Greg Bedard skewers AVP

[Hugepatsfan]

Avp definitely is a concern so far. I watched an all 22 where this guy broke down all of maye’s snaps against nyj. He wasn’t a pats fan or hater. The guy ripped avp and his offense to shreds. All his critiques made perfect sense (play design, play call, etc).

Another concern is teams seem to know every time we want to run a screen or pap. Only can remember one long one screen to henry and one to hooper working well. The rest have been blown up. Not sure if thats on him for predictability? We need to be a good screen team given how limited we are. They were good in preseason but that hasnt carried over.

The only plus thus far has been maye’s overall development. If you see how he was from the first couple padded practices to the last preseason game, they seem to at least be doing a decent job there, i hope! He was there for mayfields best season in cle and last year did a decent job with Flacco as his qb, but hard to tell how much stefanski factored in since hes an offensive mind. But i think he needs to be on a short leash by seasons end.

Do teams know we're going to run a screen/PAP? Or is the field just so condensed for us because we have a QB who can't throw downfield and receivers who can't get open there even if he could so defenses are able to pack it in and then the OL is so bad that even if you do catch the defense off guard they have little ground to cover and can hurry us up with the rush?

AVP clearly wasn't a highly sought after candidate and fair to question him, but not sure what he's supposed to do scheme wise when they have below acceptable talent right now at QB, receiving options and OL. Other than the TEs who aren't anything special and David Andrews who isn't elite or anything, not sure they have any starting caliber player on the whole offense with Onwenu seemingly exposed as a RG vs. RT and Stevenson's fumbling woes. It's just a total mess. It's tough to scheme anything good up when there's really not a single unit/player you can really base it off of.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Do teams know we're going to run a screen/PAP? Or is the field just so condensed for us because we have a QB who can't throw downfield and receivers who can't get open there even if he could so defenses are able to pack it in and then the OL is so bad that even if you do catch the defense off guard they have little ground to cover and can hurry us up with the rush?

AVP clearly wasn't a highly sought after candidate and fair to question him, but not sure what he's supposed to do scheme wise when they have below acceptable talent right now at QB, receiving options and OL. Other than the TEs who aren't anything special and David Andrews who isn't elite or anything, not sure they have any starting caliber player on the whole offense with Onwenu seemingly exposed as a RG vs. RT and Stevenson's fumbling woes. It's just a total mess. It's tough to scheme anything good up when there's really not a single unit/player you can really base it off of.

Its a good point, i do think better qb play could help in so many areas even with a troubled OL and make the defenses honest. But I truly have no idea what the primary issue is with the screens. In 2001 we were a dink and dunk offense with journeyman david patten as the lone deep threat but we were a pretty good screen team that year.

But i might have to agree that as is the case with so much else with this offense, you just wont have any real answers until we get a legitimate qb in there

 

[PatsFan2]

AVP I know you Read this Board Moron Why do you consistently leave your Terrible UDFA LT's on a Island?? They should; be helped on every play they're abysmal at Pass Blocking by themselves. Ray Charles can see that why is AVP so stubborn with his scheme?? The Patriots Defense is not exactly the Standard which shows on Game Days.

 

[State]

Where’s the motion?​

 

[mgcolby]

Didn't hear what he said nor have I read a single post in this thread. But the **** is obvious. With an Oline in shambles and even in the first two weeks when the oline play was servicable clearly you could run the ball (And admittedly I have no idea what the percentages are) but near zero use of PA in the first two weeks, limited in weeks 3 and 4. is inexcusable. Hardly any screens, no creative misdirection's, motions etc...Its line up and hope someone gets open in 0.5 second and Brisset finds him or run into a 9-10 man box....rinse repeat and hope for different results. Its insanity!

Not a fan of Van Pelt. Get ****ing creative! Or get the **** out!

