AB & Other "What Could've Been's" From The Brady/Bill Era

[sb1]

This is more like a “what if” than what could’ve been…

Tuna wasn’t playing footsie with the Jets and was the Pats HC in 97. BB stays on board and becomes his DC. Do we beat GB? Or win a title later?

 

[1960Pats]

4th and 2 was in 2009. Saints were a really good team that thumped the Colts in the SB. Did you mean 2006 where they could have played a Rex Grossman Bears team in the Super Bowl if the ref didn't call face-guarding which didn't exist in the rulebook?

Faulk converted the 4th and 2. Had it here after the "football move".


This is where they spotted it. Lol

Yeah, thanks to you and @NFL Mystique I stand corrected. It was the 2006 Bears I was thinking about. I got confused again. The Saints were very strong in 2009. That was before the NYFL destroyed them.

On that 4th and 2 play in 2009, the Pats really blew that big time. They had the ball with just over two minutes left and a 3rd and 2. After they threw an incomplete pass they burned their last TO. Had they either run the ball or waited a few seconds to call the TO on 3rd down, then they would have gotten a challenge on the spot on 4th down, either because the Pats had their last TO or it would have been under two minutes and an automatic review.

I blame Bill for that one.

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Brady getting hurt in 2008 is up there. I was in the 11th grade, living in Upstate NY after they went 18-1. Remember looking forward for a redemption tour with an easier schedule and basically the same team. Lasted all of 7 minutes, still ended up being one of my favorite seasons in retrospective. It was nice not being an anxious wreck for 5 months out of the season. And the last game was a fun one, the wind game in Buffalo with still a shot of the playoffs. Remember being at the local mall around here with friends just wasting time and catching bits and pieces of that game in random stores. Then going home in time for the Jets to lay down to Miami.

Aaron Hernandez, he was my favorite player on the team at the time. He was a TE Deebo Samuel. When him and Gronk signed long term I think after the 2012 season I was ecstatic. Unfortunately football was his second job, and being a serial killer was his first job.

Honorable mentions are Moss' near catch at the end of superbowl 42, it makes me sad whenever I rewatch it, so close. Another one Id say was the entire 2005 season. Injuries injuries injuries. That team had a real shot at a 3 peat, then everyone went down. I guess I can add in Gronks injury history. Yeah we got one of the best of all time to do it, but he could have been better. Go re-watch Gronks 2011 season, he wasnt nearly the same athlete he was just 2 seasons later.

 

[1960Pats]

Brady getting hurt in 2008 is up there. I was in the 11th grade, living in Upstate NY after they went 18-1. Remember looking forward for a redemption tour with an easier schedule and basically the same team. Lasted all of 7 minutes, still ended up being one of my favorite seasons in retrospective. It was nice not being an anxious wreck for 5 months out of the season. And the last game was a fun one, the wind game in Buffalo with still a shot of the playoffs. Remember being at the local mall around here with friends just wasting time and catching bits and pieces of that game in random stores. Then going home in time for the Jets to lay down to Miami.

Aaron Hernandez, he was my favorite player on the team at the time. He was a TE Deebo Samuel. When him and Gronk signed long term I think after the 2012 season I was ecstatic. Unfortunately football was his second job, and being a serial killer was his first job.

Honorable mentions are Moss' near catch at the end of superbowl 42, it makes me sad whenever I rewatch it, so close. Another one Id say was the entire 2005 season. Injuries injuries injuries. That team had a real shot at a 3 peat, then everyone went down. I guess I can add in Gronks injury history. Yeah we got one of the best of all time to do it, but he could have been better. Go re-watch Gronks 2011 season, he wasnt nearly the same athlete he was just 2 seasons later.

Losing Brady in 2008 hurt more because that was the end of that Pats defensive group. They were the difference in a lot of games.

Hernandez reminds me of a bigger Edelman. They both had a nose for the open spaces and how to get to them.

I was just talking yesterday to the little woman about Gronk, the Steamroller/Bulldozer/TE with hands like glue. I could see that an ad with him in his underwear had distracted her from our conversation. When I pointed it out she gave me a big smile.

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Losing Brady in 2008 hurt more because that was the end of that Pats defensive group. They were the difference in a lot of games.

Hernandez reminds me of a bigger Edelman. They both had a nose for the open spaces and how to get to them.

I was just talking yesterday to the little woman about Gronk, the Steamroller/Bulldozer/TE with hands like glue. I could see that an ad with him in his underwear had distracted her from our conversation. When I pointed it out she gave me a big smile.

