Wolf has made worse GM decisions than post Brady BB

[farn]

getting Maye was very important. Starting in April, things need to tilt. Otherwise, I think the braintrust is in trouble.

Kraft isn’t very smart. But he reads and sees people bashing his club. His pride won’t allow him to stand by, imo, which is great as I have no faith in his intelligence.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

The draft has, so far, been really bad outside of Maye. However, I bet most of us would have called Anfernee Jennings a bad pick after year 1. It doesn't look good, but it's not totally inconceivable to me that a few of the guys taken could still go on to have good careers.

Free agency hasn't produced any results, but they hardly spent any money. With the amount of money they spent, I don't exactly fault them for failing to get much production. The decision in question is more on their philosophical decision to spend no money. Was that ownership pocketing money? If so, not sure the GM should really be in the cross hairs over it because what is he supposed to do really? Or was it something the football guys felt was best to "bottom out" this year and/or focus on development? If so, that's a multi year plan intentionally designed for bad results in year 1 and flushing out guys who can't play, so it's hard to get on the GM for exactly that happening.

I'd be happy making a switch because quire frankly it didn't seem this regime really deserved to be put in place in the first place. They kept their whole operation just getting rid of the guy who was the head of it in BB. Did they really think this was a well-oiled machine Bill was holding back? That's ludicrous if they did. And the bad draft outside of Maye is very discouraging. The free agency stuff I'm not going to crucify them for yet because it was clearly a multi year plan so it'd be unfair to kick and scream they didn't land a bunch of studs for no money (that's not realistic).

 

[Patsfan1645]

It shouldn't be surprising that Wolf and Groh suck, if you stop for a minute and logically use your head have to surely come to the conclusion they've been influencing the terrible drafting for years, i know Bill had final say but he isn't god there's only so many hours in the day to coach a football team and scout players.

Common sense tells you he didn't pick bad players alone, he also took bad information from people like Wolf and Groh.

Given everything we seen for 20 years there's no way Tyquan Thornton was a Bill Belichick pick.

He was the head coach...he owns it.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok, you replied earlier that I said you felt they were a “great” destination. I didn’t say that. It’s a lie, so if you’re going to lie, there’s no point in having a discussion.

Again, you believe Washington had no more talent on the roster, and that Dan Quinn is just a retread. Compared to Mayo, and the mess the Patriots were at the time, I feel differently. Which is fine. As I’ve said, it is what it is.

You making up something and saying I said it is a lie. Me calling you out and paraphrasing is not a lie. But I agree there is no point in having a discussion when you are being childish and disingenuous.
continue to make excuses for failure and ignore facts if that makes you feel better.

 

[Ring 6]

The draft has, so far, been really bad outside of Maye. However, I bet most of us would have called Anfernee Jennings a bad pick after year 1. It doesn't look good, but it's not totally inconceivable to me that a few of the guys taken could still go on to have good careers.

Free agency hasn't produced any results, but they hardly spent any money. With the amount of money they spent, I don't exactly fault them for failing to get much production. The decision in question is more on their philosophical decision to spend no money. Was that ownership pocketing money? If so, not sure the GM should really be in the cross hairs over it because what is he supposed to do really? Or was it something the football guys felt was best to "bottom out" this year and/or focus on development? If so, that's a multi year plan intentionally designed for bad results in year 1 and flushing out guys who can't play, so it's hard to get on the GM for exactly that happening.

I'd be happy making a switch because quire frankly it didn't seem this regime really deserved to be put in place in the first place. They kept their whole operation just getting rid of the guy who was the head of it in BB. Did they really think this was a well-oiled machine Bill was holding back? That's ludicrous if they did. And the bad draft outside of Maye is very discouraging. The free agency stuff I'm not going to crucify them for yet because it was clearly a multi year plan so it'd be unfair to kick and scream they didn't land a bunch of studs for no money (that's not realistic).

They spent over 25 mill on brissett, Bourne, Osborne, Gibson, chunks, leverrete, Hooper and almost and another 20 on Henry, Stevenson and Onwenu. That’s 45 mill spent and 6 draft picks used on offense and despite the rookie qb looking good we have remained 31st in points and dropped from 30 to 32 in yards.

