PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

If patriots lose out, Travis Hunter could be theirs

Status
Not open for further replies.
SEPARATION is the key word here. THAT is what we need in this WR group. I'm sure Tet is a fine player but NOT worthy of a #2 pick. I think your analysis is dead on here. Speed is less of a thing than separation. Cupp and Puka BOTH are 4.5. 4.6 kind of guys coming out of college, but somehow they both manage to get great separation on the field. So THAT skill is what we need to be looking for in our search to develop the WR room.
How much studying have you done on McMillan’s separation ability ?
 
It's not that Hunter is a "burner", he isn't. He has very good speed but not Randy Moss or Worthy speed.
It's his quickness and his ability to turn on a dime. I would bet his three cone shuttle time would be 6.6 or faster.
With regards to Tet, if being a WR were simply about being tall..than N'Keal Henry would still be here as a #1.

I do agree that if Pats have #2 pick it will present a difficult decision. In this draft with no sure things at the top, I doubt any team will pay a king's ransom to get in top three. Also not team has 2 first round picks this year.

Perhaps for a top 3 pick you get an extra 1 next year and a 2 this year.

As for talent, I have no doubt Hunter is the safest pick at the top of the draft BUT he comes with Deion baggage nd ahveing to deal with his desire to play both CB and WR. Given the recent Harry draft pick fiasco, I think there is no way the pats seriously consider Tet.
N’Keal Harry was 6’2. That’s not tall.

Please don’t ever EVER compare Harry with McMillan. Not even comparable players based on college film. Harry had the worst YAC film I have ever seen. McMillan one of the best. That’s just 1. Plenty more where McMillan trumps him
 
.

Strange, D Andrews and J Andrews is a good group (assuming Strange is OK in the last two games). Those three are a strong group, not every position can be an All Pro. D Andrews loves football and the Pats. He will not retire, he will offer veteran support and pickup his check. D Andrews will not forego his contract check. I don't think Brown will make the cut - maybe PS.

I am not convinced about Robinson yet, but to his credit he does seem to be getting better. So I give him that and hope.

Who? Doubtful unless you know someone. It is a waste to pay a FA as a backup.
I have no problem with Robinson. I expect him to start. We will need a backup OG if Strange ends up being the center.

Ae you really saying that Sow is soooo good that we can't find a free agent that can compete with his excellence for a roster spot? Really? And all because I haven't bothered backup free agents at OG?
 
I have no problem with Robinson. I expect him to start. We will need a backup OG if Strange ends up being the center.
BB played J Andrews at LG before he was hurt. Sow also can play LG or RG. Even D Andrews can play guard. We do not need backups - we already have them. The problem is that all three are not healthy right now. If they are healthy in 2025 camp, we do not need more backups.
Ae you really saying that Sow is soooo good that we can't find a free agent that can compete with his excellence for a roster spot? Really? And all because I haven't bothered backup free agents at OG?
I agree there are better backup guards in FA, even better starting guards in FA than Sow. But the starting or backup guards are not on a rookie 4th round contract. We have to spend our FA money in the best way possible, and I am not sure that OG is where the money should go.

WR? Yes. OT? Yes. RB? Maybe. And a bunch, 4+ positions, on defense. I am not sure that OG is where we should spend our cap dollars.
 
The FA LT, like Alaric Jackson or Cam Robinson, would replace Lowe - either player is an upgrade. We do not need another FA to replace Lowe. Between Wallace, Lowe, and a late 1st or early 2nd draft pick, we should be able to upgrade the RT position and have a swing tackle.
free agent LT starter - we agree
-----------------------
You expect Lowe, Wallace and a late first or early round draft choice to be the rest of our OT group. Let's NOT set the 53 now. Let us have SOME competition.
---------
Personally, I think that this is truly horrible perspective on the key positions of backup LT and starting RT and swing OT.

