Greg Bedard: Pats coaching staff already at a troubling crossroads

[Steve102]

Playing the long game only makes sense if the right resources are in place. Playing the long game with the wrong resources in place is known as wasting time. With the exception possibly of Wolfe, I think it's too early write off all the post-BB hires, but there is certainly cause for concern, given the team's continuing, perhaps accelerating, decline.

I think we are not even close to being on the same page. If all the resources are in place, then the expectations would be that the team plays at a high level. With continued poor performance, you'll be looking for fall guys. That's how HCs and GMs lose their jobs. Year one of a new regime, where your new draftee is sitting and everyone in the organization is preaching patience? No way. They are going to have every opportunity to put their stamp on this team and right the ship.

Bill got here in 2000, came in with support from the defense leaders and had a phenomenal off season his second year. The core of the SB36 team was already here: Law, Bruschi, Johnson, Milloy, Vinatieri, McGinest were all in place. All those great FA signings worked, plus Seymour and Light were wins in the draft and Brady became the starter. We have no idea if there's a core here like that now.

 

[Tunescribe]

It's a meme.

​

 

[Thelonious]

I think we are not even close to being on the same page. If all the resources are in place, then the expectations would be that the team plays at a high level. With continued poor performance, you'll be looking for fall guys. That's how HCs and GMs lose their jobs. Year one of a new regime, where your new draftee is sitting and everyone in the organization is preaching patience? No way. They are going to have every opportunity to put their stamp on this team and right the ship.

Bill got here in 2000, came in with support from the defense leaders and had a phenomenal off season his second year. The core of the SB36 team was already here: Law, Bruschi, Johnson, Milloy, Vinatieri, McGinest were all in place. All those great FA signings worked, plus Seymour and Light were wins in the draft and Brady became the starter. We have no idea if there's a core here like that now.

Well. I think we have a pretty good idea such a pantheon of greats is not is place at present. Sometimes guys lose their jobs unjustifiably as "fall guys." Sometimes, though, guys lose their jobs because they are not, or are no longer, any good at those jobs.

 

[Steve102]

Well. I think we have a pretty good idea such a pantheon of greats is not is place at present. Sometimes guys lose their jobs unjustifiably as "fall guys." Sometimes, though, guys lose their jobs because they are not, or are no longer, any good at those jobs.

If Maye is a success, it'll be amazing how smart these guys get overnight.

 

[Ring 6]

He's Kraft's chosen one. He's going to get more than enough opportunity to fail. I am sure "Thunder" (Gawd that's awful) is giving him a mulligan on this year. The clock on Mayo until next year.

I'm not so sure on Wolf. The line situation is really troubling. Until that's fixed, they are going to be bad, I don't care if Tom Brady walks in the door. His clock is ticking now, but he's got one more off-season to get it right.

If Tom Brady walked in the door as OC the line play would immediately improve because he would recognize it for what it is and scheme around it a hell of a lot better than the stooge we have.
Tom Brady wouldn’t leave a waiver claim one in one with Nick Bosa.

 

[Thelonious]

If Maye is a success, it'll be amazing how smart these guys get overnight.

In the minds of those whose minds are swayed by an isolated fact, I suppose. I prefer to take all facts into account in making evaluations.

 

[Ring 6]

If Maye is a success, it'll be amazing how smart these guys get overnight.

Maye has no chance of being a success if the front office continues to construct rosters the way they have constructed this one.

 

[Clonamery]

If Maye is a success, it'll be amazing how smart these guys get overnight.

We shall see if Maye Tunafies Mayo the way Bledsoe did his HC..

 

[captain stone]

You can't jump ship after one year, you need to build stability and give these people a chance to right the ship. Bad teams keep changing people in position and it doesn't work.

That would be true, if it were their first year here… But Wolfie’s been in the room since the “We ok with this?” drafting of Corky in 2021; and Al Groh’ kid has “ass-isted” Billy in ****ing-up drafts since the day he left college over a dozen years ago. He absolutely, positively Goes First, no questions asked; but at this point I think it’s time for Wolfie to go too: his acquisitions in both free agency & the draft this past, critical off-season were amateurish Failures.

 

[Rob0729]

Kraft has gone very soft and I'll attribute that to age. In my 31 years as season ticket holder, this is the first time I've questioned his commitment to fielding a competitive team. I fear his man-crush on Mayo was more about Jerod's personal profile than the substance needed to be a successful head coach. During a preseason press chat when he ruefully quipped, "I just hope we don't struggle too much," I thought, whoa there, Bob. Isn't it your responsibility to prevent that, ESPECIALLY after going 4-13? If you have anticipate "struggle" coming via Mayo and Wolf before the season even starts, perhaps you made the wrong choices (in addition to holding those purse strings too tight).