 

[Steve102]

I'll also throw in the fact that you can only pick the best of the worst groceries available with Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe as your QB, a no-name coach, and no skill players (we had no tight ends signed in March and a worse WR group than we have now...if that's even possible). So nobody wanted to come here. No amount of money was enough for that. I'm not making excuses, it's just reality. And if you read what I wrote today, I'm also not exactly giving the coaches a pass for what's going on here.

But free agent-wise, I really believe that will be different next March. I'd judge Wolf based on what he does next March forward. But they had no chance this past offseason from a free agent standpoint. And obviously, the results are what they are.

And it's a little early to judge the draft. Those always take a couple of years before you really have a sense of guys, especially later-round players. Polk is still figuring it out and I feel like he'll at least be more valuable than Thortnon, Wallace is hurt but he could be a future starter at RT if they take a LT next year. Bell might also pan out, and Robinson just needs to get stronger. So who knows.

Everyone is holding hope against hope for the FA period next year. I maintain (to the point of being a broken record) that you can only pick from the available pool. The WR class has a deep name recognition, but a closer look reveals that there's guys past their expiration, some injury concerns or with a history of malcontentitis. The OT class, both left and right, is thin. You're not going to bolster the rooms on one off season like Bill did the season before 2001. The areas that the Pats are most dire in: OT, WR and Edge are perhaps the most sought after in the NFL, save for QB, which luckily they seem to have fixed.

My point is they need an overhaul of the scouting, grading and evaluation process of players before drafting more "Bill Type Guys" this next off season. I was buoyed by the pick against type of Baker, but he's proven to be the poster child of why Bill didn't pick knuckleheads like him. They need an infusion of fresh faces and fresh ideas in the organization, from the top down. I am not optimistic that we will see any change until those running the operation are changed.

 

[PatsFan2]

Passing on McConkey for Polk is going to go down a one of the stupidest decisions this team has made. It was inexplicable at the time, and now it is a fireable offense

Wolf outsmarted himself the two guys he got have yet to hit a 100yds combined on the season. Ladd McConkey on the other hand...

Ladd McConkey - Los Angeles Chargers Wide Receiver - ESPN

View the profile of Los Angeles Chargers Wide Receiver Ladd McConkey on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

 

[Ian]

You making up something and saying I said it is a lie. Me calling you out and paraphrasing is not a lie. But I agree there is no point in having a discussion when you are being childish and disingenuous.
continue to make excuses for failure and ignore facts if that makes you feel better.

No, what's childish is "calling me out" because you didn't like my use of word. I used "desirable" - you then said I claimed you used the word "great" - which I didn't do. I then responded that I didn't say you used the word "great" - which you accused me of claiming you said.

The fact I just had to type that is ridiculous. And clearly paraphrasing is a one-way street in this conversation.

At the end of the day - the point ultimately is, I guess you're going to need to explain to me what "word" best fits your definition. Because either way, you clearly feel the Patriots were a destination players shouldn't have had an issue with. Should they have been "indifferent" to coming here? I'll let you tell me. Because barring being "excited" to come here, that's not going to move the needle when it came down to money. I don't know where you stand, but if I'm a good player and have people bidding on me, I'm not packing up my house and family and going just anywhere. I'm going to what I would feel would be the best opportunity for me to succeed. I'm going to get paid anyway.

All things being equal - or even slightly higher - they chose elsewhere. Although, you've already said that there is no evidence that Wolf attempted to sign anyone outside of who ultimately came here.

I will add that his father was one of the best GMs in the business, and I feel like part of what he might have learned was to at least do his due diligence and explore every option. You've already told me that "You are basing everything on a belief that what he did must not be what he wanted to do because that would make him incompetent and you refuse to accept he could be incompetent rather than showing me any competence." I told you I've reached this conclusion based on an educated guess.

I also told you that if I'm wrong and he didn't inquire outside of who we signed, he should be fired. Anyone who would sign Chukwuma Okorafor and not make an attempt to inquire about anyone better doesn't deserve to be a GM in the NFL. Anyone who only made less than a dozen phone calls as an NFL GM in two months and picked the bottom of the barrel of players doesn't deserve to hold the duty. I've argued that he likely explored all the options and guys said "thanks, but no thanks" and picked other destinations. You disagree. Which is fine.

