Bologna Bob confirmed cheap

[PatsFan2]

No he wanted to stay in San Fran. He said he would consider Pittsburgh as plan B. Probably because he knew the Steelers wouldn't give up enough to get him.

I am sure the Coaching mattered: Tomlin looks like an older Aiyuk so Pittsburgh had that going for them. Who do we have Mayo tough choice there??

 

[Rob0729]

I am sure the Coaching mattered: Tomlin looks like an older Aiyuk so Pittsburgh had that going for them. Who do we have Mayo tough choice there??

Again, he didn't want to be traded. I think that was all that mattered. He wanted to take away all the real options for the 49ers to get them to resign him.

 

[n1997y]

Having bad players is worse

Having bad coaches is even worse.

Chicken/egg

No. Good coaches make players better. Bad coaches make players worse. Doesn’t matter if players are good or bad.

In other words:

Bad players/bad coaches, players get worse. (*)

Good players/bad coaches, players get worse.

Good coaches/bad players, players get better. Or at least less bad.

Good coaches/good players, players get better.


(*) <- You are here

 

[Rob0729]

Yes, the Patriots could have signed Trent Brown again. He quit of the Bengals game one for them and has been doing everything possible to get Joe Burrow killed. The Pats whiffed on bringing him back.

At the time of free agency, they didn't know that Strange would miss most of the season. They didn't know David Andrews would get a season ending injury in week 4. They didn't realize Onwenu would suck this year. Nor did they think all the o-linemen they drafted the last two years couldn't step up.

But start naming names. Who could have the Pats signed? Easy to claim there were plenty of free agents to sign and not name names. Here is the first list ranking the top free agents of 2024 I could find and where they signed. You will see that they have Onwenu as the top rated offensive lineman (15th best free agent available) which the Patriots resigned. The next guy was Tyrone Smith at 18, but as a guy towards the end of his career he wanted to go to a team that could make the playoffs. The next guy after him is a center at 25. There was no offensive line talent in free agency early this year.

2024 NFL free agency tracker: Updates on top 100 free agents, plus who's still available before training camp

A look at all the free agency deals involving the best veterans on the market

www.cbssports.com

BTW, to all those who say the Pats cannot sign free agents because no one wants to play here. Look at Brian Burns, who was one of the top free agent not franchised and he signed with the Giants. And Christian Wilkins, another top free agent, went to the Raiders.

One more thing to this. The Bengals, who had Super Bowl aspirations going into free agency and desperate for a tackle to protect Burrow's blindside, chose Trent Freakin Brown after he totally quit on the Pats the year before (and quit on every other team he played for) to be their starting LT on a Super Bowl run for their franchise QB who is often injured. That tells you how devoid of o-line talent the 2024 free agency truly was.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Again, he didn't want to be traded. I think that was all that mattered. He wanted to take away all the real options for the 49ers to get them to resign him.

The 49ers have laid the blueprint on how not to handle a situation like that. Their worst mistake was letting him set his market which backfired on the 49ers lowball offer.

They should’ve either: traded him, asked him to knock it off and report with the promise to not use the franchise tag in 2025 or simply tell him to report by a certain date or he can sit at home.

They ended up paying him where he was out of shape which eventually led to his ACL tear.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, the Patriots could have signed Trent Brown again. He quit of the Bengals game one for them and has been doing everything possible to get Joe Burrow killed. The Pats whiffed on bringing him back.

At the time of free agency, they didn't know that Strange would miss most of the season. They didn't know David Andrews would get a season ending injury in week 4. They didn't realize Onwenu would suck this year. Nor did they think all the o-linemen they drafted the last two years couldn't step up.

But start naming names. Who could have the Pats signed? Easy to claim there were plenty of free agents to sign and not name names. Here is the first list ranking the top free agents of 2024 I could find and where they signed. You will see that they have Onwenu as the top rated offensive lineman (15th best free agent available) which the Patriots resigned. The next guy was Tyrone Smith at 18, but as a guy towards the end of his career he wanted to go to a team that could make the playoffs. The next guy after him is a center at 25. There was no offensive line talent in free agency early this year.

2024 NFL free agency tracker: Updates on top 100 free agents, plus who's still available before training camp

A look at all the free agency deals involving the best veterans on the market

www.cbssports.com

BTW, to all those who say the Pats cannot sign free agents because no one wants to play here. Look at Brian Burns, who was one of the top free agent not franchised and he signed with the Giants. And Christian Wilkins, another top free agent, went to the Raiders.