I honestly think to this day that even Patriot fans UNDERRATE Rob Gronkowski. He truly was one of the greatest to ever suit it up, and consider the fact that he spent just as much time on the operating table as he did the football field, makes it even more incredible. Truly in my unicorns of athletes in my lifetime.

Hernandez was different on the field. I think he was 20 years old his second game and put up 5 or 6 for over 100 and Gronk wouldn't even be allowed to see the field because he didn't know the playbook lol.

Fun story about Rob, well kind of. I remember having a couple beers with a friend summer of 2011 and he just shot the "hey you wont drive us to Pats training camp tomorrow" so naturally we went. I think we went to specifically see Ochocinco when he got traded. Then saw second year Rob hit the field, when I say he was a big 6'6 265 I mean it. I forget who the TE was we had in camp who was listed at the same size and Gronk was just bigger, I cant explain it. Ran routes like a swan. Best 12th round pick in Fantasy Football history that season.


Happy Memorial Day everyone! Great to comeback here after all these years and still see this community going strong.

 

[1960Pats]

I honestly think to this day that even Patriot fans UNDERRATE Rob Gronkowski. He truly was one of the greatest to ever suit it up, and consider the fact that he spent just as much time on the operating table as he did the football field, makes it even more incredible. Truly in my unicorns of athletes in my lifetime.

Hernandez was different on the field. I think he was 20 years old his second game and put up 5 or 6 for over 100 and Gronk wouldn't even be allowed to see the field because he didn't know the playbook lol.

Fun story about Rob, well kind of. I remember having a couple beers with a friend summer of 2011 and he just shot the "hey you wont drive us to Pats training camp tomorrow" so naturally we went. I think we went to specifically see Ochocinco when he got traded. Then saw second year Rob hit the field, when I say he was a big 6'6 265 I mean it. I forget who the TE was we had in camp who was listed at the same size and Gronk was just bigger, I cant explain it. Ran routes like a swan. Best 12th round pick in Fantasy Football history that season.


Happy Memorial Day everyone! Great to comeback here after all these years and still see this community going strong.

I recently watched the 2014 America's Game video and one of the clips showed Gronk hugging some player who was much shorter. When I saw who that player was it was Tom Brady. I actually thought at the time that Gronk seemed much taller than Tom than an inch or two.

When Gronk was on the field he was miles ahead of any other TE. He ran like a Mack truck, blocked like a steamroller and had great hands. From all I've heard he had a great football IQ also and the fact that he was so much fun made him even more enjoyable.

Off the field Gronk spent a few years doing a clinic in my former city for Pop Warner. I didn't go but many of the people I met who did raved about what a quality person he was.

 

[jmt57]

I didn't have particularly high hopes for Antonio Brown because he had so much baggage.
It seemed inevitable that it would end badly with him, and soon.

To me Josh Gordon was a different story. Yes, he liked to drink and smoke, but I just had the feeling that he was going to stay on the straight and narrow this time. Unlike other veteran receivers like Joey Galloway or Ocho Cinco, Gordon 'got it' right away in terms of understanding the New England offense.

He had the knee injury and the Pats immediately waived him, which at the time seemed to be an odd overreaction. The team must have known that he failed another drug test (or was back to partaking, and would inevitably fail a test) because he was suspended soon after.

 

[sb1]

Outside of this era but... what if Robert Edwards didn't play in that flag football game on the beach.
Now that's a butterfly effect. Edwards won’t have that major knee injury and turns into a top back.. Pats still play at a high level... maybe Pete doesn't get fired... BB never comes to NE... TB12 is drafted elsewhere...Drew stays... who knows what the NFL would look like

 

[Nehalem]

Put it all together for the biggest what if of all...what if AB AND Gordon panned out in 2019? With that defense, and Brady throwing to Edelman, Brown, Gordon and James White, we'd be talking about another push for an undefeated season.

Also the Pats draft AJ Brown instead of N'Keal Harry.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Outside of this era but... what if Robert Edwards didn't play in that flag football game on the beach.
Now that's a butterfly effect. Edwards have that major knee injury and turns into a top back.. Pats still play at a high level... maybe Pete doesn't get fired... BB never comes to NE... TB12 is drafted elsewhere...Drew stays... who knows what the NFL would look like

Boring.

Rams would have their little dynasty.

