"Well, Dan Campbell only won 3 games his first season..."

[Pape]

I mean it's hard to compare anyone because the league is different. I mean hell the last 6 Super Bowls had 4 of them won by Reid and Bill Belichick. McVay is really the only modern era guy whose won anything and even Arians is an old fart who didn't do much but he's been around since the late 80's. And I'd even argue McVay's success was more the Rams selling out to load up on talent

McVay is a good coach, but is in the mode of Kyle Shanahan... has to have every detail planned out... i think he knew Goff wasn't his guy... so he made a move, and it worked out... Goff needed to grow as a player, and that wasn't going to happen with McVay and its worked for him, to his credit...

Reid made the bold move for Mahomes, and its paid dividends for him...

Kinda hoping Detroit doesn't fold this year... would be good to see a new team win

 

[Real fan 02]

he showed glimpses of the type of coach he would become in his interim stint in Miami... he got the seasoning he needed with Sean Payton in New Orleans...

Campbell said what really helped him was being with Payton In NO.

 

[Ross12]

Bill Belichick: went 5-11 year one - doesn't count, as the list is filtered to 4 wins or fewer

Bill Walsh: went 2-14 his first year in San Fran - counts, although this was 45 years ago

Chuck Noll: went 1-13 his first year in Pittsburgh - counts, although this was 55 years ago

Tom Landry: went 0-11 when he took over the Cowboys - counts, although this was 64 years ago

Andy Reid went 5-11 his first year as HC of the Eagles - doesn't count, as the list is filtered to 4 wins or fewer

Tom Coughlin went 4-12 his first year on the Giants - that was with the Jaguars, not Giants

Bill Parcells went 3-12-1 his first year on the Giants - counts, although this was 41 years ago

Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 his first year in Dallas - counts, although this was 35 years ago

As detailed above, 3 of those don't fit the list criteria, and the 5 that do count are an average of 48 years ago.

 

[Grogan14]

Dan Campbell has fire and is a likeable entertainer. Mayo is a dull boring sourpuss
Big difference

 

[Pape]

Right! mayo has the internal knowledge from the GOAT and intelligence to be a good HC in the NFL he just skipped the process it takes to become such. So Bobby K won't fire him.. he'll give him a better roster and coaching support... however if it continues on this way he won't last past the trade deadline next season.

what coach is going to want to come here though? @Ian made that point rather succinctly early on in this thread... if you haven't read it, its on page 1... go back and read it... The presence of Mayo is an issue...

 

[signbabybrady]

Not to mention Dan Campbell still hasn't accomplished anything of note yet

 

[Ross12]

what coach is going to want to come here though? @Ian made that point rather succinctly early on in this thread... if you haven't read it, its on page 1... go back and read it... The presence of Mayo is an issue...

2024:
-Promote Mayo to HC, he has zero connections to build his own staff, have to get Wolf to help
-Can't find any OCs who will say yes to the job, settle on AVP after 10+ interviews because he is the first guy to say yes
-Promote Covington from within at DC to run the same pre-existing system
-Claim that AVP will be "the head coach of the offense" with little input from Mayo
-Team looks like hot garbage all year, Mayo constantly puts foot in mouth
-Offense looks better than defense even though defense kept all the players and should've been running same system as last year
-Defense slides from top-10ish unit from prior year to near bottom of league
-Despite this, the 1 OC who actually took the job gets bad mouthed/scapegoated/thrown under bus for weeks to take attention away from defensive performance, since DC is the HC's buddy

so let's see how things will go...

2025:
-Fire AVP and Covington
-Keep Mayo
-Hold interviews for new OC and DC
-Candidates now know the HC is bumbling unqualified fool who will scapegoat them for his own stupidity
-Candidates also now know that the HC is probably just going to be fired in a year anyway, which means they get fired too
-Now even fewer candidates will entertain the role, or even interview; AVP will look like Kyle Shanahan compared to the type of guys you can get in the door now
-Meanwhile, DC candidates are lost and confused - am I running my own defense, or am I supposed to be running Mayo's system, which is supposed to be Belichick's system? Does Mayo even really grasp the whole system? Can he impart it all to me in order to run it? Why was the defense so bad last year if he's a defensive coach? How can I fix it if I'm running his system? If I'm running/installing my own system instead, then what exactly is he doing at that point?

