Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

[patsfanfromoversea]

Who do we like for OC?
Lafluer, Caley?
Kubiak?
We should get a big name for sure,

caley
and pls bring some o-line coach from the rams with him as they have done a good job getting a lot out of their players, look at Dotson who has rarely been so good as with the rams, or Limmer a mid rd pick laying well.

And bring in every scout of the rams, they draft extremely well

 

[Huckleberry1]

Who do we like for OC?
Lafluer, Caley?
Kubiak?
We should get a big name for sure,

I’m fine with any of those 3. I also have a great deal of faith that Vrabel will surround himself with really good coaches and coordinators.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Zo has jumped off the Josh McDaniels bandwagon too. Another indicator.

I think MacDaniels would already have been named if that’s who Vrabel really wanted.

 

[upstater1]

No He Wasn't.

Polk was the consensus 57th rated player, slated to go late 2nd and early 3rd round in the mock drafts.

McConkey was a consensus 1st round pick, although late 1st round.

 

[Grogan14]

No He Wasn't.

1000% Polk was not considered a steal. He was slated for bottom of 2nd or 3rd round

He did however steal money from the patriots last year

 

[Real fan 02]

The OL coaches gotta go - GOT TO GO - next.

Bengals announce hiring of Patriots offensive line coach Scott Peters

Peters and assistant Michael McCarthy will not return to New England.

www.patspulpit.com

 

[Huckleberry1]

1000% Polk was not considered a steal. He was slated for bottom of 2nd or 3rd round

He did however steal money from the patriots last year

And if you go look at the rest of those who were drafted after the first round last year you will find that the vast majority didn’t contribute much either. You draft players to develop them, Mayo’s coaching staff didn’t get anything out of anyone. Like the rest of the 2024 rookies I will give them another year to show some promise, and 2 for most of them to see if they can develop into good players for them.

 

[Real fan 02]

Zo has jumped off the Josh McDaniels bandwagon too. Another indicator.

Possibly.. personally I wouldn't read to much into it.. they from my understanding have a great relationship and mutual respect for one another. There are plenty of coaches hired that never worked together before. I can't really think of another OC that would make sense for Drake other than Josh right now.

 

[Real fan 02]

caley
and pls bring some o-line coach from the rams with him as they have done a good job getting a lot out of their players, look at Dotson who has rarely been so good as with the rams, or Limmer a mid rd pick laying well.

And bring in every scout of the rams, they draft extremely well

You make a very compelling case.. Caley was mentioned as the top choice last season and was offered a lucrative deal to be the OC.. if Josh doesn't return my hope would be Caley.. he'd continue the WC offense that Drake is familiar with and sprinkle some of that Mcvay in as well.

 

[patfanken]

Right on the money.

Right on the money.

This is more about responding to the comment you agreed with,

There have always been 2 schools of thought about the pros and cons of being in play flexible or the benefits of specific route running.
In other words, there are those who believe that instead of making a play so complicated and hoping both the QB and receiver are on the same page, and those who believe that if the QB and receiver run the exact route over and over again, the execution of the play is more likely to be more consistent. Take Johnny Unitas and Ray Berry. every time the Colts needed a first down throw, they'd throw that 12 yard out to Berry. Everyone knew they were going to do it, but their execution was SO precise that they completed most of the time anyway. Maybe we would get more out of our WR's if they always knew exactly where they were going. They might run their routes quicker and more assurance if they mostly knew where they were going at the snap of the ball, instead of having to read the post-snap defense and figure out where he's supposed to go, on the fly.

Tony Dungy consistent success with his Tampa 2 alignment believing that the more times his players saw the game from the same position the better they would be able to defend it,

I'm not saying one way is better than the other but consistent repetition is a good way to get better. Seems like every year teams go more and more to the "muddle" alignment for the front 7 and it's been very effective across the league. (BTW another BB innovation)
Personally, I believe, because Mayo and most of his WR's are so young, might be better off not using a lot of option route schemes and concentrate on his execution and accuracy in the short term and THEN go to the options stuff once he "knows more of the answers to the test"

 

[Rob0729]

Possibly.. personally I wouldn't read to much into it.. they from my understanding have a great relationship and mutual respect for one another. There are plenty of coaches hired that never worked together before. I can't really think of another OC that would make sense for Drake other than Josh right now.

See, I think Josh doesn't make sense for Josh. As a mentor, he might be great. For a scheme fit to put Drake in the best chance to succeed? Not really. Josh can make his scheme work for Maye, but he cannot make his scheme the best possible scheme for Maye to succeed.

I am sorry other than a lot of speculation around the league and in the media, I see nothing that shows Vrabel is even seriously considering McDaniels as the OC. In fact, I see more evidence that says he isn't seriously under consideration.

 

[Grogan14]

Vrabel’s staff seems to coming together very slowly and in complete secrecy. Vrabel just had a year off, I would have expected he would know his dream staff down to the last detail.
Come on Mike, throw the fans a bone and let us know who you are talking to

 

[Toofy]

The kind of secrecy we have and the fact that stretch is in Rams points to Vrabel raiding the Rams for coaching and scouting talent big time .

But I honestly feel Josh would be a great fit for Maye. He has been twice bit, so he would be ultra careful and probably wiser in terms of how to devise plays to suit to strength of QB and wr.

Spags has been terrific after the Rams stint. It would be a shame if we did not even consider Josh and fail to interview him.

 

[patfanken]

See, I think Josh doesn't make sense for Josh. As a mentor, he might be great. For a scheme fit to put Drake in the best chance to succeed? Not really. Josh can make his scheme work for Maye, but he cannot make his scheme the best possible scheme for Maye to succeed.