It is very, very possible that you will be ready to fire the GM (again) for making the decision to go with whichever 3-4 end up making the roster, especially after an injury to one of the four in camp or after the season starts.
=========
MY PROPOSAL
is to expect to cut Lowe and to have a veteran swing OT be able to start at RT, backup at LT and be able to start or backup at RT. I will be just fine if Wallace beats this vet out to win the starting RT job. I would be just fine if the draftee is ready to play a major role as a rookie. Of course, Lowe could end up making the 53 if someone is injured. Lowe would be expected to be on the Practice Squad.

I do NOT, do NOT want to be forced to use our draft choices on a particular position. I think that BPA works well, well as long as a team has a at least an OK starting QB. I expect that we would again be trying to trade up into the 20's and again be looking at much better players at the top of 2nd at other positions.
 
BB played J Andrews at LG before he was hurt. Sow also can play LG or RG. Even D Andrews can play guard. We do not need backups - we already have them. The problem is that all three are not healthy right now. If they are healthy in 2025 camp, we do not need more backups.

I agree there are better backup guards in FA, even better starting guards in FA than Sow. But the starting or backup guards are not on a rookie 4th round contract. We have to spend our FA money in the best way possible, and I am not sure that OG is where the money should go.

WR? Yes. OT? Yes. RB? Maybe. And a bunch, 4+ positions, on defense. I am not sure that OG is where we should spend our cap dollars.
I'm certainly fine with Jake for the OG/OC backup. he's been injured a couple of times. I hope that he is better than before the injuries and therefore at least a backup into the future.
========
We'll have plenty of time to see how will spend $130M of 2024 cap money, holding back $9M for camp and the season. I would note that the first year of a long-term contract almost always is less than the AAV.

We'll have plenty of money to make a very big splash. I DO NOT think that we will so little left after the first couple of weeks that we will be forced to bring in no competition for Sow or Lowe. The major reason for a 90-man roster is for there to be competition.
 
Very positive scouting report on Hunter, same guy Maye and Nabers as all-time elite talents (great minds think alike)
I Think Hunter is just below those 2 but hard to factor in the 2-way play into the equation. Just need to lose the next 2!

 
You better hope that doesn't happen: this Team winning a meaningless game. What do we gain for winning the Final game?? Nothing!! The last thing I want to see or hear is a Mayo Presser after a Ridiculous Win that knocks us out of Excellent Draft position. This Team Drafting 6th or 8th is not beneficial in 2025. Nothing would make a Loser Head Clown like Mayo happy than a win against a Team that's resting Starters nice spring board for the upcoming season.

I’m a big fan of Hunter but the best deal the Patriots can get with the 2nd pick of the draft is the Raiders 1st round pick in 26’ and their 2nd rd. Pick this year, as well as the swap of first round picks. The Raiders 1st round pick in 26’ will likely be a top 10 pick in that draft, which would give the Patriots the ability to get the best non QB in that draft, as well as a really good player at #6 in this draft. I have already gone through a number of permutations that can take place with their first pick in this draft, so I won’t repeat them again, but they have numerous good options, and they should explore all of them instead of just locking in on one and not cot considering the others.
 


Got this from SB Nation. Didn't know if you could view the link so I posted the entire story. Interesting perspective.\

What do the Miami Dolphins do with Tyreek Hill​

Story by Nick Sabatino
• 23h • 4 min read




What do the Miami Dolphins do with Tyreek Hill© Photo by Carmen Mandato/Getty Images
This question would have been unfathomable a few years ago, but times have changed, and Tyreek Hill’s future with the Miami Dolphins feels uncertain. The Dolphins offense is a high-powered puzzle, but its missing piece isn’t one that’s not fitting, it’s just not there altogether.

The offense has gone through its seasons of early explosive success, getting found out toward the middle of the season, the adjustment period, and then falling off at the end of the season when the going gets tough and the weather gets cold.
The last three years feel like when a band’s last three albums all sound the same, and you’re waiting for them to transition to the next level, but it just won’t happen. The Dolphins haven’t hit that next level, and Hill is at the heart of the issue.
From what I’ve seen on social media, fans have caught on to Hill’s lack of rising to the occasion as a WR1 when the Dolphins play the best teams. That fact alone made me want to write about this, and it can’t be overstated. It’s not an indictment on Hill’s overall ability because he is one of the most productive and explosive players in the league, but he could be the one to go.

