The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[upstater1]

Vrabel feels like a McDermott type HC. A guy who brings you respectability. Will be tough to play against. Defensive HC. Will maybe win a playoff game or two. But not quite good enough to beat the best coaches.

Johnson feels like a slam dunk hire. A guy who will get more out of Maye. And...offensive HC's are the name of the game these days. The Patriots will get to a point where they need to get over the hump in the postseason. And Vrabel doesn't seem like that guy. Johnson does.

But undoubtedly they will go with Vrabel for comfort, familiarity, and because he has coached. I just think it's a poor reason to name him HC. Owner is too sentimental.

Who are all these young guns who win Super Bowls?

I see one. McVay.

The others have lost in the playoffs repeatedly in disappointing fashion.

Shanahan, Taylor, McDaniel, etc.

 

[Simpelton]

I can't be the only person here preferring Flores to either one? Flores is a hardass yes, but that's exactly what we need IMHO. The biggest problem with Mayo is that he couldn't impose discipline. He was knowledgeable and likeable but the team stopped respecting him. I don't get the impression that Flores would have that problem, not if he had the undivided support of ownership.

 

[mgcolby]

If true, that would be a Damn Shame. Ownership first needs to hear what Ben Johnson has to say before they make Yet Again another hasty hiring of a familiar old face.

I think, like most of us here, they need to conduct real interviews with multiple..i.e..legit candidates and if they land on Vrabel fine. But it needs to be a real effort even if Vrabel is the pre-conceived target.

And for the record I definitely lean Vrabel over Johnson, because I am scared the Kraft's might **** this up and he is a known commodity.

 

[mgcolby]

We have had the worst offense in the NFL the past 5 years, the most boring offense in the nfl the past 5 years. We finally find a franchise QB, and this forum wants another defensive minded head coach. Mike Vrabel doesn’t know diddly poo about offense. Who’s going to develop Drake Maye? Who’s going to develop his WRs? There is an offensive genius available for hire who can actually develop our young QB and make our offense watchable again…yet you guys still want to go with the defensive guy.

It’s amazing some people actually want Vrabel over Johnson

Playing devil's advocate here.

What the **** are you talking about about? Why is it that you can't fathom a scenario where Vrabel the HC doesn't coach the offense? Where he, I don't know, hires an offensive coordinator, who in turn hires a guy and says hey it's your job to develop these guys over here that catch footballs that drop out of the air....oh, by this guy who throws footballs into the air. And hey you, you're going to develop the guy who throws footballs into the air. We are going to call you the QB coach and we'll call the other you the Wide Receivers coach.

Again just playing devil's advocate.

 

[PaulThePat]

Ok, so the apparent dream team is Vrabel and McDaniels? Nothing like a good old reset.

Joshing aside (no pun intended), if it is Vrabel the offence better be like a 2025 offence i.e. no 20 points per week ****.

 

[Steve102]

I can't be the only person here preferring Flores to either one? Flores is a hardass yes, but that's exactly what we need IMHO. The biggest problem with Mayo is that he couldn't impose discipline. He was knowledgeable and likeable but the team stopped respecting him. I don't get the impression that Flores would have that problem, not if he had the undivided support of ownership.

I think Flores is 3rd. I think they want Vrabel, but are intrigued by all the buzz around Johnson, but who knows if they actually "want" him. I think if both candidates lay an egg, then they go to Flo.

I am not one of these guys that thinks they need to interview 15 guys. If they want Vrabel and/or they want Johnson, I am good with it. The sooner they can get going, the sooner they can the staff hired and get going on 2025.

 

[Sect140]

To me this goes deeper than Johnson v. Vrabel.

Reportedly, Johnson is going to insist on bringing in his own personnel people - something I very much support - whereas Vrabel would be happy to get the job working with the current people already in place.

I very much prefer the idea of an overhaul.

I’ve heard that Ben Johnson has a connection with Eliot Wolf and Vrabel wants to bring in his own GM, the name has been mentioned on this site.

 

[Love The Drake]

I’ve heard that Ben Johnson has a connection with Eliot Wolf and Vrabel wants to bring in his own GM, the name has been mentioned on this site.