 

[obgod3]

Any ball thrown behind the LOS these days seemed doomed, saw it in most games this last weekend, it sometimes works but aI think overall not so much. Defenses have gotten faster, smarter and most QB’s can’t get the ball there fast enough to create space. Watched games with folks this weekend and it was something we noticed in about every game we watched, just not a very successful play.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Honestly, I never really had much hope that AVP was going to be the answer at OC. I don't mean any disrespect to the guy, but he doesn't really have the profile of someone who's a top tier offensive coordinator. He's got a long track record of coaching and seems like a good guy who knows what he's doing but more of a QB coach than a coordinator. We tried for guys with more of an offensive coordinator profile and none wanted to come here, so we settled on this retread. Again, I don't mean that he isn't a quality coach or good guy to have on staff, but this role just seems more than he's made for.

My hope with him was always a lot like Brissett. They're sacrificial lambs. Maye needs some time to sit (both on his accord and due to the team around him). That's why Brissett is here and playing. And until Maye shows some stuff and the talent around him looks better, this isn't a desirable OC job. That's why AVP is here.

So I'm not looking to nitpick AVP's every move because I simply don't view him as a long term OC here. I'm looking for him to be a 2 year stop gap where he puts enough of a respectable system in place so that we can be seen as more desirable destination for better/more innovative offensive coaches n a couple of years, provided that the talent base looks better.

Right now the talent is horrendous so it's tough to gauge the scheme impact IMO. But it doesn't feel like we have some dysfunctional mess out there. It seems like there's some semblance of a system in place to where we can evaluate players. Unfortunately those evaluations are bad right now pretty much across the board.

 

[farn]

While I’m not absolving the coaching, Michelangelo used marble to sculpt his masterpieces. Asking AVP to achieve the David using manure is a stretch… even the most genius OC would struggle with this group on O.

 

[captain stone]

Remember the catch by Polk that was ruled incomplete?
Remember what the distance on 2nd down of that series was, and the offensive formation shown?

2nd/2.

Empty Shotgun.

With only two yards to go. TWO…****ing…Yards. EMPTY.

THAT’S on the ****ing coaching. ****ing Idiot.

Oh and guess what the result of the play was…?

 

[Stu Pidassle]

AVP I know you Read this Board Moron Why do you consistently leave your Terrible UDFA LT's on a Island?? They should; be helped on every play they're abysmal at Pass Blocking by themselves. Ray Charles can see that why is AVP so stubborn with his scheme?? The Patriots Defense is not exactly the Standard which shows on Game Days.

Clearly there are fundamental issues across the OL and coaching is part of the problem. Are the situations where the LT is left without help due to the play call or missed adjustments a the LOS? I ask because I am concerned that communication is about to get worse on the OL with Andrews going to the IR.

 

[203Pat]

Where’s the motion?​

According to Beddard we run the least amount of motion in the entire league.

 

[State]

According to Beddard we run the least amount of motion in the entire league.

Eight percent of the time. Crazy.

 

[Ring 6]

Remember the catch by Polk that was ruled incomplete?
Remember what the distance on 2nd down of that series was, and the offensive formation shown?

2nd/2.

Empty Shotgun.

With only two yards to go. TWO…****ing…Yards. EMPTY.

THAT’S on the ****ing coaching. ****ing Idiot.

Oh and guess what the result of the play was…?

I don’t have an issue with being aggressive on 2nd and 2, this offense is not good enough to grind out first downs up and down the field in 3 yards and a cloud of dust mode. It was late in the game too, I think, where we needed points fast to have a hope.
They need chunk plays on first and second down
But trying to get chunk plays on 2nd and 2 doesn’t work best from shotgun empty backfield.
And the choice to throw to Polk was actually terrible despite the fact that he almost made the catch. The defender was in better position.

Why not run play action, off motion to determine man or zone, take a shot to the seam if it’s zone or deep if it’s man to get that chunk play?

Running on 2nd and 2 is not what this offense needs to do. “staying on schedule” is the plan that this stooge has implemented that has led to 4 TDs in 4 games.

