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Content Post Why does Wingspan matter for Tackles?

This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.
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I agree that many other variables are way more important
Case in point: Lowe has a huge wingspan and not very good
I get what you’re refering to on your analogy. But we are talking about less than an inch - 2 inches max
I think Campbell will be just fine. We will see
People keep conflating wingspan and arm length… the two are not the same. Wingspan is more important at tackle.

And sure, it may not be the end all be all… but we’ve seen numerous high draft pick college tackles have to shift inside to guard because their narrow wings hampered them. Not saying it will with Campbell… but saying there aren’t comparable examples is outright false.

Vrabel alone drafted Peter Skoronski and Dillon Radunz to play tackle, and despite superior athleticism they were forced inside to guard due to their short wingspans.

Biff wants to be a successful porn star but only has a 3 inch micro peen… does he have the tools to succeed?

 
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Every now and then a guy comes out in the draft and just feels like the guy. I get that feeling with Campbell. His demeanor, his mentality, attitude, work ethic alone with help him succeed in the NFL. When he knocking DEs and edge rushers 5 yards off the line when rham is running the rock I'm going to enjoy watching it.
Now we are feeling guys?
 
Fwiw, not all of us have taken that stance...

I thought it was an informative post as to why wingspan is considered an important criteria in terms of measurables when it comes to the tackle position...
@TheRainMaker I agree with Pape. I thought it was an informative and balanced post. @Huckleberry1 appears to be overly sensitive like Ring6 so ignore him and keep doing a great job posting.
 
Much has been made of Campbell's athleticism and power. If he has good footwork and can semi-regularly square up with rushers, he should do OK.



 
Spent 5 years as a vet tech at a 23 Dr emergency hospital. It was my job to make sure they didn't move or bite while getting vaccines, blood draws, X-rays etc. Also pick them up and put them on the exam table. One of my favorite things was the owner being like "oh no he's really hea" as the dog is up on the table "vy....oh." the look on the owners face was always great cuz I lifted their big ass dog like he weighed nothing.

Ah, well, that's a better answer that I'd imagined.
My wife runs a large animal welfare org that includes two vet hospitals, and we've fostered hundreds of animals, so I'm feelin ya.
One of our more recent foster experiences was a 50 lb. Mom with a litter of 7 that looked like they'd be of the same size. So we got them adopted all around town, with that expectation. Turns out Dad was a Boerboel and they grew to between 90 and 140 pounds. I'm still apologizing to those adopters but they all love their dogs, who are comical, gentle souls with the jaw strength to bite through a car.
 
This is now the 2nd poster that misread my posts. The question was why wingspan matters and I answered it and took the words from the scouts. Nowhere in there did I say he will fail because his arms were measured short.

Fair enough. At this point I’m just completely burned out on this discussion, It’s been going on for 6 months , so I’m just going to ignore it from here on out. One way or the other we will find out if athleticism matters more than arm length. If Campbell fails it will end up being a marker for all tackles in future drafts, if he succeeds then it won’t be as big a deal.
 
Fair enough. At this point I’m just completely burned out on this discussion, It’s been going on for 6 months , so I’m just going to ignore it from here on out. One way or the other we will find out if athleticism matters more than arm length. If Campbell fails it will end up being a marker for all tackles in future drafts, if he succeeds then it won’t be as big a deal.
But that’s the point, it won’t be a market at all, because it’s irrelevant.
If he success or fails it won’t be because of arm length.
He will either be a good offensive tackle who happens to have arms an inch shorter than most or a bad offensive tackle who happens to have arms shorter than most. It has no more causation than his hair color or size if his nose.
 
We will never agree on this. Just for ****s and giggle I randomly looked at a Patriots Ravens playoff game from 2011, just to watch the left tackle’s on every down, and in the first Ravens drive what do I see but their left tackle allowing a sack. You know who it was? Bryant McKinnie, a HOF caliber left tackle. Every tackle battles in every play all season long, be it college or pro’s. It’s never easy, and somehow creating a new metric called “ struggling” because the actual metrics, allowing sacks and pressures doesn’t fit your argument doesn’t make it any different. They battle full out on every play, and what matters is what actually happens, the tackle either allows a sack or pressure or they don’t. The completely made up “ struggled” metric is as valid as “almost fumbled” or “ almost intercepted” crap that people like Sam Monson made up. It doesn’t exist. If Will Campbell allows a bunch of sacks and pressures this season that’s what he will be judged upon, but if he doesn’t allow many sacks or pressures then he certainly won’t be judged on “ struggling” because that’s what they all do. The defensive lineman or linebacker struggles to get to the quarterback, and the offensive linemen struggle to keep them off him.
We can agree to disagree, after all until the fall when we see NFL action there is no proof one way or the other. I see your point that statistically Will Campbell was dominant and the best LT in the country. I'm not arguing any of that, I'm merely pointing out for the people who only look at stats, and where he was picked, that the expectations are probably going to be a disappointment. I don't know about you but when I think of a player picked fourth overall I expect them to be top 5 or 10 at their position sometime in their rookie contract.

