Mason Graham vs Abdul Carter

[One-If-By-Sea]

You see I disagree. We're not in a position to draft for need. We're not drafting for 2025, we're drafting for 2025-2029/30. Or at least we should be.

I am one of the strongest advocates for BPA on the Board. I NEVER draft for need. But, LOL, I don't think there is only one BPA for each draft slot. There will be a couple or more BPAs at each draft slot to chose from.

For example, I think Carter and Graham are both candidates for the #4 draft slot. I call them both BPAs. I am guessing that Carter will be ranked higher than Graham by more draft experts, but I still like Graham. I do not think drafting Graham at #4 is drafting for need.

Another example, was skipping the drafting of McConkey to draft Polk and Baker. If you read my comments at the time, I thought, after the trade down, that we should have drafted Kool-aid, Dejean, or Fiske. Some posters will argue to pick McConkey which I agree with. After the trade down I wanted Kool-aid, Dejean, or Fiske, and I consider all three BPA even though there are three BPAs on my list.

So I do not think ignoring one of multiple possible BPAs as drafting for need. I think picking a WR who was predicted a lot lower instead of three much more highly graded defensive players as being drafting for need. I think Wallace and Baker were draft picks for need as well. Robinson might have been one of many BPAs or a need pick - I am not sure. Robinson strikes me as a reasonable pick, with the grading about right for that position.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I am one of the strongest advocates for BPA on the Board. I NEVER draft for need. But, LOL, I don't think there is only one BPA for each draft slot. There will be a couple or more BPAs at each draft slot to chose from.

For example, I think Carter and Graham are both candidates for the #4 draft slot. I call them both BPAs. I am guessing that Carter will be ranked higher than Graham by more draft experts, but I still like Graham. I do not think drafting Graham at #4 is drafting for need.

Another example, was skipping the drafting of McConkey to draft Polk and Baker. If you read my comments at the time, I thought, after the trade down, that we should have drafted Kool-aid, Dejean, or Fiske. Some posters will argue to pick McConkey which I agree with. After the trade down I wanted Kool-aid, Dejean, or Fiske, and I consider all three BPA even though there are three BPAs on my list.

So I do not think ignoring one of multiple possible BPAs as drafting for need. I think picking a WR who was predicted a lot lower instead of three much more highly graded defensive players as being drafting for need. I think Wallace and Baker were draft picks for need as well. Robinson might have been one of many BPAs or a need pick - I am not sure. Robinson strikes me as a reasonable pick, with the grading about right for that position.

dejean or koolaid would have been amazing picks

 

[manxman2601]

I am one of the strongest advocates for BPA on the Board. I NEVER draft for need. But, LOL, I don't think there is only one BPA for each draft slot. There will be a couple or more BPAs at each draft slot to chose from.

For example, I think Carter and Graham are both candidates for the #4 draft slot. I call them both BPAs. I am guessing that Carter will be ranked higher than Graham by more draft experts, but I still like Graham. I do not think drafting Graham at #4 is drafting for need.

Another example, was skipping the drafting of McConkey to draft Polk and Baker. If you read my comments at the time, I thought, after the trade down, that we should have drafted Kool-aid, Dejean, or Fiske. Some posters will argue to pick McConkey which I agree with. After the trade down I wanted Kool-aid, Dejean, or Fiske, and I consider all three BPA even though there are three BPAs on my list.

So I do not think ignoring one of multiple possible BPAs as drafting for need. I think picking a WR who was predicted a lot lower instead of three much more highly graded defensive players as being drafting for need. I think Wallace and Baker were draft picks for need as well. Robinson might have been one of many BPAs or a need pick - I am not sure. Robinson strikes me as a reasonable pick, with the grading about right for that position.

My argument is this. If you're picking in the 3rd round, you're unlikely to find a day 1 starter at any of the key positions (QB, CB, DE, DT, OT, WR) but what if a day one starting centre is sat there and your current starting centre is in the last year of his contract. Surely that is a BPA isn't it?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

My argument is this. If you're picking in the 3rd round, you're unlikely to find a day 1 starter at any of the key positions (QB, CB, DE, DT, OT, WR) but what if a day one starting centre is sat there and your current starting centre is in the last year of his contract. Surely that is a BPA isn't it?

Yes, based on the player's rating. OC, RB, OG, LB, and FS are all 3rd round possibilities as they are not considered key positions like DE, OT, WR, QB, CB, and sometimes TE. If a Day 1 guy is sitting there, most likely he is a BPA unless there is an injury or attitude concern. We all know how Jack Jones turned out, great talent, lousy attitude and, unsurprisingly, he had a down year at the Raiders.