It Doesn’t Take Two

When the Dolphins shaped their offense almost three years ago, it was coined as the “Legion of Zoom” due to how fast guys like Hill, Jaylen Waddle, and Raheem Mostert were. Last year, they added De’Von Achane to the mix and took Zoom to the net level. The only problem is that speed slows down when the road is slippery or stalls out when the temperature drops. There has to be another strength to turn to, and it’s not there.
The roster construction of the offense isn’t just a receiver problem. It’s a running back problem, but that’s a story for another day. With receivers, a small and fast build looks ideal in the summer and fall, but when “winter is here,” it’s not a dominant strength on the field. In those cold games and big games in general, you need a big-bodied receiver you know who can make tough, contested catches and take the beating. That’s not Hill, nor is it Waddle.

That’s where I feel the problem lies. The Dolphins have two of the same type of receiver. Both Hill and Waddle are small, speed players who can create huge plays vertically, but neither is the guy to make a contested catch and take a hit. Both are great players, with Hill even being voted the number one player in the NFL by the players this year, but neither has the skillset that translates as “the guy” late in the season.
Hill has a championship with the Kansas City Chiefs, but he was never the possession target on that team. If they needed a first down, the first option was always Travis Kelce, and maybe the Dolphins have found that with Jonnu Smith to a lesser degree, but when you’re making $30 million a year, you have to be “the guy” that makes “the play,” even when the defense knows the ball is going to you.
The issue isn’t Hill’s contract. It’s adding Hill’s and Waddle’s contracts together to the tune of $58 million annually, with neither being the one that can make contested catches or even attack the ball at its highest point. Both are notorious body catchers, with Hill being the one who can’t make big catches in big games with his hands and Waddle being the one who can’t stay on the field.

Thanks For The Memories

Most of the football-viewing community understands Tua Tagovailoa is at his best when he’s taking what the defense gives him, no matter who ends up as the receiving target. His problems start to arise when he fully locks into Hill, as he did recently against the Houston Texans, resulting in three interceptions.
I could argue that Hill’s lack of strength, length, and hands had something to do with all three interceptions, whether it’s getting pushed off his route, not boxing out a corner, or just getting the ball ripped out of his hands.
We don’t even need to get into the three drops, including two touchdown drops he had against the San Francisco 49ers, but it’s the pattern of drops in big games that has become public over the last two years.
There comes a point where you look at the money allocated to receivers, the holes in the roster, and conclude that the roster could be better without one of the two in Hill or Waddle.

Waddle is as explosive as Hill and four years younger, so that helps his case, but his inability to stay on the field hurts it.
Hill has been the more productive receiver, though notorious for big game drops. He also has too many off-the-field issues and is reaching the other side of thirty. A classic example of when a team moves on a year too early rather than a year too late.
If you trade one of them and open up nearly $30 million annually to other areas in need like the offensive line, and add a big veteran receiver like Amari Cooper, Calvin Ridley, or Chris Godwin type of build, I don’t see how it’s not an upgrade for Miami.
The Achilles heel of this Miami team is toughness. They’ve shown it at times, like Sunday against the Niners, but they’re generally pushed around when the going gets tough and that includes the receiving room. Hill and Waddle played a big part in Tagovailoa’s development, and the “Legion of Zoom” was fun to watch, but if the Dolphins traded either the Hill or Waddle, with Hill being the more likely candidate, it could be the best outcome for this team moving forward into 2025.
 
N’Keal Harry was 6’2. That’s not tall.

Please don’t ever EVER compare Harry with McMillan. Not even comparable players based on college film. Harry had the worst YAC film I have ever seen. McMillan one of the best. That’s just 1. Plenty more where McMillan trumps him


Maybe he grew 2 inches?
 
