Content Post Why does Wingspan matter for Tackles?

[Triumph]

I will say, the chances of Campbell succeeding at LT have increased dramatically with the pick of TreVeyon Henderson.

A lot of people on this board don't even think about the RB in pass protection. Stevenson is average to good at it. It's going to stand out to the point with Henderson that it will be noticed. Dude's an absolute animal.

Rated the best pass blocking RB in the draft is saying something.

 

[Huckleberry1]

He was initially measured under 32 5/8 which put him the shortest since 2011 and the 7th percentile in the last 20 years. I thought it was 2000. He measured at 33 inches at his pro day.

It isn't and most tackles in the NFL don't have short wingspans. Every position is going to have measurements teams are obsessed with for a reason. They are going to be concerned with short QB's and WR's, small hands for QB's and RB's, lack of arm strength for QB, slow 40 times for skill players, etc.

"Offensive tackles need longer arms when blocking edge defenders who are often long, elite athletes. If a defender can get his hands on a tackle but the tackle can't due to his shorter arms, the defender can blow up the play and cause problems for the offense."

Why do NFL combine measurements matter? Why results are important for OL, QB, WR

The NFL combine includes drills, interviews and measurements of hundreds of prospects. Here's why certain measurements matter for future draftees.

www.usatoday.com

"Why scouts obsess over arm length

Longer arms help tackles create separation from defenders, recover quicker when beaten, control leverage at the point of attack, and create a larger radius for the pocket. The unwritten rule was always that NFL teams prefer tackles with arms over 34", with some considering 33" and below a major red flag."

"The data that stands out regarding starting OT's

• Onlly 4 starting tackles in the NFL have arms shorter than 33"
• Over 65% of starters have arms measuring 34" or longer"

Chicago Bears Draft: Will Campbell’s Arm Length — Dealbreaker or Overblown?

Rumors are that the Chicago Bears are highly interested in Will Campbell at 10 despite his arm length. Does NFL Draft history say this is actually a bad idea?

beargoggleson.com

Scarnecchia discusses this and isn't as worried about it as others, but says to look at his tape. As I mentioned earlier, either it's a factor for Campbell or it isn't. We will find out.

No absolutes: A lesson on o-line arm length with Dante Scarnecchia

Are Will Campbell's undersized arms a red flag? Phil Perry turned to coaching legend Dante Scarnecchia for an in-depth breakdown of arm length and its imapct.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

It’s amazing how you can go on and on and on and on and on and on about “ wingspan” while completely ignoring the fact that Campbell is in the top 1% of all tackles tested since 1986 in athleticism. It’s like the only thing that matters to you is arm length, ignoring completely the fact that many tackles fail completely despite having really long arms because they SUCK! Cam Robinson, Evan Neal and so many other first round tackles suck because they lack the work ethic, character, intensity, or not that it matters much in pro sports, the athleticism. I honestly can’t wait for the season to start so Campbell can shut up all of those with arm length fetishes.

 

[Triumph]

If Campbell is the wrong pick then Wolf and Groh are gone down the road.

You cant be picking that high in the draft and not come away with a stud at his position. There comes a point where you must fill the position and move on to other areas of need. Building for the future does not entail going back and fixing foundation pieces.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It’s amazing how you can go on and on and on and on and on and on about “ wingspan” while completely ignoring the fact that Campbell is in the top 1% of all tackles tested since 1986 in athleticism. It’s like the only thing that matters to you is arm length, ignoring completely the fact that many tackles fail completely despite having really long arms because they SUCK! Cam Robinson, Evan Neal and so many other first round tackles suck because they lack the work ethic, character, intensity, or not that it matters much in pro sports, the athleticism. I honestly can’t wait for the season to start so Campbell can shut up all of those with arm length fetishes.

This is now the 2nd poster that misread my posts. The question was why wingspan matters and I answered it and took the words from the scouts. Nowhere in there did I say he will fail because his arms were measured short.

