If patriots lose out, Travis Hunter could be theirs

[lancerman]

Valid points. And you could have added that we may be able to sign DJ Reed in FA to strengthen the DBs, and draft Mason Graham with a trade down. Graham has been good for years, great prospect with very little bust potential. Hard to be upset with Reed and Graham.

I still like Hunter as a WR and playing DB on 3rd down and long situations, like 10 to 15 defensive plays a game.

Personally I just don't think we can really have a fulltime WR and then play him as DB in critical situations. The other way around makes more sense. You can have a CB practice on shutting down one target all week and then have a few key routes for them to remember for critical plays.

However, having a WR learn the entire offensive gameplan for the week and then also needing him to figure out how to shut down one of the other WR's on crucial downs is iffy. Especially when you probably have a CB who is practicing just that. The first time he ever gets burned doing that is probably the last time they ever play him at CB.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Last year I could understand wanting to lose when a QB was on the wanted list. Just doesn't feel like that this time. I want us to win out and we'll take who we get. The losing mentality needs to stop.

I understand and that is a very valid point.

Next year should be a completely different team so the attitude will change. Adding Higgins and Hunter would transform the WR position. TEs are OK with Henry and Hooper. We are starting Robinson, Strange, and Onwenu as the inner OL this week and that might carry over to next year while adding a LT and RT in FA and the draft. It will be a very different offense next year. I think we can lose 2 more games in 2024 and transform the team in 2025 with $140M in cap dollars and high draft picks. With Maye in his 2nd year, the team will change significantly in 2025.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Personally I just don't think we can really have a fulltime WR and then play him as DB in critical situations. The other way around makes more sense. You can have a CB practice on shutting down one target all week and then have a few key routes for them to remember for critical plays.

However, having a WR learn the entire offensive gameplan for the week and then also needing him to figure out how to shut down one of the other WR's on crucial downs is iffy. Especially when you probably have a CB who is practicing just that. The first time he ever gets burned doing that is probably the last time they ever play him at CB.

Hunter is very unique. Heisman and Biletnikoff winner. Look at @KCSVEN post - Hunter has better hands than McMillan who has ridiculously good hands. Remember what BB said when talking about CBs, "If he had good hands he would have been a WR". Hunter will be a ridiculous WR, and only needs to be a #2 or #3 CB. I think Hunter can do it.

 

[mgteich]

. Hunter will be a ridiculous WR, and only needs to be a #2 or #3 CB. I think Hunter can do it.

???

If he is a generational WR, he doesn't have to play CB at all.

Expecting a full-time WR to spend lots of time on nuances of being a CB and being part of the preparation of defensive game plans is a choice that I don't think that we will make. Of course, if our coaching is as bad as some think, perhaps he will be expected to be an all-pro WR and also play CB.

 

[mgteich]

The problem is we've had really good defenses over the last 6 years and they were undermined by our offense being awful. You have a QB of the future now. You REALLY can't afford to let him languish on a piss poor offense while he's developing. And right now of the three levels on defense, the secondary is the third in priority of needing help. The LB's are dismal and we have one of the worst run stopping defenses in the league. You're not fixing anything, you're letting a very lopsided team become even more lopsided. Our defense mostly sucks because of the run stopping and Hunter does nothing to address that. Teams will still be able to pass all over the place on our linebackers as well.

Winning doesn't do anything for us though....

Like let's say we win the last two games.

-It's still a **** show of a season
-We beat a Bills team sitting most of their starters and an always up and down Chargers team
-There's nothing worth building off of and many of the current roster will be replaced.
-It's not culture building.
-It legitimately only forces us to continue this rebuild in a worse position.

C'mon, winning will make posters feel good, much more important than the difference between picking 2nd or 8th. NOT!

And, for sure, it makes no difference if someone get seriously injured in a meaningless game against backups. Beating BUF backups is much more important than avoiding injuries. NOT!

 

[mgteich]

I understand and that is a very valid point.