I don't think Campbell will ever be top 10, probably somewhere in the 10-20 range, a little above average in his best year. The reason I think that is the film I have watched. At no point did I see him drive block his guy 3 yards backwards so he isn't an elite run blocker. He's fast, smart, and mobile so he gets where he needs to be in front of his man and that has value in a zone blocking scheme but if you put a man head up on him and expect him to move the line of scrimmage... I just haven't seen it.

A LT who isn't great at run blocking, ok that's not what they get paid the big bucks for anyway so clearly his pass blocking is elite. At no point when I was watching did I say WOW like I did multiple times watching Membou's film. Campbell is a fine technician that has seen it all and is where he is supposed to be. But it isn't clean, it isn't dominate, and at the college level it should be. When I saw that I asked why? Low and behold he's got a historically small wingspan. If I watched the film and his wingspan had been 84 inches I would have been digging for another reason, doesn't care? lousy work ethic? lazy? doesn't take to coaching? Thing is Campbell passes all of those questions with flying colors so it has to be the wingspan.

Pass rushers in college generally don't have a huge repertoire of rush moves, they tend to have one they have mastered and that's good enough against the vast majority of guys they go against. NFL players are different, they know exactly what move will highlight your weakness. The weakness of a guy with a small frame is counter moves where you start off with a speed rush to the outside, and then once they have committed swatting their arms and going inside. That's what I'm most worried about, and who knows it might not be an issue. No one will be happier to eat crow then me, feel free to bring it up every all pro he earns, and I will admit the error of my ways. It won't be the first time, I've learned to not question the pros on why they pick someone after Devin McCourty. I was livid "another short ****ing corner" throwing things, just absurdly pissed. Turns out he should be a first ballet patriots hall of famer, a borderline NFL hall of famer (no but it's close) and was one of the better picks in Patriot history. I was flat out wrong. Maybe I will be again.
 
When you draft a guy with potential and coach him correctly you get a ten year starter like Matt light... when you F up the positions year after year u get vederian lowe.. agreed or not it's a proven fact.
His arms are 33”, the same as the best LT in the league. But you’re morphing this thread which was about wingspan. He does have a clearly shorter wingspan than anyone, indicating narrow shoulders, but why does that matter? Separate issue from arm length.
 
We can agree to disagree, after all until the fall when we see NFL action there is no proof one way or the other. I see your point that statistically Will Campbell was dominant and the best LT in the country. I'm not arguing any of that, I'm merely pointing out for the people who only look at stats, and where he was picked, that the expectations are probably going to be a disappointment. I don't know about you but when I think of a player picked fourth overall I expect them to be top 5 or 10 at their position sometime in their rookie contract.

I don't think Campbell will ever be top 10, probably somewhere in the 10-20 range, a little above average in his best year. The reason I think that is the film I have watched. At no point did I see him drive block his guy 3 yards backwards so he isn't an elite run blocker. He's fast, smart, and mobile so he gets where he needs to be in front of his man and that has value in a zone blocking scheme but if you put a man head up on him and expect him to move the line of scrimmage... I just haven't seen it.

A LT who isn't great at run blocking, ok that's not what they get paid the big bucks for anyway so clearly his pass blocking is elite. At no point when I was watching did I say WOW like I did multiple times watching Membou's film. Campbell is a fine technician that has seen it all and is where he is supposed to be. But it isn't clean, it isn't dominate, and at the college level it should be. When I saw that I asked why? Low and behold he's got a historically small wingspan. If I watched the film and his wingspan had been 84 inches I would have been digging for another reason, doesn't care? lousy work ethic? lazy? doesn't take to coaching? Thing is Campbell passes all of those questions with flying colors so it has to be the wingspan.

Pass rushers in college generally don't have a huge repertoire of rush moves, they tend to have one they have mastered and that's good enough against the vast majority of guys they go against. NFL players are different, they know exactly what move will highlight your weakness. The weakness of a guy with a small frame is counter moves where you start off with a speed rush to the outside, and then once they have committed swatting their arms and going inside. That's what I'm most worried about, and who knows it might not be an issue. No one will be happier to eat crow then me, feel free to bring it up every all pro he earns, and I will admit the error of my ways. It won't be the first time, I've learned to not question the pros on why they pick someone after Devin McCourty. I was livid "another short ****ing corner" throwing things, just absurdly pissed. Turns out he should be a first ballet patriots hall of famer, a borderline NFL hall of famer (no but it's close) and was one of the better picks in Patriot history. I was flat out wrong. Maybe I will be again.