I’m not going to rehash the “there weren’t any free agents” garbage again.
We are starting waiver wire guys.
Everyone knew Strange would miss most of the season. Everyone knew we had no one capable of playing LT. Everyone knew Andrews was at best average, and getting old and they extended him for no reason. Onwenu can only play 1 position and we settled in him, an average at best Andrews and no one else of starting quality.
CBS Sports rankings seems like what Wolf would use.

If you want to believe there were no players better than the worst OL in the league, no one better than guys who got waived, keep your head in the sand.

 

[Rob0729]

I’m not going to rehash the “there weren’t any free agents” garbage again.
We are starting waiver wire guys.
Everyone knew Strange would miss most of the season. Everyone knew we had no one capable of playing LT. Everyone knew Andrews was at best average, and getting old and they extended him for no reason. Onwenu can only play 1 position and we settled in him, an average at best Andrews and no one else of starting quality.
CBS Sports rankings seems like what Wolf would use.

If you want to believe there were no players better than the worst OL in the league, no one better than guys who got waived, keep your head in the sand.

I accept your defeat. I don't know how hard it is to look at a list of 100 free agents and not pick a few guys if they are there.

I don't see any player on the top 100 list that would have changed the Patriots' o-line fortunes very much at all. Just adding bodies in free agency isn't a solution.

You can complain about the current state of the line, but you need to point out the players the Pats could have signed that would have made this o-line even good enough to be considered really, really bad before you complain about them not acquiring players in free agency. Mekhi Becton was one of the three top rated LTs in free agency and he is at best a slight upgrade to Vederian Lowe. If you ask Jets fans, they will probably tell you he is a downgrade.

 

[Ring 6]

I accept your defeat. I don't know how hard it is to look at a list of 100 free agents and not pick a few guys if they are there.

I don't see any player on the top 100 list that would have changed the Patriots' o-line fortunes very much at all. Just adding bodies in free agency isn't a solution.

You can complain about the current state of the line, but you need to point out the players the Pats could have signed that would have made this o-line even good enough to be considered really, really bad before you complain about them not acquiring players in free agency. Mekhi Becton was one of the three top rated LTs in free agency and he is at best a slight upgrade to Vederian Lowe. If you ask Jets fans, they will probably tell you he is a downgrade.

Blah, blah, blah. I’ve done it before and all of you losers who accept failure pull the “show me the names”. His about you do this. Take a look at all of the OL that were signed in Free Agency that are worse that Leverette, Brown, Jacobs, Jordan we started 11 weeks and no one else wants Leviticus Smith or whatever F that guys name is and the other slugs we have who can’t beat out the slugs who start.
If you don’t want to do that can I post you accept defeat?

Again, you keep telling yourself that with $100,000,000 it was impossible to build an OL good enough that other teams waived players couldn’t immediately come in and start on.

We have had players who couldn’t make a 53 man roster start 30 games on our OL. That is over 40% of the starts and Lowe started 10 more and he wouldn’t have made anyone else’s 53.
If you couldn’t find better players than that you have no idea what you are looking at.

 

[Rob0729]

Blah, blah, blah. I’ve done it before and all of you losers who accept failure pull the “show me the names”. His about you do this. Take a look at all of the OL that were signed in Free Agency that are worse that Leverette, Brown, Jacobs, Jordan we started 11 weeks and no one else wants Leviticus Smith or whatever F that guys name is and the other slugs we have who can’t beat out the slugs who start.
If you don’t want to do that can I post you accept defeat?

Again, you keep telling yourself that with $100,000,000 it was impossible to build an OL good enough that other teams waived players couldn’t immediately come in and start on.

We have had players who couldn’t make a 53 man roster start 30 games on our OL. That is over 40% of the starts and Lowe started 10 more and he wouldn’t have made anyone else’s 53.
If you couldn’t find better players than that you have no idea what you are looking at.

Spending a lot of money on garbage players don't make them good players. Paying Mekhi Becton $10 million a year will not make not a bust of a player. Giving Trent Brown money wouldn't have made him try hard.

Yes, the Patriots needed more on the o-line. Unfortunately, the past free agency was the worst free agency I can remember for o-line talent. Having a crapload of money doesn't change the talent in free agency. Signing crap players just because you have money (and the Patriots did that BTW) doesn't change that. I mean they did sign Chukwuma Okorafor, who was a decent tackle for the Steelers for a few years, and Nick Leverett this past offseason. And look, money turn them into starters.