I've also said, I'm not on an island with this opinion. People who actually matter and are far brighter than me and get paid to do this for a living felt this way. There have also been columns written recently by several writers that Maye's ascension is going to significantly alter this landscape next March. This isn't just my idea.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Everyone is holding hope against hope for the FA period next year. I maintain (to the point of being a broken record) that you can only pick from the available pool. The WR class has a deep name recognition, but a closer look reveals that there's guys past their expiration, some injury concerns or with a history of malcontentitis. The OT class, both left and right, is thin. You're not going to bolster the rooms on one off season like Bill did the season before 2001. The areas that the Pats are most dire in: OT, WR and Edge are perhaps the most sought after in the NFL, save for QB, which luckily they seem to have fixed.

This point is spot on. Free agency isn't the game changer that a lot of people seem to think it is, both because the pickings are getting worse and we aren't a lure for top talent.

Which makes the draft all the more important. We can't really afford another draft where one pick hits and the rest take years to develop (if ever). I think Wolf gets another year. But if the draft and free agency continue to be bad, I don't think he gets a third.

 

[Ring 6]

No, what's childish is "calling me out" because you didn't like my use of word. I used "desirable" - you then said I claimed you used the word "great" - which I didn't do. I then responded that I didn't say you used the word "great" - which you accused me of claiming you said.

The fact I just had to type that is ridiculous. And clearly paraphrasing is a one-way street in this conversation.

At the end of the day - the point ultimately is, I guess you're going to need to explain to me what "word" best fits your definition. Because either way, you clearly feel the Patriots were a destination players shouldn't have had an issue with. Should they have been "indifferent" to coming here? I'll let you tell me. Because barring being "excited" to come here, that's not going to move the needle when it came down to money. I don't know where you stand, but if I'm a good player and have people bidding on me, I'm not packing up my house and family and going just anywhere. I'm going to what I would feel would be the best opportunity for me to succeed.

All things being equal - or even slightly higher - they chose elsewhere. Although, you've already said that there is no evidence that Wolf attempted to sign anyone outside of who ultimately came here.

I will add that his father was one of the best GMs in the business, and I feel like part of what he might have learned was to at least do his due diligence and explore every option. You've already told me that "You are basing everything on a belief that what he did must not be what he wanted to do because that would make him incompetent and you refuse to accept he could be incompetent rather than showing me any competence." I told you I've reached this conclusion based on an educated guess.

I also told you that if I'm wrong and he didn't inquire outside of who we signed, he should be fired. Anyone who would sign Chukwuma Okorafor and not make an attempt to inquire about anyone better doesn't deserve to be a GM in the NFL. Anyone who only made less than a dozen phone calls as an NFL GM in two months and picked the bottom of the barrel of players doesn't deserve to hold the duty. I've argued that he likely explored all the options and guys said "thanks, but no thanks" and picked other destinations. You disagree. Which is fine.

I've also said, I'm not on an island with this opinion. People who actually matter and are far brighter than me and get paid to do this for a living felt this way. There have also been columns written recently by several writers that Maye's ascension is going to significantly alter this landscape next March. This isn't just my idea.

i didn’t “call you out” over the use of a word, I called you out for making up something and attributing it to me. You called me a liar because I repeated it with “great” rather than “desirable” and yes that is childish.

Who chose elsewhere? Other than Ridley there is no report or evidence of anyone pursued that didn’t sign here. You literally making up that we tried to sign guys who said FU your team sucks.
There is plenty of evidence that many free agents sign with bad teams. No evidence that we lost out on ones we wanted, but you deem it a fact that we lost out on players because they wouldn’t come here. Again with zero to back it up.
If no one wanted to come here, why did we sign players at every position we wanted to?


So now you are asking me to repeat what I’ve said many times? Many free agents sign with bad teams. Few free agents “chase championships” and many more prioritize the best contract and the best opportunity for playing time and opportunity. It has never been a fact that bad teams can’t attract free agents. It’s something you made up, outside of a couple aged veterans a year looking for a ring and WRs who partially base their decision on the opportunity the QB presents for them. Players who are ruling out teams for those 2 reasons would rule out the patriots and there were barely more than zero players doing that, as there are every year. The facts back that up.