I’m a big fan of Hunter but the best deal the Patriots can get with the 2nd pick of the draft is the Raiders 1st round pick in 26’ and their 2nd rd. Pick this year, as well as the swap of first round picks. The Raiders 1st round pick in 26’ will likely be a top 10 pick in that draft, which would give the Patriots the ability to get the best non QB in that draft, as well as a really good player at #6 in this draft. I have already gone through a number of permutations that can take place with their first pick in this draft, so I won’t repeat them again, but they have numerous good options, and they should explore all of them instead of just locking in on one and not cot considering the others.
I would take that deal in a nano sscond
 
I'm certainly fine with Jake for the OG/OC backup. he's been injured a couple of times. I hope that he is better than before the injuries and therefore at least a backup into the future.
I think Jake is a starter level, and as a backup is ideal. The injuries are a concern. It is funny how some players seem not to get injured, like Thuney, and others get repeatedly injured.
We'll have plenty of time to see how will spend $130M of 2024 cap money, holding back $9M for camp and the season. I would note that the first year of a long-term contract almost always is less than the AAV.
Yes, the first year is commonly lower but that also requires some back end loading, like void years, which in the end leads to an earlier higher cash spend. If you notice the Patriots have no void years because that approach lowers the cash spend. I think we can all agree that RK is cheap.

So will RK authorize the whole cap to be spent in 2025 AND back load the contracts in some mannere so the first year is less than the AAV? You have not addressed the complete question of complete cap spend and back loaded contracts.
We'll have plenty of money to make a very big splash. I DO NOT think that we will so little left after the first couple of weeks that we will be forced to bring in no competition for Sow or Lowe. The major reason for a 90-man roster is for there to be competition.
I am not concerned about competition for Sow and Lowe on the 90-man roster with minimum wage contract players. That is all trivial side show stuff. Usually 1 person, minimum or UDFA player, surprises from the 90-man roster. Following 37 players because there might be one that makes the 53 man roster requires a lot of time that I do not have spare.
 
Haven’t watched much film have you? He’s a 6’5 220lb athletic specimen with with insane YAC ability and the best hands in the past decade

I question how much you've watched him when you claim insane YAC ability... from what I've watched most of his YAC this season came on three long TDs where the CB in coverage fell down. You can also see he gets open on some routes because he and his QB are on the same page, not because of his route running. He has good long speed, but he isn't explosive in the short area. Unless something drastically changes, I think his most likely position in the league is as a big slot running TEesque routes.
 
Watching today’s game, if the Pats use their first pick on a defensive player that isn’t a pass rusher, the entire front office should be fired right on the spot. If Hunter is going to be a CB and a part time WR, hard pass because that will be what opposing QBs will be competing all day on the Patriots even with Gonzalez and Hunter in the secondary.
 
Can we rename this thread “If the Pats lose out, Abdul Carter could be their’s”?
 
Yeah, we don't need any help in the secondary... we have Christian Gonzalez!!
 
Yeah, we don't need any help in the secondary... we have Christian Gonzalez!!

We could have Revis and Bailey in their prime and QBs could pass all over this team. When a QB can sit in the pocket for five minutes, no CB can cover forever.

Again, having two elite CB does nothing if you don’t have talent up front.

Draft a CB with the second rounder. That is where you get a #2 CB.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
MORSE: Patriots Prospects and 30 Visits
Patriots News 04-19, Countdown To Draft Day
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 6 – A Week Before the Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/13
Patriots News 04-12, What To Watch For In The NFL Draft
MORSE: Pre-Draft Patriots News and Notes
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
Mark Morse
2 weeks ago
Patriots Part Ways with Another Linebacker as Offseason Roster Shake-Up Continues
Patriots News 04-05, Mock Draft 2.0, Patriots Look For OL Depth
MORSE: 18 Game Schedule and Other Patriots Notes
Back
Top