Are there veterans who don't fit in as part of the future?

[Wozzy]

Reiss using "probably safe" doesn't really dispute that poster's questioning whether "his position is as solid as a lot of people think"

I think Reiss knows the Patriots brass overall opinion of Douglas and unless he becomes a disgruntled jerk he is a lock.

 

[Ring 6]

You’re probably right, I wasn’t aware he was one of. Rabel’s guys, and I know he can play 3 OL positions, so he could very well end up sticking.

How is he “one of Vrabels guys”? He didn’t play for him before, we are paying him 1.5 mill with 150k signing bonus and he has played 17 games in the last 3 years and 150 snaps in the last 2 including ONE last year.
I’d say he has less than a 2% chance to make the roster.

 

[Ring 6]

Tavai is the anti "Patriot Way" player and needs to go. Vrabel has kept his word and gotten rid of most of the "entitled" players with only him and Bourne left. If he makes the team, this will be his last season as his cap hit is more favorable next season.

Tavai was pissed off that fend booed. That isn’t anti anything. He’s been a solid teammate and decent player as long as he’s been here. People just want to cry because they think they as fans are above the players.

 

[DaBruinz]

Plenty of them:

Bourne WR-Could end up in Dallas for 5th.

Lowe-He sucks, period. Get rid of him and keep Wallace as the swing tackle.

Sow-He’s on the bubble.

Schweitzer- Also on the bubble

Tavai-Not sure whether Vrabel will keep him around

Pharms-Bubble

Hawkins-Epps could end up with his spot.

Lowe is no worse than Dan Moore. The guy who just got a mega deal in free agency. He's also had garbage coaching for 3 years and still managed to improve each year. I know there are people on here who don't want to hear that, but it's fact.

Schweitzer was just brought in by Vrabel. He's the new James Ferentz, though he's better.

Epps sucks as bad as Hawkins. NEITHER of them are guaranteed a spot. Which is why 2 UDFA Safeties and a Draft pick were brought in.

Sow is in the bubble. So are Layden Robinson and Tyrese Robinson.

Ben Brown and Demontray Jacobs are definitely not locks despite being brought back.

Terrell Jennings better hope he's only renting because he's on the outside looking in.

Tyrone Wheatley, Truman Jones, Monty Rice, and Isaaih Bolden are also on the bubble.

 

[dliverey44]

I've wondered how well Anfernee Jennings fits. Vrabel may want one run defender on the roster but I think Chaisson and Swinson may have the advantage in Vrabel's attacking defense.

Landry is pretty good vs the run. Jennings and Booty Became my binkies after they were drafted and I am really pulling for them but understand that with as much competition there is now in camp will make the overall talent better. I have resigned myself to accept them not making the team if they are unable to take the next step.

 

[BobDigital]

Bournes cap hit is mostly all salary and pregame bonus. A post June cut saves 6 mil on the 2025 cap.

Stevenson cant be fumbling, bumbling and stumbling. A trade - if somebody bites - saves a ton of money compared to his dead money.

Both players need to sleep with 1 eye open.

I already have Bourne gone. Hopefully traded even if just for a 7th but I doubt it. He is an easy way to free up 12m in cap over the next 2 years when they badly need it. He's the easier cash to save. And while I'm unsure about Chism being a big part of the offense this year, but I like what I see. I'm a believer. If he shows in preseason like I think he might, I don't think they can try to stash him on the PS.

I know the coaches like Douglas, but if it comes down to him and Chism and Chism shows he has the upside we think he might.... Douglas may have to walk.

Before I said it will be very hard for this team to cut Polk if he shows any signs of life. That was before Chism and Williams. Who i think will both be around here for a while. Polk now needs to show more than signs of life to make it. Same for Baker. They need more than promise of better times ahead. They need results. Cause why would we cut proven dependable cheap options like Douglas and Boutte over them if they don't?

 

[Thelonious]

I am sure there are such players. I do wish Vrabel et al would give them a chance to compete for a spot on the team rather than simply dumping them because of some affiliation with past versions of the team or with a past regime. That seems foolish and irresponsible and a little petty to me, particularly in the case of Andrews. There is a point at which "tough guy" schtick just transitions into being a garden variety *******. People like Vrabel can be prone to just this sort of transgression. We'll see.

 

[Triumph]

I already have Bourne gone. Hopefully traded even if just for a 7th but I doubt it. He is an easy way to free up 12m in cap over the next 2 years when they badly need it. He's the easier cash to save. And while I'm unsure about Chism being a big part of the offense this year, but I like what I see. I'm a believer. If he shows in preseason like I think he might, I don't think they can try to stash him on the PS.