Next year should be a completely different team so the attitude will change. Adding Higgins and Hunter would transform the WR position. TEs are OK with Henry and Hooper. We are starting Robinson, Strange, and Onwenu as the inner OL this week and that might carry over to next year while adding a LT and RT in FA and the draft. It will be a very different offense next year. I think we can lose 2 more games in 2024 and transform the team in 2025 with $140M in cap dollars and high draft picks. With Maye in his 2nd year, the team will change significantly in 2025.

Yes, adding Hunter to be an all-pro WR will transform the Offense if we sign two top OT's in free agency.

Then we'll only need to sign about 6 top players on Defense with the rest of the cap money.
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Hopefully we'd get one more high-level prospect at the end of the 1st round, probably an OT.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

???

If he is a generational WR, he doesn't have to play CB at all.

Expecting a full-time WR to spend lots of time on nuances of being a CB and being part of the preparation of defensive game plans is a choice that I don't think that we will make. Of course, if our coaching is as bad as some think, perhaps he will be expected to be an all-pro WR and also play CB.

I don't think you understand.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yes, adding Hunter to be an all-pro WR will transform the Offense if we sign two top OT's in free agency.

Then we'll only need to sign about 6 top players on Defense with the rest of the cap money.
=============
Hopefully we'd get one more high-level prospect at the end of the 1st round, probably an OT.

If we get one more high-level OT prospect at the end of the 1st round and have Wallace from last year, we don't need to sign two top OTs in FA. One OT signing is fine. Also sign Higgins in FA. Then four defensive FAs, DT, LB, CB, and FS. That is a total of 6 FAs with $140M in cap space. R3 of the draft can be a RB.

Then we have a FA LT, Robinson, Strange, Onwenu, and Wallace or the high-level prospect from 2025. D Andrews, J Andrews, Sow, and Lowe are backups. WRs are Higgins, Hunter, Bourne, Boutte, and Douglas. TEs are Henry and Hooper. Maye is the QB. Not a bad group.

 

[KCSVEN]

Yes, adding Hunter to be an all-pro WR will transform the Offense if we sign two top OT's in free agency.

Then we'll only need to sign about 6 top players on Defense with the rest of the cap money.
=============
Hopefully we'd get one more high-level prospect at the end of the 1st round, probably an OT.

???

If he is a generational WR, he doesn't have to play CB at all.

Expecting a full-time WR to spend lots of time on nuances of being a CB and being part of the preparation of defensive game plans is a choice that I don't think that we will make. Of course, if our coaching is as bad as some think, perhaps he will be expected to be an all-pro WR and also play CB.

Hunter wants to play both. I see no issue with him playing CB on 3rd down and being mainly a WR. Most teams want to do the opposite which is fine but IMO with Maye as QB his bigger impact would be on offense.

Not sure he's a "generational" WR, Nabers was that, MHJ was not. yet most scouts had MHJ as one for some reason I can't comprehend. Hunter could be a top 10 in the NFL wide receiver. I don't think he's better than Nabers but he's better then MHJ and Odunze. He could also be a top 10 CB.

He is a "generational" talent and using him on both sides of the ball maximizes that. He played at altitude in Colorado yet played both ways. Stamina is amazing. He has a 4.0 GPA, he can handle the prep for both. The game is easy to him, he just see's things others don't, he's like Maye in that way. So many times, he's running a route and trying to point to the QB where he needs to throw the ball, and not just to him. He has a special football mind.

Putting up 30 points a game, even with a bad defense, will win you some games, you can't build the whole team in the next off season but get the offense humming and you are way ahead of the game. Half the NFL QB's suck so your crap defense won't matter in half the games.

 

[mgteich]

Hunter wants to play both. I see no issue with him playing CB on 3rd down and being mainly a WR. Most teams want to do the opposite which is fine but IMO with Maye as QB his bigger impact would be on offense.

Not sure he's a "generational" WR, Nabers was that, MHJ was not. yet most scouts had MHJ as one for some reason I can't comprehend. Hunter could be a top 10 in the NFL wide receiver. I don't think he's better than Nabers but he's better then MHJ and Odunze. He could also be a top 10 CB.