Yes, perhaps we're being harshly premature and Mayo will right the ship. But since Cincy, the ship has listed worse each week, due at least in part to questionable coaching.

You are too young to remember the pre-Brady/Belichick era. I think Kraft chose Mayo in a similar way that he chose Belichick. He has said as much. It was more about how he feels about the guy working with him. Doesn't mean he will strike lightning in the bottle twice.

But I will tell you this. After the 2000 and before the 2001 season many in New England especially in the media were wondering whether Belichick would make it through the 2001 before Kraft fired him. So there were a lot of people questioning Belichick even after one complete season.

But I think Kraft is realistic about this being a several year rebuild process. I am actually glad he didn't look at his age and think he only has so many years on this Earth and went crazy trying to buy a contender. Maybe it might have gotten him a better front office and coaching staff, maybe not. But free agency sucked this year and I am glad they didn't overspend on a lot of garbage.

 

[PatsFan2]

If Tom Brady walked in the door as OC the line play would immediately improve because he would recognize it for what it is and scheme around it a hell of a lot better than the stooge we have.
Tom Brady wouldn’t leave a waiver claim one in one with Nick Bosa.

That's why I question AVP it's like he simulates the game playing Madden the game sliders are set so even a sucky OL gives you decent time to throw. I am sure he knows that Bosa is one of the better DE's in the game but AVP acts like we have second coming of Bruce Armstrong @ LT.

 

[Tunescribe]

You are too young to remember the pre-Brady/Belichick era.

Why would you conclude that -- especially after I said I've had season tickets since 1994? I started attending games in Foxboro during Raymond Berry's tenure.

I think Kraft chose Mayo in a similar way that he chose Belichick. He has said as much. It was more about how he feels about the guy working with him. Doesn't mean he will strike lightning in the bottle twice.

There's no comparison. Belichick had a pretty thorough resume/track record, including a Super Bowl ring as DC. Kraft said he went with his gut on both hires but going with Mayo was a monumental leap of faith, comparatively speaking.

But I will tell you this. After the 2000 and before the 2001 season many in New England especially in the media were wondering whether Belichick would make it through the 2001 before Kraft fired him. So there were a lot of people questioning Belichick even after one complete season.

Again, BB had already run a program in Cleveland and was a very successful assistant elsewhere including as coordinator. I don't recall much consternation from fans or media after his first year here.

But I think Kraft is realistic about this being a several year rebuild process. I am actually glad he didn't look at his age and think he only has so many years on this Earth and went crazy trying to buy a contender. Maybe it might have gotten him a better front office and coaching staff, maybe not. But free agency sucked this year and I am glad they didn't overspend on a lot of garbage.

Oh, I disagree completely. After consecutive losing seasons and ESPECIALLY 4-13, "going crazy trying to buy a contender" would've been just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Ring 6]

You are too young to remember the pre-Brady/Belichick era. I think Kraft chose Mayo in a similar way that he chose Belichick. He has said as much. It was more about how he feels about the guy working with him. Doesn't mean he will strike lightning in the bottle twice.

But I will tell you this. After the 2000 and before the 2001 season many in New England especially in the media were wondering whether Belichick would make it through the 2001 before Kraft fired him. So there were a lot of people questioning Belichick even after one complete season.

But I think Kraft is realistic about this being a several year rebuild process. I am actually glad he didn't look at his age and think he only has so many years on this Earth and went crazy trying to buy a contender. Maybe it might have gotten him a better front office and coaching staff, maybe not. But free agency sucked this year and I am glad they didn't overspend on a lot of garbage.

Wolf acquired 16 players on offense between FA and the draft. The only holdovers he didn’t try to replace were Stevenson and Andrews.
He didn’t avoid free agency, he did a piss poor job at it.

 

[Rob0729]

Why would you conclude that -- especially after I said I've had season tickets since 1994? I started attending games in Foxboro during Raymond Berry's tenure.



There's no comparison. Belichick had a pretty thorough resume/track record, including a Super Bowl ring as DC. Kraft said he went with his gut on both hires but going with Mayo was a monumental leap of faith, comparatively speaking.