 

[lancerman]

As detailed above, 3 of those don't fit the list criteria, and the 5 that do count are an average of 48 years ago.

It's an arbitary criteria. My list is strictly coaches who won multiple SB's and 2/3rds of them had awful records year 1.

Bill Belichick had 5 wins on a team where he inherited a .500 team from the year before. He netted minus 3 wins vs Mayo netting minus 1. The 2 win difference between them is kind of suspect.

2 of the guys on my list are responsible for 4 of the last 6 Super Bowls.

Again my point is, most coaches fail. You could put literally any criteria together and most of it would show that the majority ended up failing. You could do a list of coaches that went .500 or above, and most of them would have failed by the end.

There's no rhyme or reason when it's a glorified lottery at this point. Saying Campbell is the exception is silly when virtually every coach who succeeds is the exception.

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Yeah whenever I hear that I just say what if hes Nathaniel Hackett

 

[Pape]

2024:
-Promote Mayo to HC, he has zero connections to build his own staff, have to get Wolf to help
-Can't find any OCs who will say yes to the job, settle on AVP after 10+ interviews because he is the first guy to say yes
-Promote Covington from within at DC to run the same pre-existing system
-Claim that AVP will be "the head coach of the offense" with little input from Mayo
-Team looks like hot garbage all year, Mayo constantly puts foot in mouth
-Offense looks better than defense even though defense kept all the players and should've been running same system as last year
-Defense slides from top-10ish unit from prior year to near bottom of league
-Despite this, the 1 OC who actually took the job gets bad mouthed/scapegoated/thrown under bus for weeks to take attention away from defensive performance, since DC is the HC's buddy

so let's see how things will go...

2025:
-Fire AVP and Covington
-Keep Mayo
-Hold interviews for new OC and DC
-Candidates now know the HC is bumbling unqualified fool who will scapegoat them for his own stupidity
-Candidates also now know that the HC is probably just going to be fired in a year anyway, which means they get fired too
-Now even fewer candidates will entertain the role, or even interview; AVP will look like Kyle Shanahan compared to the type of guys you can get in the door now
-Meanwhile, DC candidates are lost and confused - am I running my own defense, or am I supposed to be running Mayo's system, which is supposed to be Belichick's system? Does Mayo even really grasp the whole system? Can he impart it all to me in order to run it? Why was the defense so bad last year if he's a defensive coach? How can I fix it if I'm running his system? If I'm running/installing my own system instead, then what exactly is he doing at that point?

I'm torn ... Winner, Sad or 100% on this post...

think I will go winner...

 

[PatsFan2]

I'll save you the keystrokes, you have been desperately looking for a quick fix for this team the last few years and most of the time have been wrong. Mayo might or might not be the answer. He probably isn't. But pointing out a bunch of HC's failed with bad first years is not a relevant argument. Most successful coaches have bad first years. Most HC's fail in general. It's a numbers game.

The better argument against Mayo is how the team looks on the field.

That^ and it's been mostly bad.

 

[Real fan 02]

what coach is going to want to come here though? @Ian made that point rather succinctly early on in this thread... if you haven't read it, its on page 1... go back and read it... The presence of Mayo is an issue...

Well.. Yeah I do remember the thread. Mayo's part of the problem. However the roster is a bigger deterent just like the organizational set up. Is why I say AVP and Covington have leverage becuase no body with a reputation is going to want to come here. So they will have to get this roster stacked with talent across the board and start winning for.

 

[Pape]

Well.. Yeah I do remember the thread. Mayo's part of the problem. However the roster is a bigger deterent just like the organizational set up. Is why I say AVP and Covington have leverage becuase no body with a reputation is going to want to come here. So they will have to get this roster stacked with talent across the board and start winning for.

Or they could clean house, and work with the promise of Drake Maye and, if the NYG win today, the 1st overall draft pick

 

[rogerthat]

The worst part about this is it isn't even coaching that's hurt him. It's the unneeded shooting himself in the foot in terms of what he's said to the media, which has obviously become a running joke here. Any other coach, I think the outrage would be far worse and the only reason it's not is because he's at least a former player from here.

He's said so many horrific things and created so many unneeded issues that it shows he's immature and there's really no coming back from it, other than time - which would have to happen after he quietly works as an assistant/coordinator elsewhere. No one is going to want to come work here knowing what has transpired and if they're unaware, their agent is sure to advise them and will have likely done the research.