 

[Ring 6]

While I’m not absolving the coaching, Michelangelo used marble to sculpt his masterpieces. Asking AVP to achieve the David using manure is a stretch… even the most genius OC would struggle with this group on O.

We went out in Free Agency and chose a QB. We drafted another in round 3.
We drafted a WR in the 2nd, another in the 4th and signed 2 in Free agency.
We signed 2 TEs in free agency and drafted another. .
We drafted an OT and signed another in Free Agency.
We signed a G in FA and are playing him at RT
We drafted a G and signed another in Free Agency.
We extended our RB contact and signed another in free agency.

That’s 16 players the front office acquired this year on offense and a 17th they extended
They acquired expected starters at every position except C.

These are the players they wanted.

 

[203Pat]

Eight percent of the time. Crazy.

Zero innovation and really no attempts to work around the offensive line issues. Where are the screens, misdirections, jet sweeps (with the right personnel)? Beddard crushed the route concepts he runs basically saying there is no high low middle and it all just looks arbitrary. He also highlighted the toss play to Stevenson that lost 7 yards because they had Thornton in the slot trying to block a 260 lb linebacker. Not only is Van Pelt not getting creative to adjust for the issues he isn't setting up the current personnel to succeed. Everything I heard about Cleveland's reasoning for firing him is that he wants the guys on the field to play his scheme whether it fits the personnel or not and it looks like he hasn't leaned his lesson.

 

[captain stone]

I don’t have an issue with being aggressive on 2nd and 2, this offense is not good enough to grind out first downs up and down the field in 3 yards and a cloud of dust mode. It was late in the game too, I think, where we needed points fast to have a hope.
They need chunk plays on first and second down
But trying to get chunk plays on 2nd and 2 doesn’t work best from shotgun empty backfield.
And the choice to throw to Polk was actually terrible despite the fact that he almost made the catch. The defender was in better position.

Why not run play action, off motion to determine man or zone, take a shot to the seam if it’s zone or deep if it’s man to get that chunk play?

Running on 2nd and 2 is not what this offense needs to do. “staying on schedule” is the plan that this stooge has implemented that has led to 4 TDs in 4 games.

Yep my point exactly: showing empty shotgun on 2nd/2 was bad, Bad play-calling. Just like you suggested, running motion-based play-action stood a much Much better chance of catching the 49ers defense off-guard.

The result of that 2nd/2 empty shotgun, by the way? A Loss of 3 yards.

 

[Ring 6]

Yep my point exactly: showing empty shotgun on 2nd/2 was bad, Bad play-calling. Just like you suggested, running motion-based play-action stood a much Much better chance of catching the 49ers defense off-guard.

The result of that 2nd/2 empty shotgun, by the way? A Loss of 3 yards.

I thought you were saying the throw to Polk was on 2nd and 2

 

[PatsFan2]

According to Beddard we run the least amount of motion in the entire league.

And we have Pop Douglas who would be any CB to a spot going in motion.

 

[captain stone]

I thought you were saying the throw to Polk was on 2nd and 2

It wasn’t; I brought up that play to demonstrate how stupid play-calling can ruin a drive, especially those that end in a way that has people forgetting what got them there in the first place.

 

[farn]

We went out in Free Agency and chose a QB. We drafted another in round 3.
We drafted a WR in the 2nd, another in the 4th and signed 2 in Free agency.
We signed 2 TEs in free agency and drafted another. .
We drafted an OT and signed another in Free Agency.
We signed a G in FA and are playing him at RT
We drafted a G and signed another in Free Agency.
We extended our RB contact and signed another in free agency.

That’s 16 players the front office acquired this year on offense and a 17th they extended
They acquired expected starters at every position except C.

These are the players they wanted.

« they » or the GM ? I don’t know the level of involvement of AVP in the acquisition of players. I’m not saying he had no input, but rather I don’t know how much say he had…