He is a "generational" talent and using him on both sides of the ball maximizes that. He played at altitude in Colorado yet played both ways. Stamina is amazing. He has a 4.0 GPA, he can handle the prep for both. The game is easy to him, he just see's things others don't, he's like Maye in that way. So many times, he's running a route and trying to point to the QB where he needs to throw the ball, and not just to him. He has a special football mind.

Putting up 30 points a game, even with a bad defense, will win you some games, you can't build the whole team in the next off season but get the offense humming and you are way ahead of the game. Half the NFL QB's suck so your crap defense won't matter in half the games.

OK, I am fine with signing Higgins and drafting Hunter as a WR.

My PERSONAL view is that going into camp, and then the season, Hunter will be much, much more valuable if he is WR 100% of the time.
My PERSONAL view is that Hunter will NOT be able to be an all-pro value WR while he spends time each week preparing to play CB.
If we intend to draft Hunter, then we should sign a top CB in free agency.
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AS AN ASIDE
If Hunter WANTS to play both, I would pass.

 

[mgteich]

Then we have a FA LT, Robinson, Strange, Onwenu, and Wallace or the high-level prospect from 2025. D Andrews, J Andrews, Sow, and Lowe are backups. WRs are Higgins, Hunter, Bourne, Boutte, and Douglas. TEs are Henry and Hooper. Maye is the QB. Not a bad group.

I still don't like the prospects for the OL. By adding a free agent vet swing OT and drafting a center in the 4th, I think that we would be OK.
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TACKLE (we need 2 starters, a swing OT, and a top prospect)
One can be an older veteran.
1) You want to count on FA LT, bottom of the first choice, Wallace and Lowe.
2) I strongly prefer to sign another free agent as an upgrade to Lowe. There is little reason to believe that a rookie drafted at the bottom of the first in this draft will be able to be valuable this year. I would draft for the future.

CENTER (we need a starter, a backup, and an emergency #3)
You count on Strange or Andrews (both in their contract year) and Jake. Maye that will work out. I would NOT expect Dave Andrews to be a backup. If he can't start, I would think that he will retire. I suppose this will work (with brown in camp as a possibility) and perhaps a 5t4th round draftee.

GUARD
Onwenu, and Robinson are fine.
I suspect that Strange might be playing LG. He absolutely needed to use the practice time this year to see if he had a future as a center. Otherwise, 2025 would likely be his last year.

I suspect that someone will beat out Sow as a backup OG.

 

[mgteich]

Then four defensive FAs, DT, LB, CB, and FS.

We have an opportunity to do better. After all, we gave up adding to the Defense in 2023.

This not nearly enough even if we are counting on Jon Jones and Wise for another year. Even then, I would want a DE for the future to replace Ekuale and more than one LB. We definitely need an EDGE LB and also need a force inside.
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[One-If-By-Sea]

I still don't like the prospects for the OL. By adding a free agent vet swing OT and drafting a center in the 4th, I think that we would be OK.
====================
TACKLE (we need 2 starters, a swing OT, and a top prospect)
One can be an older veteran.
1) You want to count on FA LT, bottom of the first choice, Wallace and Lowe.
2) I strongly prefer to sign another free agent as an upgrade to Lowe. There is little reason to believe that a rookie drafted at the bottom of the first in this draft will be able to be valuable this year. I would draft for the future.

The FA LT, like Alaric Jackson or Cam Robinson, would replace Lowe - either player is an upgrade. We do not need another FA to replace Lowe. Between Wallace, Lowe, and a late 1st or early 2nd draft pick, we should be able to upgrade the RT position and have a swing tackle.

CENTER (we need a starter, a backup, and an emergency #3)
You count on Strange or Andrews (both in their contract year) and Jake. Maye that will work out. I would NOT expect Dave Andrews to be a backup. If he can't start, I would think that he will retire. I suppose this will work (with brown in camp as a possibility) and perhaps a 5t4th round draftee.

Strange, D Andrews and J Andrews is a good group (assuming Strange is OK in the last two games). Those three are a strong group, not every position can be an All Pro. D Andrews loves football and the Pats. He will not retire, he will offer veteran support and pickup his check. D Andrews will not forego his contract check. I don't think Brown will make the cut - maybe PS.