Fair enough. My apology for getting pissy.
 
His arms are 33”, the same as the best LT in the league. But you’re morphing this thread which was about wingspan. He does have a clearly shorter wingspan than anyone, indicating narrow shoulders, but why does that matter? Separate issue from arm length.
He was a top 5 draft pick.
 
it doesn't matter
Campbell will be fine
He is not going to win every block.

We just need him winning way more than he loses and he should be the # 1 NE LT and a foundation piece like Maye.
 
He is not going to win every block.

We just need him winning way more than he loses and he should be the # 1 NE LT and a foundation piece like Maye.
agree
I said he would be fine
I did not say he would be an all pro his rookie season
 
People keep conflating wingspan and arm length… the two are not the same. Wingspan is more important at tackle.

And sure, it may not be the end all be all… but we’ve seen numerous high draft pick college tackles have to shift inside to guard because their narrow wings hampered them. Not saying it will with Campbell… but saying there aren’t comparable examples is outright false.

Vrabel alone drafted Peter Skoronski and Dillon Radunz to play tackle, and despite superior athleticism they were forced inside to guard due to their short wingspans.

Biff wants to be a successful porn star but only has a 3 inch micro peen… does he have the tools to succeed?

 
We can agree to disagree, after all until the fall when we see NFL action there is no proof one way or the other. I see your point that statistically Will Campbell was dominant and the best LT in the country. I'm not arguing any of that, I'm merely pointing out for the people who only look at stats, and where he was picked, that the expectations are probably going to be a disappointment. I don't know about you but when I think of a player picked fourth overall I expect them to be top 5 or 10 at their position sometime in their rookie contract.

I don't think Campbell will ever be top 10, probably somewhere in the 10-20 range, a little above average in his best year. The reason I think that is the film I have watched. At no point did I see him drive block his guy 3 yards backwards so he isn't an elite run blocker. He's fast, smart, and mobile so he gets where he needs to be in front of his man and that has value in a zone blocking scheme but if you put a man head up on him and expect him to move the line of scrimmage... I just haven't seen it.

A LT who isn't great at run blocking, ok that's not what they get paid the big bucks for anyway so clearly his pass blocking is elite. At no point when I was watching did I say WOW like I did multiple times watching Membou's film. Campbell is a fine technician that has seen it all and is where he is supposed to be. But it isn't clean, it isn't dominate, and at the college level it should be. When I saw that I asked why? Low and behold he's got a historically small wingspan. If I watched the film and his wingspan had been 84 inches I would have been digging for another reason, doesn't care? lousy work ethic? lazy? doesn't take to coaching? Thing is Campbell passes all of those questions with flying colors so it has to be the wingspan.

Pass rushers in college generally don't have a huge repertoire of rush moves, they tend to have one they have mastered and that's good enough against the vast majority of guys they go against. NFL players are different, they know exactly what move will highlight your weakness. The weakness of a guy with a small frame is counter moves where you start off with a speed rush to the outside, and then once they have committed swatting their arms and going inside. That's what I'm most worried about, and who knows it might not be an issue. No one will be happier to eat crow then me, feel free to bring it up every all pro he earns, and I will admit the error of my ways. It won't be the first time, I've learned to not question the pros on why they pick someone after Devin McCourty. I was livid "another short ****ing corner" throwing things, just absurdly pissed. Turns out he should be a first ballet patriots hall of famer, a borderline NFL hall of famer (no but it's close) and was one of the better picks in Patriot history. I was flat out wrong. Maybe I will be again.
This is why I don’t value your opinion. You started with wingspan as if it was a damning issue then you talked about it’s really movement and positioning which has nothing to do with wingspan. Then you say Campbell “struggled a lot” in college and now you say he was the best LT in the nation (finally got one right). At one point you said college tackles never give up sacks

Now you decide before he ever plays a snap in the NFL that sport of being the best LT in college, being picked #4 by the Patriots which was consistent with virtually every projection, event be top 10 at his position but will be 10-20.

Now you are saying the best college LT sucked and you don’t think he’s lazy, doesn’t care and don’t take to coaching so the only reason left is wingspan. THATS your proof. You dint lie he player and are trying to find something to pin on him. So since you see no flaw, boom, wingspan. This is why you stop responding every time I ask what a LT does that requires his arms outstretched to their horizontal maximum. You don’t know. You can’t find another flaw so IT HAS TO BE WINGSPAN.

You lose all credibility.

You last couple of sentences are the ones that matter because you are always wrong.
 
He is not going to win every block.

We just need him winning way more than he loses and he should be the # 1 NE LT and a foundation piece like Maye.
Show me ANY LT that wins EVERY SNAP, and I'll buy you a bridge over the Atlantic to Europe.
 
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