I am sorry other than a lot of speculation around the league and in the media, I see nothing that shows Vrabel is even seriously considering McDaniels as the OC. In fact, I see more evidence that says he isn't seriously under consideration.

I think that is really to much of a knee jerk reaction, Rob. Really talented QB's aren't limited to what "system" they are running. The very fact that so-called "systems" aren't that inflexible and rigid that they can't be adjusted to fit a particular QB's skill set.

And another point, Mayes so call skill set might SEEM to fit one "system" or another as of 1/25, but the fact remains (as we should all should know all too well) don't remain static. The good QB's continue to grow as they are in the league and Maye's skill set is not going to be the same 3 years from now.

I think way too much is made about so called system fits. We've seen our offense from the Brady years switch from run heavy to wide open year to year depending on the talent at hand, yet according to some it was always the EP system. which only proves that a SYSTEM is only a very broad description of a certain "style" of offense, and more accurately a certain language used to create plays.

 

[Rob0729]

I think that is really to much of a knee jerk reaction, Rob. Really talented QB's aren't limited to what "system" they are running. The very fact that so-called "systems" aren't that inflexible and rigid that they can't be adjusted to fit a particular QB's skill set.

And another point, Mayes so call skill set might SEEM to fit one "system" or another as of 1/25, but the fact remains (as we should all should know all too well) don't remain static. The good QB's continue to grow as they are in the league and Maye's skill set is not going to be the same 3 years from now.

I think way too much is made about so called system fits. We've seen our offense from the Brady years switch from run heavy to wide open year to year depending on the talent at hand, yet according to some it was always the EP system. which only proves that a SYSTEM is only a very broad description of a certain "style" of offense, and more accurately a certain language used to create plays.

I think you are dismissing the system. And I think that is why McDaniels will not be selected as the OC more than anything else. Vrabel is a WCO guy. As I said before, Breer has said he likes that it is easy for players to learn and execute and it plays fast and wear down defense.

And Brady never changed the system his entire time here. Weis, McDaniels, and O'Brien all ran the same system. How the system was run changed over time, but it isn't like the system changed to another system. They tailored the system to the talent they had. The system best benefitted Brady. So it was never changed.

But Belichick did decide to change the system after Brady left. They scrapped the EP system and adopted the Shanahan WCO the Patricia year. Granted they had no one on staff who ever ran the Shanahan WCO. In fact, they had a guy who never ran any offense running that offense. So it was a mess of an offense.

And good teams build the team around the franchise QB. You don't try to fit him into the system. You build the system around him to best exploit his strength and minimize his weaknesses.

 

[p8ryts]

I think you are dismissing the system. And I think that is why McDaniels will not be selected as the OC more than anything else. Vrabel is a WCO guy. As I said before, Breer has said he likes that it is easy for players to learn and execute and it plays fast and wear down defense.

And Brady never changed the system his entire time here. Weis, McDaniels, and O'Brien all ran the same system. How the system was run changed over time, but it isn't like the system changed to another system. They tailored the system to the talent they had. The system best benefitted Brady. So it was never changed.

But Belichick did decide to change the system after Brady left. They scrapped the EP system and adopted the Shanahan WCO the Patricia year. Granted they had no one on staff who ever ran the Shanahan WCO. In fact, they had a guy who never ran any offense running that offense. So it was a mess of an offense.

And good teams build the team around the franchise QB. You don't try to fit him into the system. You build the system around him to best exploit his strength and minimize his weaknesses.

There was a lot of complaining the previous season about using the outside zone and they were trying to integrate it. Mac thought he knew more than the coaches. Wrong.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

There was a lot of complaining the previous season about using the outside zone and they were trying to integrate it. Mac thought he knew more than the coaches. Wrong.

yeah both knew nothing

 

[Rob0729]

There was a lot of complaining the previous season about using the outside zone and they were trying to integrate it. Mac thought he knew more than the coaches. Wrong.

Let's not put that on Mac. Belichick is not changing the system because a second year QB wants him to change it. Belichick did it because he thought it was the best thing for the team. Plain and simple. I have seen people blame Jonathan Kraft too. But the Krafts are not going to let Belichick make Patricia the OC, which they were clearly against, but then tell him what kind of system Patricia would run.

 

[p8ryts]

Let's not put that on Mac. Belichick is not changing the system because a second year QB wants him to change it. Belichick did it because he thought it was the best thing for the team. Plain and simple. I have seen people blame Jonathan Kraft too. But the Krafts are not going to let Belichick make Patricia the OC, which they were clearly against, but then tell him what kind of system Patricia would run.

I didn't mean they changed because Mac wanted it. He resisted the coaching (IMHO).

 

[Real fan 02]

See, I think Josh doesn't make sense for Josh. As a mentor, he might be great. For a scheme fit to put Drake in the best chance to succeed? Not really. Josh can make his scheme work for Maye, but he cannot make his scheme the best possible scheme for Maye to succeed.

I am sorry other than a lot of speculation around the league and in the media, I see nothing that shows Vrabel is even seriously considering McDaniels as the OC. In fact, I see more evidence that says he isn't seriously under consideration.

You could be right. I was thinking in the other direction. In Josh you'd have a QB whisperer someone who could take Drake to thst next level... someone who would tailor the offense around Drake and his athleticism.. Josh would incorporate the 3rd down back.. the slot WR.. Josh offense with the Patriots was Brady's offense.. when Josh had cam he used cams legs and focused on what cam had left of his athleticism. There are many schemes in the NFL all you need as an OC if the right onenl to fit the QB.