Ryan Cowden he was with him in Tenn.
You know Wolf is pushing for Johnson.
Johnson was hired by Mike Sherman who worked under Ron Wolf and Ben Johnson and Maye both went to NC and Johnson has a connection with Mayes previous coach.
That’s the connection.
Other than Johnson being In BC for a bit,

 

[Sect140]

How many people need to be interviewed for Albert and others to be convinced that the interview process isn’t a sham? If they interview Vrabel and Johnson and they take the Johnson interview seriously. Should we interview four or five other coaches for it to be a serious interview process. I’m just curious.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How many people need to be interviewed for Albert and others to be convinced that the interview process isn’t a sham? If they interview Vrabel and Johnson and they take the Johnson interview seriously. Should we interview four or five other coaches for it to be a serious interview process. I’m just curious.

Breer is calling out nothing new. I get his point. Sadly, this is the process.

I think he is implying adding the facade of "sprinkling" the interviews with men of color throughout the due- diligence process rather than have them take place early. Whatever.

Now these gentlemen have every right to decline the interview they are being offered is a sham.

 

[Nunchucks]

I don't get why people are so confident that Johnson is going to be a good head coach. He is a great offensive coordinator, but that doesn't mean he will be a good head coach.

 

[Sect140]

Ryan Cowden he was with him in Tenn.
You know Wolf is pushing for Johnson.
Johnson was hired by Mike Sherman who worked under Ron Wolf and Ben Johnson and Maye both went to NC and Johnson has a connection with Mayes previous coach.
That’s the connection.
Other than Johnson being In BC for a bit,

That’s the name, thanks. Also good info on the connection.

Seems like a lot of people want Wolf out. Does this change their mind if Johnson would keep Wolf in place? Maybe Johnson says I can work with Wolf and Vrabel says he won’t and wants to bring his own GM in. Maybe that’s what makes Kraft select Johnson.

 

[yukon cornelius]

I don't get why people are so confident that Johnson is going to be a good head coach. He is a great offensive coordinator, but that doesn't mean he will be a good head coach.

this - there's plenty of great offensive/defensive minds that have made lousy HCs.....heck, we know a few well

his interview with Washington is a red flag


and watching the Mcdaniel meltdown in Miami is just another instance of a great strategic mind not translating into a HC skillset......

 

[mike_usagisan]

I don't get why people are so confident that Johnson is going to be a good head coach. He is a great offensive coordinator, but that doesn't mean he will be a good head coach.

I think they mainly want him as OC and assume that he'll hire a DC who can handle that part.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Who are all these young guns who win Super Bowls?

I see one. McVay.

The others have lost in the playoffs repeatedly in disappointing fashion.

Shanahan, Taylor, McDaniel, etc.

Thats really a good point.

It's the older coaches that more often than not win SBs.

Arians
Reid
BB
Kubiak was mid 50s
Coughin
Doug Peterson was 49
Pom Pom was 62
Harbaugh was 50
McCarthy was 48
Payton was 46

Only Tomlin and McVay won SBs from the under 40 crowd.

 

[yukon cornelius]

this - there's plenty of great offensive/defensive minds that have made lousy HCs.....heck, we know a few well

his interview with Washington is a red flag


and watching the Mcdaniel meltdown in Miami is just another instance of a great strategic mind not translating into a HC skillset......

he MIGHT prove to be a great young HC, who knows

but he's already had lousy interviews.....unless he has learned a lot in a short time, and has an amazing interview, I prefer the known commodities right now......this team is not in position to deal with another failure, they are already on year 2 of the future QB's rookie contract.......not even sure they have time for growing pains right now.........and culture/staff to player relationships is one of the big things that needs to improve; that is a Vraebel strength, and at the very least a BJ unknown; based on his Washington interview, it might be one of his weaknesses


give me the known commodity right now

 

[vicspats]

Here’s a ****ed up thought. What are the chances we don’t land either one. Who do we go after then?

Ya imagine , we lose the first overall then this??

 

[Sect140]

Ya imagine , we lose the first overall then this??

Yikes!

 

[upstater1]

I can't be the only person here preferring Flores to either one? Flores is a hardass yes, but that's exactly what we need IMHO. The biggest problem with Mayo is that he couldn't impose discipline. He was knowledgeable and likeable but the team stopped respecting him. I don't get the impression that Flores would have that problem, not if he had the undivided support of ownership.

I agree that Flores is up there with both Vrabel and Johnson, though I can't say I have a preference for Flores.

Of the 3, I believe Flores would have the most success making one unit the best (or close to the best) in football. His defense is really special.

I have more confidence that Vrabel would succeed as a HC of the whole operation because of his Titans experience.

Flores was trending upwards before he was derailed by an idiotic owner.

 

[Real fan 02]

Good lord.

He'd have to gameplan for Henry and Jackson each season. Good luck. .