The good news in the 2025 free agent class will have better o-line talent and the Pats will have more money. And based on reports the Kraft have already been calling around for advice on how to put more talent around Maye and do whatever they can to put him in a position to succeed.

 

[AQPE]

@Rob0729 and @Ring 6 I agree (and disagree) with you both. The free agent OTs available last offseason were not great options, but still the Pats FO (in combination with the coaches who were likely involved) dropped the ball miserably by thinking Okorafor, Anderson, Wheatley, McDermott, and Wallace were suitable. Everyone could see the OL was a major fiasco last year, probably the key reason Mac Jones pooped himself weekly. They are paid to do a hell of a lot better than then what they did.

With the money they left on the table they would have made the team better by overpaying a mediocre player like Jonah Williams, and when Cam Robinson and D.J. Humphries became available they should have done what was necessary to get them at least through this season to give Maybe more of an opportunity to succeed. @Wozzy has mentioned Oli Udoh and Yosh Nisman. I have to think those guys were better options than Demontrey Jacobs and the other dude whose name escapes me they had out there at LT this season, or trying to convert Wallace to LT on the fly. Instead they shopped the bargain bin and got what they paid for.

They also have to look hard at how Scott Peters and whoever is assisting him coaching OL is performing. If his system is too complicated that is unacceptable.

This does not portend well going forward unless those responsible change their evaluation process or new people who can do better are brought in.

 

[Ring 6]

Spending a lot of money on garbage players don't make them good players. Paying Mekhi Becton $10 million a year will not make not a bust of a player. Giving Trent Brown money wouldn't have made him try hard.

Yes, the Patriots needed more on the o-line. Unfortunately, the past free agency was the worst free agency I can remember for o-line talent. Having a crapload of money doesn't change the talent in free agency. Signing crap players just because you have money (and the Patriots did that BTW) doesn't change that. I mean they did sign Chukwuma Okorafor, who was a decent tackle for the Steelers for a few years, and Nick Leverett this past offseason. And look, money turn them into starters.

The good news in the 2025 free agent class will have better o-line talent and the Pats will have more money. And based on reports the Kraft have already been calling around for advice on how to put more talent around Maye and do whatever they can to put him in a position to succeed.

Getting better players makes a better football team.

40,000,000 of cap space indirect makes you a bad team.

Benton is a great example. He doesn’t make $10,000,000 he makes $2,750,000, less that we paid Chunks to quit after 12 plays, and he has started 13 games and played 777 snaps for the 12-2 Eagles.
I guess the Eagles are lucky they didn’t think there were no OL in free agency and wait to pick up waiver wire guys to start.
Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Ring 6]

@Rob0729 and @Ring 6 I agree (and disagree) with you both. The free agent OTs available last offseason were not great options, but still the Pats FO (in combination with the coaches who were likely involved) dropped the ball miserably by thinking Okorafor, Anderson, Wheatley, McDermott, and Wallace were suitable. Everyone could see the OL was a major fiasco last year, probably the key reason Mac Jones pooped himself weekly. They are paid to do a hell of a lot better than then what they did.

With the money they left on the table they would have made the team better by overpaying a mediocre player like Jonah Williams, and when Cam Robinson and D.J. Humphries became available they should have done what was necessary to get them at least through this season to give Maybe more of an opportunity to succeed. @Wozzy has mentioned Oli Udoh and Yosh Nisman. I have to think those guys were better options than Demontrey Jacobs and the other dude whose name escapes me they had out there at LT this season, or trying to convert Wallace to LT on the fly. Instead they shopped the bargain bin and got what they paid for.

They also have to look hard at how Scott Peters and whoever is assisting him coaching OL is performing. If his system is too complicated that is unacceptable.

This does not portend well going forward unless those responsible change their evaluation process or new people who can do better are brought in.

The bar is very low for what would be better than we have. Becton would have been far better, you mentioned Jonah Williams who played better against us Sunday than any of our OTs have played all year. Smith was signed by the jets and we didn’t even try.
Literally we picked up waiver guys and made them starters. It is ridiculous to think guys who other teams signed in free agency are worse than waiver wire starters.

 

[Rob0729]

Getting better players makes a better football team.