Tom would have made it somewhere else if he didn't get hurt, but I don't know about titles, for all the things Belichick is criticized for, he did things amazing, innovative and obviously extremely effective.

 

[1960Pats]

Boring.

Rams would have their little dynasty.

Tom would have made it somewhere else if he didn't get hurt, but I don't know about titles, for all the things Belichick is criticized for, he did things amazing, innovative and obviously extremely effective.

What I think made Brady and Bill so great together was that Brady had immense respect for authority and he ended up with a total authoritarian like Belichick. There was also the fact that Bill's strength was defense and Tom was offense. It was the perfect storm.

 

[1960Pats]

What if the Pats moved to Hartford? What could have happened?

Some fans would have had less travel time and some more, but other than that I'm not sure if much would have changed.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Pats are hosting Denver in the 1997 AFCCG had they not had injuries.

Jets don’t win the division or make the AFCCG in 1998 without Curtis Martin. Pats go 11-5 and win the division with Martin and Bledsoe not injuring hie finger.

Pete Carroll doesn’t get fired in 1999 had Robert Edwards not played flag football. Wasn’t that dynamic of a back, but he’d be just enough to get them to 9-7 or even 10-6. They still had a chance to go 11-5 without him and that 1999 team was by far their worst of the Carroll era.

BB is coaching elsewhere.

Pats are playing at home in Divisional Round in 2005 had Bruschi not had a stroke and Ty Law not chasing money. They may have been the first team to 3 peat.

Pats hold off Indy in 2006 had they worked out a deal with Branch like Samuel promising not to franchise tag him and Rodney Harrison not injured.

Pats beat NY in SB42 with Colvin and Morris playing. Those were underrated loses. Hard to believe NY made it without Shockey.

Pats easily win in 2008 had Brady not tore his ACL.

Pats make it to the Super Bowl in 2010 with Moss. BB should’ve ignored Moss’s contract unless he quit on the team. Tom also should’ve spoken to Moss.

Pats make it to the Super Bowl in 2012 had Bill not put Gronk in on a meaningless extra point kick up big late in that 4th against the Colts. This was by far worse than the Butler decision.

2015 Broncos don’t win the Super Bowl had NE signed Steve Smith or Emmanuel Sanders in 2014.

Pats barely get by the Eagles with Butler. Eric Rowe was responsible for 10 points on the first 2 drives alone.

They are the #2 seed at worst with AB in 2019.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

BB is coaching elsewhere.

...and I'm afraid we're still sitting on zero Super Bowl wins.

Pats are playing at home in Divisional Round in 2005 had Bruschi not had a stroke and Ty Law not chasing money. They may have been the first team to 3 peat.

This team unfortunately lacked the drive and focus to win a title. Intangibles and team chemistry were way below title intensity.

Pats hold off Indy in 2006 had they worked out a deal with Branch like Samuel promising not to franchise tag him and Rodney Harrison not injured.

It was suicidal. Inflexibility by Belichick this time did them in. Amazing that we could have won twelve titles, but guys, Bill & Bob ain't never going to change. Bob Dylan ain't in their repertoire.

Pats beat NY in SB42 with Colvin and Morris playing. Those were underrated loses. Hard to believe NY made it without Shockey.

A factor along with Tom's injured ankle, but the focus was just way off coming out flat as a pancake in two Super Bowls against Bill's beloved inferior Giants. Both of those were such miserable title games to sit through with the big "L" result seeming inevitable.

Pats make it to the Super Bowl in 2012 had Bill not put Gronk in on a meaningless extra point kick up big late in that 4th against the Colts. This was by far worse than the Butler decision.

Wow, some dunderhead choices, including same thing putting in Seymour on offense. It works for some guys but for others it does NOT.

Pats barely get by the Eagles with Butler. Eric Rowe was responsible for 10 points on the first 2 drives alone.

The optics were as bad as the strategy. Many - many - times the priority for Belichick was not winning the title, but doing things his way. Well, it worked out six times which is better than zero.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

What if the Pats moved to Hartford? What could have happened?

Some fans would have had less travel time and some more, but other than that I'm not sure if much would have changed.

Earth shaking consequences, including lame duck seasons at dead end Foxborough, and a virtually New York team.

But Bob doing this appears to be the only way to get Finneran's attention. Have to give Tagliabue a little credit. Not Goodell, who was just doing what he was told to do.

Did we ever consider the Whalers our team after they went down there? No.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I didn't have particularly high hopes for Antonio Brown because he had so much baggage.
It seemed inevitable that it would end badly with him, and soon.