I have ASKED if there is any evidence of players other than Ridley who expressed and didn’t sign. You showed me none, not had anyone else, or my research. What does that tell you?

His father being a GM doesn’t make him qualified. Yes, he had positions he wanted to sign FAs at and he filled every one of them. Why are you assuming these weren’t the guys he wanted?

Look at it:

QB Brissett was his first choice
Rb Gibson was signed early and no reports were made of interest in anyone else
WR he signed Osborne and Bourne and drafted 2.
TE he signed 2 and drafted 1
OL chunks and Wallace was his answer. He said during camp that we have all the pieces for a good OL. There is no question he felt he did his job and his evaluations were terrible.

On defense clearly he felt he was all set because he did almost nothing. Or are you telling me defensive players shunned playing in a BB defense with Bb disciples running it?

At least we agree that unless there were some mysterious clandestine efforts that no one knew about, including “People who actually matter and are far brighter than me and get paid to do this for a living” that he did a terrible job and deserves to be fired.
We just disagree about the things you think he did secretly that no one knows about.

 

[Ian]

i didn’t “call you out” over the use of a word, I called you out for making up something and attributing it to me. You called me a liar because I repeated it with “great” rather than “desirable” and yes that is childish.

I'm going to need you to re-read the above and tell me who out of the two of us is being childish.

And I threw that last part back at you verbatim to what you posted. If it bothered you, then hopefully, you see how I might have also received it. Calling me a "liar" over the use of a word I didn't use is a little frustrating, but calling me a "liar" at all is the annoying part over something so ridiculous. Regardless of the fact that at no point have I misrepresented your overall opinion in context to this discussion.

And I'll have to apologize because maybe it's because I'm only through one cup of coffee, along with the fact there were the errors with the server I had to deal with this morning, but my irritant level is now a little elevated.

I'm going to end this here. You're more than welcome to show me where I "made up something and attributed it to you." I've re-read every post, and aside from - albeit somewhat sarcastically - alluding to the fact you felt the Patriots should have been an "acceptable" destination (I used the word "desirable" - my word, not yours, maybe "acceptable" would be better...? Again, you tell me.), there was no other point I misrepresented based on the opinion you've conveyed in any previous post(s).

I guess I should also add that you didn't say they were an "acceptable" destination in any previous post, which it appears I'll need to do moving forward because one of us is permitted to paraphrase while the other is not.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Drake Maye so far looks like a franchise changer. There are definitely some QB needy teams that would of been ok with a draft with just him being the prize. However, like most, It’s tough to get over passing on McConkey. Missed opportunity to plug two holes with your first 2 picks. If they made that QB/WR connection everyone isn’t focusing down this draft with a fine comb. Maye by himself is enough to get the franchise excited, Maye and McConkey would of put us a year ahead of the rebuild. Now we are looking like a top 10 pick again and it seems the fanbase is either split between Ot and Wr. That kind of sucks.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If I were Drake Maye, I would’ve told the Pats to not draft me. Now, he should ask for a trade this offseason.

This one proud franchise has become a graveyard. The horrendous drafting has gone on for 10 years now. Maye is going to end up being a bust if this type of drafting and personnel moves continues.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

He was the head coach...he owns it.

Saying "he owns it" does not recognize the problem. Who cares about the past and who owns what? That will not impact getting back to the SB. What will impact being a winning team is not repeating the same stupid scouting mistakes because "BB owns" the past mistakes so we have to make new mistakes in order to recognize there is a problem. So ridiculous. The guys that were under BB are still employed by the Pats and making the same stupid mistakes with the same stupid scouting methodology. When will the ownership stop the same people from making the same stupid mistakes? When looking forward, let's hope RK and JK are smarter than the posters here who are looking to blame the past coaching.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The horrendous drafting has gone on for 10 years now. Maye is going to end up being a bust if this type of drafting and personnel moves continues.

BB owns the horrendous drafting - there the drafting mistakes are fixed going forward. Just blame BB and the problems all go away.

