"Well, Dan Campbell only won 3 games his first season..."

[farn]

Wonder how everyone would feel if Mayo was good with the media and didn't stick his foot in his mouth weekly. Shouldn't be basing decision on how they interact with the media, ie. see BB.

Caring about those interactions is - imo - the most baffling here on this site. When fans cared what BB said to the media, for instance….

Winning matters. Losing sucks. The rest is useless fluff.

Back to the matter at hand : Campbell might NOT be any good. The GM has built an amazing foundation. The OL, in particular, is stellar. Both the OC and DC are having great stretches and both might get a HC gigs this winter.

 

[Ross12]

Win/loss record in your first season is never the reason to fire a coach.
(Almost) No coach is hired for year 1 results.
Mayo shouldn’t be fired for going 3-14, Mayo should be fired because the things he has dine as HC, the mentality and culture that he created, the attention to detail, work ethic, game planning, teaching and developing, accountability and schemes have all been horribly bad.
Parcells came here and was 1-11 before winning meaningless games that today people would ***** because he screwed up the draft slot.
But it was clear, Parcells had brought in a winning culture and the team was progressing.
There is nothing at all indicating progress this year.

That is the point I am trying to make in a roundabout way. When we say Mayo deserves to be fired, defenders of Mayo (few and far between - not many on here, but many in the media) will just latch onto his record and then say “well Dan Campbell also had a bad record at first!!!”

But it’s not about the record, it never was. This thread is just to prove that even if it WAS about the record, the point is STILL wrong because the vast majority of guys who start with such a record end up just being awful. There is the rare gem, but you kinda have an idea that you’re looking at one pretty early, and we can all see Mayo is not one - he’s one of the other 98% of the coaches with bad first years who are simply bad.

 

[Ring 6]

That is the point I am trying to make in a roundabout way. When we say Mayo deserves to be fired, defenders of Mayo (few and far between - not many on here, but many in the media) will just latch onto his record and then say “well Dan Campbell also had a bad record at first!!!”

But it’s not about the record, it never was. This thread is just to prove that even if it WAS about the record, the point is STILL wrong because the vast majority of guys who start with such a record end up just being awful. There is the rare gem, but you kinda have an idea that you’re looking at one pretty early, and we can all see Mayo is not one - he’s one of the other 98% of the coaches with bad first years who are simply bad.

This is the oldest sports argument that exists. People who have an uneducated position search for examples and stats to “prove” their point when you can pretty much find a statistic to support some meager level of correlation without any evidence of causation. Therefore the correlation becomes the argument and it’s a bad one.
Coaches are humans. One human who experienced one thing similar to what another one did is not doomed, or gifted, into the same results in the future.

Dan Campbell went out and did a good job, along with the front office and built a good team. Dan Campbell is not “won 3 games” so everyone who won 3 games is akin to him.

Mayo has shown no ability to be a HC at this level. He was largely considered unqualified when hired and has been worse than expected. Perhaps both Rich Kotite and Vince Lombardi would have also won 3 games with this team, but if they had, they would both gave very different futures in front of them. May is future is based upon who Mayo is not who he shares a win/loss record in year 1 with.

 

[Ring 6]

Caring about those interactions is - imo - the most baffling here on this site. When fans cared what BB said to the media, for instance….

Winning matters. Losing sucks. The rest is useless fluff.

Back to the matter at hand : Campbell might NOT be any good. The GM has built an amazing foundation. The OL, in particular, is stellar. Both the OC and DC are having great stretches and both might get a HC gigs this winter.

Mayo is giving us a window into his culture and how he runs the team.
I don’t care about his he interacts with the media, but what he says is showing us what’s going on in the lookerroom, on the practice field, the meeting room, etc.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Agreed. Mayo has assurances in his contract as we all know so he never had to go the route he should have in order to make him a better HC. Flores for example was what a LBs coach forever.. pepper Johnson left the organization because he felt he'd never have an opportunity to move up here. Mayo had his handed to him.

Where is Pepper Johnson coaching now?

 

[Ross12]

Mayo is giving us a window into his culture and how he runs the team.
I don’t care about his he interacts with the media, but what he says is showing us what’s going on in the lookerroom, on the practice field, the meeting room, etc.

He has on occasion told the media what he said to the team in the locker room, and then when the press asks the players immediately afterward, they say the same thing. So yeah there is reason to think he is saying all the same junk to his team in private as he does in public.

 

[patsfan13]

It's an arbitary criteria. My list is strictly coaches who won multiple SB's and 2/3rds of them had awful records year 1.

Bill Belichick had 5 wins on a team where he inherited a .500 team from the year before. He netted minus 3 wins vs Mayo netting minus 1. The 2 win difference between them is kind of suspect.

2 of the guys on my list are responsible for 4 of the last 6 Super Bowls.

Again my point is, most coaches fail. You could put literally any criteria together and most of it would show that the majority ended up failing. You could do a list of coaches that went .500 or above, and most of them would have failed by the end.

There's no rhyme or reason when it's a glorified lottery at this point. Saying Campbell is the exception is silly when virtually every coach who succeeds is the exception.