40,000,000 of cap space indirect makes you a bad team.

Benton is a great example. He doesn’t make $10,000,000 he makes $2,750,000, less that we paid Chunks to quit after 12 plays, and he has started 13 games and played 777 snaps for the 12-2 Eagles.
I guess the Eagles are lucky they didn’t think there were no OL in free agency and wait to pick up waiver wire guys to start.
Thanks for proving my point.

$40 million in cap space doesn't manufacture good players in free agency.

You do realize that the Eagles moved BECTON to RG? He isn't playing LT for them. They realized he couldn't play tackle and moved him to guard.

And he was one piece plugged into a solid o-line. Easier to hide his limitations. Adding Becton at RG to this team would do very little to stop the problems on this o-line because there are so many issues at every other spot. The Patriots' o-line is not a RG away from being upgraded to awful.

 

[Rob0729]

@Rob0729 and @Ring 6 I agree (and disagree) with you both. The free agent OTs available last offseason were not great options, but still the Pats FO (in combination with the coaches who were likely involved) dropped the ball miserably by thinking Okorafor, Anderson, Wheatley, McDermott, and Wallace were suitable. Everyone could see the OL was a major fiasco last year, probably the key reason Mac Jones pooped himself weekly. They are paid to do a hell of a lot better than then what they did.

With the money they left on the table they would have made the team better by overpaying a mediocre player like Jonah Williams, and when Cam Robinson and D.J. Humphries became available they should have done what was necessary to get them at least through this season to give Maybe more of an opportunity to succeed. @Wozzy has mentioned Oli Udoh and Yosh Nisman. I have to think those guys were better options than Demontrey Jacobs and the other dude whose name escapes me they had out there at LT this season, or trying to convert Wallace to LT on the fly. Instead they shopped the bargain bin and got what they paid for.

They also have to look hard at how Scott Peters and whoever is assisting him coaching OL is performing. If his system is too complicated that is unacceptable.

This does not portend well going forward unless those responsible change their evaluation process or new people who can do better are brought in.

Cam Robinson will be available in free agency. He was a replacement for a great LT who went on season ending IR. No way the Vikings keep him. I think he should be a top priority for the Patriots this next offseason. He may be the best LT available and he is a very good pass blocker.

This upcoming offseason has better o-linemen in free agency including Robinson.

The only way the Pats were going to upgrade their o-line last offseason was a trade (which probably not happening) or the draft. Unfortunately, all of the best tackles were off the board between the Maye pick and when they drafted in the second round. They dropped the ball in a lot of areas of building this team, but they had no shot of remotely fixing the o-line in free agency last year. There was no talent.

 

[Ring 6]

$40 million in cap space doesn't manufacture good players in free agency.

You do realize that the Eagles moved BECTON to RG? He isn't playing LT for them. They realized he couldn't play tackle and moved him to guard.

And he was one piece plugged into a solid o-line. Easier to hide his limitations. Adding Becton at RG to this team would do very little to stop the problems on this o-line because there are so many issues at every other spot. The Patriots' o-line is not a RG away from being upgraded to awful.

Bectin would be better than our LG. He would be better than any of our Ts.
There were literally dozens of free agent OL better than what we are playing.

Your argument seems to be we can’t get an all pro LT so getting better OL players is useless, let’s just throw crap out there.

 

[TommyD4207]

There were no tackles of note. One or two old guys who only wanted to go to contenders on on year deals. That was it.

The Pats didn't need a center or either a RG or RT (depending on where they put Onwenu). Could they have upgraded the LG position. You can argue they failed there, but they tried to fill that in the draft.

They didn't need to be 'of note'.
They just had to be able to play at a below-league-average NFL level.

Instead, we ran out Amazon Delivery Drivers.

 

[Ring 6]

They didn't need to be 'of note'.
They just had to be able to play at a below-league-average NFL level.

Instead, we ran out Amazon Delivery Drivers.

No he thinks the worst OL in the NFL with a half dozen waiver claims and 30+ starts from waiver claims was the very best we could do.

 

[TommyD4207]

No he thinks the worst OL in the NFL with a half dozen waiver claims and 30+ starts from waiver claims was the very best we could do.

At least there's 100 million in cap space.

 

[Ring 6]

At least there's 100 million in cap space.

There was last year too. No reason to believe we will do the right thing with it.

 

[captain stone]

At least there's 100 million in cap space.

So we've got that going for us...