 

[pazrul72]

The claim that Campbell “ got beat a bunch” is pure fiction. He allowed 1 sack last year, and averaged 1.5 pressures a game. For some perspective on this Cam Robinson, who some here really wanted them to sign, allowed 18 pressures in one game, and his arms are 35.5 inches long/90th percentile. That’s the same # of pressures Will Campbell allowed all season. That sure as hell isn’t getting “ beaten a bunch.” And his career stats are just as good. I’m not sure if some here realize it, but offensive linemen have to battle on every snap, it isn’t easy street. And they way they are measured is by pressures and sacks, not some guy watching YouTube and saying, “ Wow, he really struggled with Will Anderson on that snap.” News flash, if Anderson didn’t get the pressure or sack then Campbell won that battle. The critics are creating a stat ( struggling) that doesn’t exist to try and bolster a really weak argument against Campbell. Every tackle struggles on pretty much every play, but the only things that matters is whether they allowed the pressure or sack or not, struggling to keep defensive linemen and linebackers off of their quarterback is their job, it’s not a cakewalk.

Will Campbell isn’t a finished product, he’s a rookie tackle who has to learn how to play at the highest level to become a great player. That’s going to take some time and work, and fortunately for Drake Maye and Patriot fans he has the size, athletic ability, and work ethic to become a great player for them for years to come.

I feel like having to explain my point about the Campbell concerns has made it sound like I don't like the player or think he's going to suck. Let me reiterate a couple of things, he is stupidly athletic, top 1% of all lineman ever. That vertical and broad jump at his size is silly and should make his explosiveness off the charts. He is very football smart, seen every blitz twist and stunt and picks them up well. His movement and torque to get back in front of his man after getting beat are *chef kiss*. He has many traits that make him going fourth overall not insane, the biggest probably being his floor is average starter for the next decade.

All of that said I think we are arguing semantics. Got beat alot is the same thing as struggling. Yes he didn't give up sacks but in college none of the tackles do. What I did see, and on more then just the will Anderson video which granted was not his best day at the office, was a guy that it took 2 or 3 moves to get by but was thrown off his spot consistently. Compare that to 2018 Trent Brown. Once he got his hands on you it was over, no amount of moves were getting by him, dlineman got absorbed into a black hole and were never heard from again. That is what a dominant pass blocking LT looks like and Campbell ain't it. Again outstanding movement and torque to recover from getting beat, but he does get beat sometimes multiple times in a rep. It works for him but it is ugly to watch.

 

[pazrul72]

That must take some serious technique

As much psychology warfare as technique. You sweep a dog off its feet and 3 feet into the air in less then a second they have that whoooa moment and fight you a hell of a lot less because you have already established I'm bigger and stronger then you. Except for chihuahua's cuz **** those tiny terrorists.

 

[Pape]

I'm not sure why it gets a response back that I hope Campbell fails.

Fwiw, not all of us have taken that stance...

I thought it was an informative post as to why wingspan is considered an important criteria in terms of measurables when it comes to the tackle position...

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

You can’t look at wingspan alone. Athleticism, strength and smarts (technique) matter just as much if not more.

Why is it important… walk around a ten foot fence, then a 100 yard fence… which was easier?

I agree that many other variables are way more important
Case in point: Lowe has a huge wingspan and not very good
I get what you’re refering to on your analogy. But we are talking about less than an inch - 2 inches max
I think Campbell will be just fine. We will see

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

The claim that Campbell “ got beat a bunch” is pure fiction. He allowed 1 sack last year, and averaged 1.5 pressures a game. For some perspective on this Cam Robinson, who some here really wanted them to sign, allowed 18 pressures in one game, and his arms are 35.5 inches long/90th percentile. That’s the same # of pressures Will Campbell allowed all season. That sure as hell isn’t getting “ beaten a bunch.” And his career stats are just as good. I’m not sure if some here realize it, but offensive linemen have to battle on every snap, it isn’t easy street. And they way they are measured is by pressures and sacks, not some guy watching YouTube and saying, “ Wow, he really struggled with Will Anderson on that snap.” News flash, if Anderson didn’t get the pressure or sack then Campbell won that battle. The critics are creating a stat ( struggling) that doesn’t exist to try and bolster a really weak argument against Campbell. Every tackle struggles on pretty much every play, but the only things that matters is whether they allowed the pressure or sack or not, struggling to keep defensive linemen and linebackers off of their quarterback is their job, it’s not a cakewalk.