The problem is that the Team got worse as the year progressed; even with the improved QB play from Maye. This doesn't bode well for the franchise.
The best thing for the team is to clean the house. starting with the GM, and the coaching staff. Bring in a GM, hire Vrabel, let him bring in McDaniel, and choose his DC. Trade the #1 for a couple of Draft picks, come out of the draft/FA period with at least a #1 WR prospect, a starting LT and a Dominant DLman.
Kraft has forgotten how to run a franchise because of BB/TB.

 

[patsfan13]

Rex had two good years and then left the team trashed and trashed another team.
Vrabel had 3 good years and then bottomed out and got fired.
Demeco got fired from his first team ever
Sirianni is a ****head who is coasting on talent.
Caldwell is not considered a good coach or a success story.
McDermott was on the hotseat this year and will be again if they have a bad playoff exit.

It's hard to judge current coaches when in 5 years a lot of the guys you listed won't be viewed favorably.

Vrabel didn't have a QB.
IF we had a coach like Vrabel and McDaniel we could attract FA's because of Maye, FA will have no interest in the current dumpster fire.

 

[BTTA]

Is we are basing this entirely on evidence, clearly what Mayo needs is a tie next week.

 

[n1997y]

Is we are basing this entirely on evidence, clearly what Mayo needs is a tie next week.

NG. We’d most likely draft third, behind Browns and Titans

 

[Real fan 02]

Where is Pepper Johnson coaching now?

He and Jeff Saturday are thinking of doing a podcast together.

 

[BTTA]

NG. We’d most likely draft third, behind Browns and Titans

To keep his job, like Campbell did. Has nothing to do with draft order.

 

[mike_usagisan]

To keep his job, like Campbell did. Has nothing to do with draft order.

While I think he's safe, Mayo's job is to win, and I think he'll go everything he can to win. Much like the Giants did yesterday, even though it wasn't in their interest to win.

 

[Real fan 02]

While I think he's safe, Mayo's job is to win, and I think he'll go everything he can to win. Much like the Giants did yesterday, even though it wasn't in their interest to win.

I've resigned to the fact mayo will also Be here as well. Covington I believe it the one who will be collateral damage. I'd say we end up with the overall? What do you think?

 

[mike_usagisan]

I've resigned to the fact mayo will also Be here as well. Covington I believe it the one who will be collateral damage. I'd say we end up with the overall? What do you think?

If I was a betting man, I think we lose next week.

I think AVP is fired, and lesser coaches like Brian Belichick are scapegoated and fired on defense. My guess is Covington survives. I think maybe they promote McAdoo to be OC next year because they can't find anyone else.

 

[Real fan 02]

If I was a betting man, I think we lose next week.

I think AVP is fired, and lesser coaches like Brian Belichick are scapegoated and fired on defense. My guess is Covington survives. I think maybe they promote McAdoo to be OC next year because they can't find anyone else.

Very interesting.. see me I was thinking that AVP is spared another season solely because of his development of Drake and his relationship with wolf also the fact he was what the 11th person interviewed? The defense I can't say enough is the biggest let down.. they are the side of the ball with Mayo, pelligrino, Belichick, covington, Hightower all Bill Diciples. The defense has gotten worse with each game and they can't adjust and stop any NFL offense. Yes I agree we loose next week. Drake does his thing, but sadly so does the defense.

 

[chasa]

I mean I remember hearing some of Campbells post game interviews and stuff, and his vibe was completely different then Mayos.

Mayo spends 100% of the losses blaming the players, and its getting really tiresome. At no point does he ever take responsibility for anything. Not taking the wind in overtime, saying players are going to start, and starting different players, not starting drake sooner, not putting the players in the best position to win.

He's either tanking intentionally because bob told him to, or he's completely out of his depth. He appears to lack every single trait a leader needs, and the team has regressed with him in charge despite the talent level remaining the same, or improving and certain positions.

The only culture I see being put in place right now is an undisciplined loser mentality. This feels like a very Jets team right now.

I'm trying to think back on the season for a "damn that was smart by Mayo moment" and I'm coming up empty. the Dude brings nothing to the table that we couldn't get someplace else.

So i guess the question is we have a quarterback, are we going to waste his rookie contract?

 

[mike_usagisan]

Very interesting.. see me I was thinking that AVP is spared another season solely because of his development of Drake and his relationship with wolf also the fact he was what the 11th person interviewed? The defense I can't say enough is the biggest let down.. they are the side of the ball with Mayo, pelligrino, Belichick, covington, Hightower all Bill Diciples. The defense has gotten worse with each game and they can't adjust and stop any NFL offense. Yes I agree we loose next week. Drake does his thing, but sadly so does the defense.

I wish I could say that I was basing my beliefs on who will get fired on merit. It just seems that Mayo has been scapegoating AVP for a while. And I expect him to cover for Covington since that was Mayo's main hire.

 

[Real fan 02]

I wish I could say that I was basing my beliefs on who will get fired on merit. It just seems that Mayo has been scapegoating AVP for a while. And I expect him to cover for Covington since that was Mayo's main hire.

That is definitely sensible. Caley from what I heard in sports talk was Mayo's preference.. he nearly took the job.. and was offered a nice salary.. so we went through 11 coaching candidates to settle on AVP.. tough to settle Brissett and developing the 2023 3rd overall pick at QB to a potential OC. PatsFan2 made a great point if we move on from AVP then it has to be a different offense that utilizes pop strengths.

 

[stinkypete]

Campbell also inherited a team that had a QB, a fully formed offensive line, and a glut of draft picks.