 

[Ian]

Drake Maye so far looks like a franchise changer. There are definitely some QB needy teams that would of been ok with a draft with just him being the prize. However, like most, It’s tough to get over passing on McConkey. Missed opportunity to plug two holes with your first 2 picks. If they made that QB/WR connection everyone isn’t focusing down this draft with a fine comb. Maye by himself is enough to get the franchise excited, Maye and McConkey would of put us a year ahead of the rebuild. Now we are looking like a top 10 pick again and it seems the fanbase is either split between Ot and Wr. That kind of sucks.

I don't think you can skip on an OT next offseason...I think they're stuck there. The only potential thing I could see would be if the pick remains a top 5 selection, I think they'll flip that and try and get two firsts, and then use capital with the second first to move up and grab two high picks, likely a OT (they obviously desperately need a LT) and then maybe a WR or whatever else. And I think they'll be in position to do so given that aside from this Indy game, it's a rough road to the end of the season.

 

[Real fan 02]

I'll also throw in the fact that you can only pick the best of the worst groceries available with Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe as your QB, a no-name coach, and no skill players (we had no tight ends signed in March and a worse WR group than we have now...if that's even possible). So nobody wanted to come here. No amount of money was enough for that. I'm not making excuses, it's just reality. And if you read what I wrote today, I'm also not exactly giving the coaches a pass for what's going on here.

But free agent-wise, I really believe that will be different next March. I'd judge Wolf based on what he does next March forward. But they had no chance this past offseason from a free agent standpoint. And obviously, the results are what they are.

And it's a little early to judge the draft. Those always take a couple of years before you really have a sense of guys, especially later-round players. Polk is still figuring it out and I feel like he'll at least be more valuable than Thortnon, Wallace is hurt but he could be a future starter at RT if they take a LT next year. Bell might also pan out, and Robinson just needs to get stronger. So who knows.

I never really look for rookies to be spectacular in year one at the WR position. That's just something I've become accustomed too being a patriots fan. Of this FAs listed KJ won't be here, I don't know on Hawkins, and my guy gibby has been being mis-used for the most part.

getting Maye was very important. Starting in April, things need to tilt. Otherwise, I think the braintrust is in trouble.

Kraft isn’t very smart. But he reads and sees people bashing his club. His pride won’t allow him to stand by, imo, which is great as I have no faith in his intelligence.

If I were Drake Maye, I would’ve told the Pats to not draft me. Now, he should ask for a trade this offseason.

This one proud franchise has become a graveyard. The horrendous drafting has gone on for 10 years now. Maye is going to end up being a bust if this type of drafting and personnel moves continues.

I believe drakes demeanor and his moxy are what make him the type of QB to make it here. He knows exactly what he has around him and what he will need to be able to maximize his full potential. I really feel confident that some big pieces will be added around him to help him. Let's be honest they have too thier jobs are on the line.

 

[Toofy]

And to think that broncos after expending valuable assets on Russell Wilson , Sean Payton and the massive dead cap with Wilson release and with an relatively inferior rookie QB than Maye look like playoff contenders in a season speaks volumes about our coaching , drafting and off-season .


Not sure how you can give maye and wolf 1 more season when broncos can do much more with less.

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't think you can skip on an OT next offseason...I think they're stuck there. The only potential thing I could see would be if the pick remains a top 5 selection, I think they'll flip that and try and get two firsts, and then use capital with the second first to move up and grab two high picks, likely a OT (they obviously desperately need a LT) and then maybe a WR or whatever else. And I think they'll be in position to do so given that aside from this Indy game, it's a rough road to the end of the season.

Highly agree. RK should just skip the 2 Buffalo games that will be over after the first snap. He knows what his team is right now. I'm super anxious to get to the off season I don't think most fans really care anymore what happens the rest of season.

 

[sb1]

I wanted McConkey too but if you look at his scouting profile it's hard to blame teams if they hesitated on picking him with all the injuries he's had. Some of them sound chronic.

NFL Draft Injury Impact: Georgia WR Ladd McConkey | Cover 1

Kyle Trimble breaks down the injury concerns with Georgia WR Ladd McConkey. Will he be a top selection for the Bills?

www.cover1.net