Will Campbell isn’t a finished product, he’s a rookie tackle who has to learn how to play at the highest level to become a great player. That’s going to take some time and work, and fortunately for Drake Maye and Patriot fans he has the size, athletic ability, and work ethic to become a great player for them for years to come.

I did not get the Cam Robinson love
I watched a game and he had 5 penalties in the 1st half and was a turnstile
The wingspan thing confuses me
They measure to the tip of your middle finger
So if your hands are big you have a suitable wingspan
But your hands are usually in a fist so you can punch
Or they are gripping the inside of the defenders pads
Campbell has small hands. Hence the small wingspan

 

[Water Boy]

Good post. I think Campbell has some room to grow technique-wise. He'll need to have impeccable technique to overcome the wing span. I don't think he'll be Tristan Wirfs, but if he has a career similar to Matt Light, I'd take that all day long.

 

[Real fan 02]

This times 100. He's our LT and until we see a problem no reason to obsess over it. No point in crying over milk that hasn't even been poured into the glass yet.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

If Campbell is the wrong pick then Wolf and Groh are gone down the road.

You cant be picking that high in the draft and not come away with a stud at his position. There comes a point where you must fill the position and move on to other areas of need. Building for the future does not entail going back and fixing foundation pieces.

Things happen, 1st rdrs bust all the time....
Are you new to the draft?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Good comps! That's why the play the game on the field and not on paper.

 

[Real fan 02]

Good comps! That's why the play the game on the field and not on paper.

Every now and then a guy comes out in the draft and just feels like the guy. I get that feeling with Campbell. His demeanor, his mentality, attitude, work ethic alone with help him succeed in the NFL. When he knocking DEs and edge rushers 5 yards off the line when rham is running the rock I'm going to enjoy watching it.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I feel like having to explain my point about the Campbell concerns has made it sound like I don't like the player or think he's going to suck. Let me reiterate a couple of things, he is stupidly athletic, top 1% of all lineman ever. That vertical and broad jump at his size is silly and should make his explosiveness off the charts. He is very football smart, seen every blitz twist and stunt and picks them up well. His movement and torque to get back in front of his man after getting beat are *chef kiss*. He has many traits that make him going fourth overall not insane, the biggest probably being his floor is average starter for the next decade.

All of that said I think we are arguing semantics. Got beat alot is the same thing as struggling. Yes he didn't give up sacks but in college none of the tackles do. What I did see, and on more then just the will Anderson video which granted was not his best day at the office, was a guy that it took 2 or 3 moves to get by but was thrown off his spot consistently. Compare that to 2018 Trent Brown. Once he got his hands on you it was over, no amount of moves were getting by him, dlineman got absorbed into a black hole and were never heard from again. That is what a dominant pass blocking LT looks like and Campbell ain't it. Again outstanding movement and torque to recover from getting beat, but he does get beat sometimes multiple times in a rep. It works for him but it is ugly to watch.

We will never agree on this. Just for ****s and giggle I randomly looked at a Patriots Ravens playoff game from 2011, just to watch the left tackle’s on every down, and in the first Ravens drive what do I see but their left tackle allowing a sack. You know who it was? Bryant McKinnie, a HOF caliber left tackle. Every tackle battles in every play all season long, be it college or pro’s. It’s never easy, and somehow creating a new metric called “ struggling” because the actual metrics, allowing sacks and pressures doesn’t fit your argument doesn’t make it any different. They battle full out on every play, and what matters is what actually happens, the tackle either allows a sack or pressure or they don’t. The completely made up “ struggled” metric is as valid as “almost fumbled” or “ almost intercepted” crap that people like Sam Monson made up. It doesn’t exist. If Will Campbell allows a bunch of sacks and pressures this season that’s what he will be judged upon, but if he doesn’t allow many sacks or pressures then he certainly won’t be judged on “ struggling” because that’s what they all do. The defensive lineman or linebacker struggles to get to the quarterback, and the offensive linemen struggle to keep them off him.