I agree with much of what you wrote. I'll add that there is a certain sentiment out there that dealing with the media doesn't matter. However, that sentiment is not true IMO. In Mayo's case, many of his players have taken his cue and gone off the rails publicly, which effects the chemistry of the team; and ultimately, the product on the field.

If you look back at Boston sports history, coaches that struggled with the media get a VERY SHORT leash. Examples= Pete Carroll, Grady Little, Jimy Williams, (probably) Mayo.

Coaches that overcame poor starts were invariably skilled with the media. Notable examples are Parcells, Francona, and Doc Rivers.

 

[Ross12]

It's an arbitary criteria. My list is strictly coaches who won multiple SB's and 2/3rds of them had awful records year 1.

Bill Belichick had 5 wins on a team where he inherited a .500 team from the year before. He netted minus 3 wins vs Mayo netting minus 1. The 2 win difference between them is kind of suspect.

2 of the guys on my list are responsible for 4 of the last 6 Super Bowls.

Again my point is, most coaches fail. You could put literally any criteria together and most of it would show that the majority ended up failing. You could do a list of coaches that went .500 or above, and most of them would have failed by the end.

There's no rhyme or reason when it's a glorified lottery at this point. Saying Campbell is the exception is silly when virtually every coach who succeeds is the exception.

I think you're probably generalizing a bit though, right? Sure "most coaches fail" but if a coach has a first year going sub-.300, he probably has a higher likelihood of failing than a guy whose first year is above .500, yes?

And those guys happen fairly often, rookie head coaches are not the endless sea of losing that you make them out to be. Between 2008-2023 there have been 30 first-time NFL head coaches who achieved 9 wins or more in their first seasons.

 

[festy1986]

One variable people don't take into account with this lame ass rationale is that the Lions were firing coaches left and right for years. They can't just fire a coach every season.

The Patriots don't do that so it's ok to pull the rug when clearly things aren't working.

When I hear players say things like Mayo treats us like men before players it all makes sense.

 

[Real fan 02]

Or they could clean house, and work with the promise of Drake Maye and, if the NYG win today, the 1st overall draft pick

True. The issue there is they will look more like ass clown ownership that David tepper is in Carolina. This has always been a world class organization. They haven't appeared as such becuase of the losing culture that's permeated the Last few seasons. They are like better allowing mayo to strengthen his staff and give him the talent he needs. If he still can't cut then he's Done. I just don't want to get myself invested in a new coach becuase ownership won't budge yet. Even with another loss coming Sunday against mitch trisbisky

 

[Pape]

True. The issue there is they will look more like ass clown ownership that David tepper is in Carolina. This has always been a world class organization. They haven't appeared as such becuase of the losing culture that's permeated the Last few seasons. They are like better allowing mayo to strengthen his staff and give him the talent he needs. If he still can't cut then he's Done. I just don't want to get myself invested in a new coach becuase ownership won't budge yet. Even with another loss coming Sunday against mitch trisbisky

they will look more like asses if they bring him back. After seeing the way this team played this year, the Kraft family needs to make some hard choices. Mayo may be a great guy, he may become a good coach, in time. But he shouldn't be "learning on the job". They shouldn't perpetuate a bad decision (hiring Mayo) with another bad decision (keeping Mayo).

 

[Ross12]

True. The issue there is they will look more like ass clown ownership that David tepper is in Carolina. This has always been a world class organization. They haven't appeared as such becuase of the losing culture that's permeated the Last few seasons. They are like better allowing mayo to strengthen his staff and give him the talent he needs. If he still can't cut then he's Done. I just don't want to get myself invested in a new coach becuase ownership won't budge yet. Even with another loss coming Sunday against mitch trisbisky

How is Mayo going to "strengthen his staff" if no one better than the staff he has now will want to come?

 

[lancerman]

I think you're probably generalizing a bit though, right? Sure "most coaches fail" but if a coach has a first year going sub-.300, he probably has a higher likelihood of failing than a guy whose first year is above .500, yes?

And those guys happen fairly often, rookie head coaches are not the endless sea of losing that you make them out to be. Between 2008-2023 there have been 30 first-time NFL head coaches who achieved 9 wins or more in their first seasons.

I don't agree with that at all. I think it's just a total crapshoot just like QB's. They can look above average year one, but after 2-3 years you can kinda determine if they are a bust and most are. Every 3 years, about half the league turns over HC's.