While we're on the subject of What-If's, I'm compelled to mention the Celtics.

If Red didn't screw up the Silas contract, would he still have been able to draft Larry Bird?

More recently, Danny Ainge suddenly acquired the Midas Touch when buddy McHale opened the door for acquiring KG.

Standard procedure for most franchises would and should have yielded at least three titles from that group.

Alas, right after winning in '08 Danny sabotaged their future irreparably by ignoring Tom Heinsohn, Red's heir apparent as the most perceptive and smartest basketball mind on the planet, fiddled and diddled and let James Posey take off and get paid in New Orleans. The team chemistry, focus, and defensive superiority went with him.

I flatly stated right away, "There will be no more titles." Sadly, I was right.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This team unfortunately lacked the drive and focus to win a title. Intangibles and team chemistry were way below title intensity.

Denver was a matchup nightmare with them for whatever reason. Got handled by them again in 2006. Pittsburgh beat Denver with ease on the road a week later in the 2005 AFCCG. Very bizarre how that works.

It was suicidal. Inflexibility by Belichick this time did them in. Amazing that we could have won twelve titles, but guys, Bill & Bob ain't never going to change. Bob Dylan ain't in their repertoire.

There was no turning back when Branch was getting fined as much as he would've made that season in 2006. Bill should've approached him and asked if they waive the fines and remove any tag after 2006 to get him to come back. If Branch didn't agree, then trade him. Going for a Super Bowl is more important to me than trading away an asset for an unknown.

A factor along with Tom's injured ankle, but the focus was just way off coming out flat as a pancake in two Super Bowls against Bill's beloved inferior Giants. Both of those were such miserable title games to sit through with the big "L" result seeming inevitable.

Had Tom not gotten injured, that probably helps. Many times during the game he conceded to the rush because he couldn't move.

Wow, some dunderhead choices, including same thing putting in Seymour on offense. It works for some guys but for others it does NOT.

I believe this was the beginning of the end of the relationship between Gronk/his family and BB/Patriots.

 

[Kargetina]

Had the Pats never won a SB after the benching of Butler, the sour taste would have stayed forever, but winning a SB the very next year, just left some bitterness.

Would the Pats have won the next year, if they beat the Eagles? Who knows? Who knows whether Brady, Edelman and Gronk would have the same tenacity and indignation they had during the year, who knows what the draft looks like with a win, who knows how the other teams play against a team in search for a three peat?

On one hand, yes they lost to Foles, but the following season that same Foles beat the Texans 32-30 in week 16 to hand us a bye. The Texans were 10-1 in the last 11 coming into that game and won 20-3 in week 17.

Considering how many things have to go right for ONE Super Bowl, winning six is more than enough for one lifetime even with all the what if's. It’s enough to remember that Dee Ford having his foot over the line of scrimmage where his placement didn’t affect the play one bit, was the difference between the Pats going to the SB and winning it, and the Chiefs going to the SB. There are dozens of such instances in any individual SB run.

I will be grateful forever for the 20 years of dominance and every single player and coach who contributed to them.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Denver was a matchup nightmare with them for whatever reason. Got handled by them again in 2006. Pittsburgh beat Denver with ease on the road a week later in the 2005 AFCCG. Very bizarre how that works.

The Patriots have always had terrible trouble in Denver. Including an Orange Bowl-like 20 year winless drought. The typical problems the Patriots experienced this century, including in Miami, were falsely attributed by media and local fans to 'special' or 'different' circumstances during the Brady/Belichick era, when in fact they have always been there including for the very many excellent, winning teams during its first four decades of existence, which said media and fans like to pretend never existed.

Belichick's approach was to treat each game the same. They did not fly out to Colorado to get assimilated to the altitude and remove the immediate travel factor from game preparation and effectiveness. I obviously am in total disagreement, but I have the advantage of over a half century of watching, following and reading about sports as opposed to being in the locker room on a payroll with ownership, media and the rest of the world dissecting every decision I made.

 

[1960Pats]

Earth shaking consequences, including lame duck seasons at dead end Foxborough, and a virtually New York team.

But Bob doing this appears to be the only way to get Finneran's attention. Have to give Tagliabue a little credit. Not Goodell, who was just doing what he was told to do.

Did we ever consider the Whalers our team after they went down there? No.

I had a horrible experience with my wife and cousins at a game in the 70's. Bob cleaned up that kind of stuff.