Isnt the 2026 draft supposed to be blockbuster? Supposedly a lot of QBs are coming out likely pushing some blue chip players down the board. The Pats already have the most picks (10) of any franchise. So, trading Bourne for 7th could make a lot of sense.

I find it interesting that the Pats have been shopping WR in the NW 2 years in succession. Polk came from U of Wash and now Williams played at Wash State and Chism at E Wash. To me it says that Wolf and Groh lobbied for these picks and were very much in control of the 2025 draft.

I know the coaches like Douglas, but if it comes down to him and Chism and Chism shows he has the upside we think he might.... Douglas may have to walk.

Pop is catching the ball at a 76% catch rate. Thats money. Hes only entering year # 3 and on his 3rd OC. I believe he has got 1 more season.

Before I said it will be very hard for this team to cut Polk if he shows any signs of life. That was before Chism and Williams. Who i think will both be around here for a while. Polk now needs to show more than signs of life to make it. Same for Baker. They need more than promise of better times ahead. They need results. Cause why would we cut proven dependable cheap options like Douglas and Boutte over them if they don't?

Polk is reborn. There is still hope for him and Boutte. WR roster cut downs are going to be hard. Hollins is probably a lock.

 

[stinkypete]

Rham could be a surprise departure, leaving Gibson, Henderson, and Larison as the RB roster.

I think it’s most likely he stays but I would not be shocked if he’s not on team when the season opens.

With that contract and his production, I see him as out as of 2026.

 

[Headcase]

Isn't his cap hit bearable if they let him go after this season?

Michael Onwenu Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Michael Onwenu contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Next year there looks like there would be about a 10million net gain if they move on from him.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

"Releasing" Onwenu would never happen this year. There's no point. His cap number is $21M. That's made up of $7.5M signing bonus proration that's already paid and will hit our cap this year no matter what, $12M of fully guaranteed salary, $500K of offseason workout bonuses that he's probably going to earn by showing up, and $1M in per game roster bonuses. If you cut him (after he shows up for the workouts) you have to pay him all of that except the per game roster bonuses. You'd take on a dead money charge for the $12M salary, $7.5M bonus amortization and, if before June 1st also next year's $7.5M bonus amortization for a net cap loss of $6M. After June 1st, next year's amortization is deferred until next year so you save $1.5M, net. But same amount of dead money either way.

What's a more practical discussion would be, something like the team converting $6M of his guaranteed salary to signing bonus to facilitate a post June 1st trade to another team. The cap implications for us of that trade would be:

Dead money of $11M this year - $7.5M from his old signing bonus amortization and $3M from the conversion to bonus of half this year's salary, assuming he earns his $500K workout bonus too. Compared to a current cap number of $21M, that's net savings of $10M.

Dead money of $10.5M again next year for the same components minus the workout bonus. Cap hit right now projects to be $25M so savings of $15M.

For his new team, they'd be getting him on essentially a 1 year deal for $6M with per game roster bonuses up to $7M. That's a fair price for someone who needs OL help. Next year's $16M salary is fully non guaranteed so he'd be a cut candidate for them, just a 1 year rental really.

If Onwenu seems like an iffy character guy and multiple young interior OL step up, I could see them exploring a trade like this to save some money on the deal and recoup a minor asset. It probably has to mean Wallace shows well in RG time and both Robinson/Sow look decent enough too.

 

[RobertWeathers]

"Releasing" Onwenu would never happen this year. There's no point. His cap number is $21M. That's made up of $7.5M signing bonus proration that's already paid and will hit our cap this year no matter what, $12M of fully guaranteed salary, $500K of offseason workout bonuses that he's probably going to earn by showing up, and $1M in per game roster bonuses. If you cut him (after he shows up for the workouts) you have to pay him all of that except the per game roster bonuses. You'd take on a dead money charge for the $12M salary, $7.5M bonus amortization and, if before June 1st also next year's $7.5M bonus amortization for a net cap loss of $6M. After June 1st, next year's amortization is deferred until next year so you save $1.5M, net. But same amount of dead money either way.

What's a more practical discussion would be, something like the team converting $6M of his guaranteed salary to signing bonus to facilitate a post June 1st trade to another team. The cap implications for us of that trade would be:

Dead money of $11M this year - $7.5M from his old signing bonus amortization and $3M from the conversion to bonus of half this year's salary, assuming he earns his $500K workout bonus too. Compared to a current cap number of $21M, that's net savings of $10M.

Dead money of $10.5M again next year for the same components minus the workout bonus. Cap hit right now projects to be $25M so savings of $15M.