 

[Real fan 02]

I

If Campbell is the wrong pick then Wolf and Groh are gone down the road.

You cant be picking that high in the draft and not come away with a stud at his position. There comes a point where you must fill the position and move on to other areas of need. Building for the future does not entail going back and fixing foundation pieces.

I think we got a stud at LT.. OL have to have a certain attitude and mentally aside from physical attributes to succeed. Those guys don't come out the game they line up each snap and face different rushers. Campbell feels like a day one starter and long term protection for Drakea left side.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

We will never agree on this. Just for ****s and giggle I randomly looked at a Patriots Ravens playoff game from 2011, just to watch the left tackle’s on every down, and in the first Ravens drive what do I see but their left tackle allowing a sack. You know who it was? Bryant McKinnie, a HOF caliber left tackle. Every tackle battles in every play all season long, be it college or pro’s. It’s never easy, and somehow creating a new metric called “ struggling” because the actual metrics, allowing sacks and pressures doesn’t fit your argument doesn’t make it any different. They battle full out on every play, and what matters is what actually happens, the tackle either allows a sack or pressure or they don’t. The completely made up “ struggled” metric is as valid as “almost fumbled” or “ almost intercepted” crap that people like Sam Monson made up. It doesn’t exist. If Will Campbell allows a bunch of sacks and pressures this season that’s what he will be judged upon, but if he doesn’t allow many sacks or pressures then he certainly won’t be judged on “ struggling” because that’s what they all do. The defensive lineman or linebacker struggles to get to the quarterback, and the offensive linemen struggle to keep them off him.

It's how it looks bruh....
Who REALLY GAF how it looks? Fkn STUPID.

 

[Ring 6]

I responded to you in two sentences. The remaining post was answering someone else. When you makes claims, it's a good idea to provide receipts. But I agree that if you're looking at it on your phone, it looks like a novel.

The question was why wingspan was important. I answered it as to why scouts and teams are concerned over it. I'm not sure why it gets a response back that I hope Campbell fails.

Where did I say you hope Campbell fails? I didn’t say that at all.

 

[Ring 6]

I feel like having to explain my point about the Campbell concerns has made it sound like I don't like the player or think he's going to suck. Let me reiterate a couple of things, he is stupidly athletic, top 1% of all lineman ever. That vertical and broad jump at his size is silly and should make his explosiveness off the charts. He is very football smart, seen every blitz twist and stunt and picks them up well. His movement and torque to get back in front of his man after getting beat are *chef kiss*. He has many traits that make him going fourth overall not insane, the biggest probably being his floor is average starter for the next decade.

All of that said I think we are arguing semantics. Got beat alot is the same thing as struggling. Yes he didn't give up sacks but in college none of the tackles do. What I did see, and on more then just the will Anderson video which granted was not his best day at the office, was a guy that it took 2 or 3 moves to get by but was thrown off his spot consistently. Compare that to 2018 Trent Brown. Once he got his hands on you it was over, no amount of moves were getting by him, dlineman got absorbed into a black hole and were never heard from again. That is what a dominant pass blocking LT looks like and Campbell ain't it. Again outstanding movement and torque to recover from getting beat, but he does get beat sometimes multiple times in a rep. It works for him but it is ugly to watch.

He ain’t Trent Brien isn’t a ringing endorsement. Nor is I dint care he didn’t give up sacks because no one gives up sacks in college.

Let’s put it this way:
Would you rather have an OT blocking who is agile and can get to the spot he needs to effectively and strong and a very good pass blocker or a lesser athlete who isn’t so good but had 1 inch longer fingers?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Where did I say you hope Campbell fails? I didn’t say that at all.

I wasn't referring to you.