The BPA and drafting for need is a gray line - it is not always clear like I noted with Robinson in my last post. Rating Polk and Baker over McConkey is a very worrying sign because that means the Pats scouts or management completely botched the prospect's ratings. Most likely incorrect ratings will continue if the personnel do not change. Choosing a WR over much higher defensively rated players, Polk over Kool-aid or Dejean or Fiske, is drafting for "need" not BPA in my opinion, and I oppose drafting for "need" like in that case.

 

[Mankok]

I have lived in Ohio for years (go Bucks) and have keenly watched many Big10 games. Ohio St has continually lost to Michigan because they can’t run the ball against them. Mason Graham and his partner Grant have been like running into a brick wall. Carter is a converted linebacker made this year into a pass rushing lightweight DE. There is no way he can hold the edge against NFL lineman. I am afraid he could end up a pass rush specialist ala a better version of Frank Clark. No way he is a better choice than Graham.

Tyler Warren is my favorite player in this draft after pick #10. He is an absolute can’t miss prospect.

 

[manxman2601]

Just been watching Daniel Jeremiah om Instagram and he calls Abdul Carter the best player in the draft. I wouldn't count on Hunter going before him.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I go either way on Carter v Graham. I am a little concerned that Carter is a little undersized and relies on his speed. Graham strikes me as a high floor, high ceiling prospect. Carter's ceiling might be higher but I'm concerned about how high his floor is. We need to absolutely nail this pick and Graham feels safer, if a little less exciting.

When you factor in having to operate as though Barmore won’t be available I think Graham gets the nod.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You see I disagree. We're not in a position to draft for need. We're not drafting for 2025, we're drafting for 2025-2029/30. Or at least we should be.

I agree with this completely. You draft the best players, but when they are tied need breaks the tie.

 

[Aussie Patriot]

 

[Huckleberry1]

So here's a question for you:

1. Abdul Carter + Walter Nolen/Deone Walker/Derrick Harmon (one of)
2. Mason Graham + Princely Umanmielen

Which is your preferred draft haul?

#2 every time.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You can never have enough.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Just been watching Daniel Jeremiah om Instagram and he calls Abdul Carter the best player in the draft. I wouldn't count on Higgins going before him.

Travis Hunter?

 

[manxman2601]

Travis Hunter?

For some reason I keep calling him Higgins. Have no idea why. Thanks, will fix.

 

[Aussie Patriot]

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

For some reason I keep calling him Higgins. Have no idea why. Thanks, will fix.

I noticed it before but didn't say anything. Really doesn't matter.

 

[manxman2601]

I think you'd have to consider T-Mac and I'd add Malaki Starks because he's the complete safety with excellent ball skills. And maybe consider swapping Jalon Walker with Mike Green although I need to do more work on Walker. One interesting thing on Walker is that PFF have dropped him to mid round two and I'm really not sure why.

 

[manxman2601]

This is an interesting scenario. If Carter and Hunter are off the board at 4 who would want to trade up for? The obvious candidate is Sanders but the Raiders wouldn't need too and would we do a deal with the Jets?

 

[patsfaninpa]

This is an interesting scenario. If Carter and Hunter are off the board at 4 who would want to trade up for? The obvious candidate is Sanders but the Raiders wouldn't need too and would we do a deal with the Jets?

Would Saints trade up from 10?

 

[Steve102]

We really have to go BPA. We need help everywhere. If there’s somebody they like, just pick him. Edge, T, WR, CB, LB or S. We need all of em.

That's really the debate, isn't it. Who's the better player?

 

[manxman2601]

I was thinking about this debate last night and I finally ended up putting Carter/Hunter above Graham based upon a thought experiment that I want to run by you.

Imagine all three players play up to their full potential (for this thought experiment I'm imagining Hunter as a full time CB who gets 15-20 snaps per game on offense).

If all three players play to their full potential, in five years time are you more likely too:

1. Having drafted Mason Graham be disappointed watching Carter/Hunter's production on other teams.

2. Having drafted Carter/Hunter be disappointed watching Graham's production on other teams.

For me it's clearly number one which is why I'm taking both before Graham. Now that doesn't mean I've soured on Graham because I haven't, I'd be very happy if he was the pick at 4. But whereas before I had viewed all three equally, I now have some clear space between Carter/Hunter and Graham.