For his new team, they'd be getting him on essentially a 1 year deal for $6M with per game roster bonuses up to $7M. That's a fair price for someone who needs OL help. Next year's $16M salary is fully non guaranteed so he'd be a cut candidate for them, just a 1 year rental really.

If Onwenu seems like an iffy character guy and multiple young interior OL step up, I could see them exploring a trade like this to save some money on the deal and recoup a minor asset. It probably has to mean Wallace shows well in RG time and both Robinson/Sow look decent enough too.

Yep.

They are currently have ~$67m in cap space.

With that said if they are going to accelerate a cap charge on a player (s) who aren't a fit culturally or a system fit, this is is the year to do it.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Michael Onwenu Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Michael Onwenu contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Next year there looks like there would be about a 10million net gain if they move on from him.

I think you might be reading the numbers incorrectly. Onwenu's cap hit in 2026 is $25M, but if he is released the cap hit is $7.5M with a $17.5M savings, not a $10M net gain. It is a $17.5M net gain in 2026 off the cap hit which is different than cash hit.

 

[Real fan 02]

I know everyone hates Tavai for calling out the fans but who's knocking him off the roster? Gibbens, Spillane, and Ellis?

I love the way spillane plays... he's a starter. Tavai will make the roster he'll likely be in the rotation or possibly starting next to spillane.

 

[Real fan 02]

If you're a veteran, you better outplay the rookies. It's a new regime, the tie always goes to the rookie. Lowe, Sow, Epps, Bourne, Jennings, Bradbury, and Hollins all should be playing like they belong here. They don't get training wheels.

I've been told Hollins is a lock though?? So he actually has to outplay someone wow!

 

[Real fan 02]

Lowe is no worse than Dan Moore. The guy who just got a mega deal in free agency. He's also had garbage coaching for 3 years and still managed to improve each year. I know there are people on here who don't want to hear that, but it's fact.

Schweitzer was just brought in by Vrabel. He's the new James Ferentz, though he's better.

Epps sucks as bad as Hawkins. NEITHER of them are guaranteed a spot. Which is why 2 UDFA Safeties and a Draft pick were brought in.

Sow is in the bubble. So are Layden Robinson and Tyrese Robinson.

Ben Brown and Demontray Jacobs are definitely not locks despite being brought back.

Terrell Jennings better hope he's only renting because he's on the outside looking in.

Tyrone Wheatley, Truman Jones, Monty Rice, and Isaaih Bolden are also on the bubble.

Wheatley isn't on the Patriots roster, he plays for the falcons.

 

[Lansdowne]

This is going out there, but I wonder about Pop. If they watch Maye's interceptions, and they see the INT that targeted Pop against the Rams.....what do they think about that play? Regardless of the route run, he should be looking for the ball while running through a hole in a zone.

Historically Josh has liked slot guys that can read and find holes in the middle of the field, get open and make yourself available. Pop can be explosive, but I'm just not sure if he is going to be a piece that Josh loves as much as the fans do.

I guess it doesn't mean he is going to be gone, but I'm not sure if his position is as solid as a lot of people think.

I've wondered this too. How much of a fit Pop is for the offense Josh wants to run. Diggs and Chism are a couple of options for the slot role if Pop is moved.

 

[Real fan 02]

I've wondered this too. How much of a fit Pop is for the offense Josh wants to run. Diggs and Chism are a couple of options for the slot role if Pop is moved.

 

[Thelonious]

Instead of ditching players because the new regime didn't draft them or because they have some reason to speculate they might be a problem or might hurt some other player's tender feelings, they should - absent some clear merit-based reason to let them go - let these players compete with the new acquisitions for a spot on the roster. Andrews should have had a chance to compete, certainly, as in my view should Milton. Why indulge in speculation as to what they might have left or how they might develop? Demonstrated merit is a far more secure and responsible basis for retaining players or letting them go than the sort of tough guy posturing to which Vrabel at al seem all too prone. May the demonstrably best man win.

As for trading players, i think that option is moot - more empty posturing. Is any player on this roster concerning whom such an option might be considered really worth a damn on the trade market? This is still a weak roster, bereft of meaningful depth: why screw around? Let them compete. IF they demonstrate emprically that they are worth keeping, keep them. If not, let'em go - on a responsible basis.

 

[Headcase]

I think you might be reading the numbers incorrectly. Onwenu's cap hit in 2026 is $25M, but if he is released the cap hit is $7.5M with a $17.5M savings, not a $10M net gain. It is a $17.5M net gain in 2026 off the cap hit which is different than cash hit.

Fair enough, that is why I provide the data, not just interpret it!