Campbell and this 2025 team, he might work out great… he might end up at guard eventually. Either way the team can recover and win meaningful games.

 

[Wozzy]

We’re up to 8 pages, but has anyone offered a good answer to the OP’s question? Lots of comments about arm length and not being able to reach the defender before he reaches you, which wasn’t the question.
If your arm length is ok but wingspan is well below average (i.e., a narrow shoulder span), how does that matter? It doesn’t affect the distance you can reach straight ahead. Can someone answer this without talking about arm length?

This ^ is the confusion here…

Bethel Johnson was really fast and failed…. so speed doesn’t matter.

Sound silly? It is silly, speed is what made Randy Moss or Tyreek Hill uniquely dangerous. It doesn’t mean other WR’s with less speed like Anquan Boldin can’t be successful, they just won’t be deep ball speed threats… but they can still be successful. They need all the other elements needed to be successful.

I don’t know why people take it personally Campbell has a narrow wingspan… it simply is. It’s fact.

 

[neuronet]

Is this going to be the new “why was Malcolm benched”

 

[Wozzy]

T Penning, arm length 34.25 bumping inside to OG

Sometimes prospects simply stink or underachieve, even hyper talented ones like Penning.

 

[Wozzy]

Is this going to be the new “why was Malcolm benched”

Not if Campbell plays well.

Butler peaked in 2016 and pretty much stunk after that. We have enough evidence why he was benched and he told us himself he wasn’t prepared. The best players played, he wouldn’t have made one iota of difference.

 

[sb1]

Teven Jenkins was drafted a few years ago with a similar profile as Campbell. Top college OT, very athletic but short arms and wingspan. He's now a guard. I'd rather not see Campbell have to go that route as we drafted him at 4th overall.

Guys without the arm length aren't just prone to getting beat by an NFL rusher, they're prone to having holding flags thrown on them. We'll see.

 

[sb1]

Not if Campbell plays well.

Butler peaked in 2016 and pretty much stunk after that. We have enough evidence why he was benched and he told us himself he wasn’t prepared. The best players played, he wouldn’t have made one iota of difference.

One 3rd down stop. That was the difference in that game. Butler would have made that stop.

 

[Raccoonsuit]

SEC competition. Won the sec ot award. Gave up 5 sacks in college, 3 his true freshman year.

None of the articles have any idea what's gonna happen. Dudes a world class athlete among pros. This isn't a skornoski situation at all. Yall are deluding yourselves.