Again, BB had already run a program in Cleveland and was a very successful assistant elsewhere including as coordinator. I don't recall much consternation from fans or media after his first year here.



Oh, I disagree completely. After consecutive losing seasons and ESPECIALLY 4-13, "going crazy trying to buy a contender" would've been just what the doctor ordered.

I misread your post. I thought you were saying you were 31.

And buying a contender almost never works especially if there is a weak free agent class. We could have paid top dollar for the best LT on the market - Trent Freakin' Brown. I mean the Bengals paid him money to mail it in before he got injured and was lost for the year. If there was a good free agent market, I might agree with you. It wasn't.

Stupid teams overpay for bad to average talent. I am glad they didn't spend too much on this offseason because there really wasn't anything worth spending on in areas of needs at the time. If there was good players at areas of needs, then you can trash them about spending.

But the best way to build a contender is to do it patently. Build through the draft and spend strategically on free agents. The Pats spent big bucks in 2021 and three years later only Hunter Henry and Bourne are even on the roster. Half the guys didn't pan out. And they had one playoff appearance to show for it.

And being a great DC does not make you a great HC. No one was sure that Belichick was going to be very good when Kraft got him to come here. In fact, many said he was stupid to give up a first for him. And many wanted him fired after 2000.

And I am not saying Mayo is Belichick. I am saying it is the same thought process. And Mayo could turn into a brilliant head coach. Who knows? He could also be fired in a year or two.

 

[Rob0729]

Wolf acquired 16 players on offense between FA and the draft. The only holdovers he didn’t try to replace were Stevenson and Andrews.
He didn’t avoid free agency, he did a piss poor job at it.

First, who was available in free agency that they passed on that was a mistake? Trent Brown? There was garbage available on offense. He signed depth players for the most part. He did sign one of the top WRs available in free agent in K.J. Osborn. That is how bad the WR market was.

 

[Ring 6]

First, who was available in free agency that they passed on that was a mistake? Trent Brown? There was garbage available on offense. He signed depth players for the most part. He did sign one of the top WRs available in free agent in K.J. Osborn. That is how bad the WR market was.

Hahahahaha

No the other 31 teams signed bad free agents and we were smarter than that which is why we have the worst offense in the NFL.

you are clowning yourself.

 

[Rob0729]

Hahahahaha

No the other 31 teams signed bad free agents and we were smarter than that which is why we have the worst offense in the NFL.

you are clowning yourself.

Name the players the Pats should have signed that are doing great in the league right now.

Other teams that signed the top players were in different situations. I don't think there was any one team that spent a lot of on free agency this year.

The Titans beat the Pats out for Calvin Ridley (the top WR in free agency) and Titans have the same record as the Patriots and Ridley has 141 yards and 1 TD (plus one rushing TD) in four games so far.

I do know the Eagles were praised for spending in free agency and stealing their chief rival's star player. They have one more win than the Pats right now and look like crap.

 

[Real fan 02]

A great QB on a bad team is still a bad team. Justin Herbert has been one of the best QB's in the league, his teams have still stunk. In five seasons he has played in one playoff game and lost.

Despite the promises by hero worshipping fanboys here, a great QB doesn't make a team great. Tom Brady was only part of the equation, he was supported by good offensive lines, great defense and special teams. It's a team game.

In retrospect and I'm being honest. We should have used the 8 million given to Brissett on a real LT, kept Zapp,and how we are looking now should have just kept Bill it wouldn't had been a different anyway.

 

[Ring 6]

Name the players the Pats should have signed that are doing great in the league right now.

Other teams that signed the top players were in different situations. I don't think there was any one team that spent a lot of on free agency this year. The Titans beat the Pats out for Calvin Ridley (the top WR in free agency) and Titans have the same record as the Patriots and Ridley has 141 yards and 1 TD in four games so far.

I do know the Eagles were praised for spending in free agency and stealing their chief rival's star player. They have one more win than the Pats right now and look like crap.

This again. I’ve listed over 70 players that cold have helped this team.

If you want to think Wolf built a great team, be my guest.

There were 530 free agent signings. Feel free to pick the ones you think are best, but if you think the ones we signed were, you are crazy.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/year/2024/sort/contract_value

 

[Real fan 02]

In 2000 the Patriots were 5-11 with the greatest HC of all time. Heck he was 5-11, 6-10 in Cleveland. I don’t understand the panic. R-E-L-A-X.

Your right Zuma my guy.. however there was a BIG difference.. we discovered the 199th pick in that draft....