GUARD
Onwenu, and Robinson are fine.
I suspect that Strange might be playing LG. He absolutely needed to use the practice time this year to see if he had a future as a center. Otherwise, 2025 would likely be his last year.

I am not convinced about Robinson yet, but to his credit he does seem to be getting better. So I give him that and hope.

I suspect that someone will beat out Sow as a backup OG.

Who? Doubtful unless you know someone. It is a waste to pay a FA as a backup.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

We have an opportunity to do better. After all, we gave up adding to the Defense in 2023.

This not nearly enough even if we are counting on Jon Jones and Wise for another year. Even then, I would want a DE for the future to replace Ekuale and more than one LB. We definitely need an EDGE LB and also need a force inside.
=========

I love your passion and I can not disagree with you. But I don't think we can fix everything in one year. A high end FA DT and a low end FA DT like Watts, but much much better, is realistic IMO. Hopefully Barmore is back so that helps fix the issue with a high end FA - those two should be enough.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

 

[Kdo5]

He’s the guy this team needs. A skill player with talent the likes of which we haven’t seen since Gronkowski.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

He’s the guy this team needs. A skill player with talent the likes of which we haven’t seen since Gronkowski.

Could not agree more.

AVP never figured out how to use M Jones on offense for a few plays. Not sure AVP is the right guy to utilize Hunter well.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

This draft is completely different than last year’s. This is a draft where team’s are going to be looking to get out of the first round. Whereas last year’s draft was loaded in the first round, and no one wanted to move out of it.

The Patriots should be looking at every avenue to fix their offensive line, from trades to free agency and the draft, that’s the number 1 priority of this offseason, and Wolf has to get that done if he wants to keep his job. He’s got the money and picks to achieve that, and failure isn’t going to be accepted. I am on board with every option but one, over drafting a player with their first pick in the draft. Unfortunately there are no Joe Alt’s in this draft, and they had to use their first pick last year to get their franchise QB, which Wolf got done. If there were a Joe Alt in this draft I would say to take him and figure out everything else after that. This year the top 3 OL are Will Campbell LSU, Kelvin Banks Texas, and Josh Simmons OSU. Right now the speculation is that Campbell’s arms aren’t going to be long enough to play tackle successfully in the NFL, and many believe he will have to move inside to guard as a pro. Banks is a good prospect, but he’s having a mediocre season at the college level, which tells you he’s not ready to be a franchise tackle at the next level. He could end up being good, he could need time to develop, or he could outright bust. Simmons is the best prospect but he’s been hurt all season, and probably won’t be ready when next season starts. I would probably take a shot at Campbell or Banks if they end up picking 6 or higher, be it draft order or trading out, but not with the #2 or 3 pick. To me the better route for the draft is to take the best player you can get at 2-3 and then trade back in to get Ersery or Simmons, who are on par or better than the top 2. However imo the best case scenario is to trade #2 to the Raiders for their 1st round pick in 26’ and their 2nd round pick this year. Then take the Tackle or BPA at 6, and trade back into the first with their extra picks. There are a variety of things they can do with this option, including LT and WR in the 1st, DT and LT, or WR and LT, although I’m out on MacMillan, so the last option is my least favorite.

That’s what I would do Mg, what would you do?

You’re out on McMillan but in on Campbell LOL

Draft a guard in the top 6...thank god you’re not our GM. We’d be lucky to win 3 games next year

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Last year I could understand wanting to lose when a QB was on the wanted list. Just doesn't feel like that this time. I want us to win out and we'll take who we get. The losing mentality needs to stop.

I agree with you
QB is the biggest and hardest position to fill
We did that
Hoping to lose so we can get the”generational talent” is BS
Last year MHJ was a “generational talent”. He’s average at best
Sauce Gardner “generational talent” average at best
I can go on and on
The draft is a crapshoot. We got Gonzo at 17. I would take him over 13 players taken before him
Does not mean the guy at 2 is not going to be good. But you get no assurities
I follow the NFL for one reason
I want my team to win. My home team. The team I rooted for, for 65 years
I’m not taking a losing mentality and lose the fun of watching my team play when you cannot assure me that losing is better for the team