Robinson and Wallace

[VrabelJr]

We will still be in QB draftpick territory with a QB, and teams will want to move up. JJ shot up the moon for the draft too and we already know the Giants tried to move up this year. If we draft ahead of the Giants, they will have to talk to us to ensure they get a QB

If we are #1 or #2 overall bad, that pick definitely will get traded for a boat load

It’s kind of tricky unless there are multiple suitors because everyone knows we won’t take a QB so it’s a game of chicken. We were in a stronger position to trade our pick this year.

 

[ZotZot]

It’s kind of tricky unless there are multiple suitors because everyone knows we won’t take a QB so it’s a game of chicken. We were in a stronger position to trade our pick this year.

*IF* we are as bad as we looked Thursday, there will be multiple teams behind us in draft order that would want a QB and if the pickings are slim then that would make it even more important to jump other teams

 

[upstater1]

We will still be in QB draftpick territory with a QB, and teams will want to move up. JJ shot up the moon for the draft too and we already know the Giants tried to move up this year. If we draft ahead of the Giants, they will have to talk to us to ensure they get a QB

If we are #1 or #2 overall bad, that pick definitely will get traded for a boat load

I just disagree with this in the sense that QBs like McCarthy and Nix and Pickett in previous years will be available, but there is no top rated guy like the 3 that went this year. If you look back at trades for the likes of the secondary QBs, the payout was not different than trading up according to the draft chart.

The trade for Justin Fields allowed the Giants to jump 10 spots in the 1st round, and they gave up a 1st for the following year to jump that high. The draft trade value was exactly the same as in the trade chart. No premium for trading up for a QB like Justin Fields.

Also last year. The trade-up for McCarthy was done for a 4th and 5th rounder, with a 6th going back to Minnesota. A 4th rounder essentially. But it's known that Denver was also trying to trade into that slot in order to take McCarthy, but apparently they couldn't beat a deal that gave up just a 4th rounder.

This tells me there's not that much premium on guys who might as well be rated as 2nd round values as QBs.

Don't get me wrong... if someone wants to give up a bundle for Ewers, Sanders or Beck, then by all means make the trade. But these guys are no better than Nix and Penix. And that's being generous. Heck, you could take Allar in the 2nd round and chances are he'll be better than any of the 1st rounders.

 

[ZotZot]

I just disagree with this in the sense that QBs like McCarthy and Nix and Pickett in previous years will be available, but there is no top rated guy like the 3 that went this year. If you look back at trades for the likes of the secondary QBs, the payout was not different than trading up according to the draft chart.

The trade for Justin Fields allowed the Giants to jump 10 spots in the 1st round, and they gave up a 1st for the following year to jump that high. The draft trade value was exactly the same as in the trade chart. No premium for trading up for a QB like Justin Fields.

Also last year. The trade-up for McCarthy was done for a 4th and 5th rounder, with a 6th going back to Minnesota. A 4th rounder essentially. But it's known that Denver was also trying to trade into that slot in order to take McCarthy, but apparently they couldn't beat a deal that gave up just a 4th rounder.

This tells me there's not that much premium on guys who might as well be rated as 2nd round values as QBs.

Don't get me wrong... if someone wants to give up a bundle for Ewers, Sanders or Beck, then by all means make the trade. But these guys are no better than Nix and Penix. And that's being generous. Heck, you could take Allar in the 2nd round and chances are he'll be better than any of the 1st rounders.

I am no scout so if you don't believe in the talent in this upcoming draft I wont disagree if you think these dudes will be jags/spares. All the Pats need will be for there to be 2 QBs that teams love and we probably will be in a position to draft one of them, but you are right in that not every year teams fall in love with the QBs

 

[captain stone]

What about 6'9 giant Caleb Jones? At LT.. we probably won't have Sow for a while. At this point they should have kept Mafi..

Jones is a RT-Only;
I’ll be disappointed - and a little upset - if Sow isn’t at least participating in practice this week;
Fat Tony Mafia sucks.

 

[Real fan 02]

Jones is a RT-Only;
I’ll be disappointed - and a little upset - if Sow isn’t at least participating in practice this week;
Fat Tony Mafia sucks.

Those high ankle sprains sometimes can keep guys sidelined for a while.. we are talking about O-lineman who have to rely on thier techniques, thier foot placement and blocking assignments.

 

[Real fan 02]

Some of it is lack of communication and just inexperienced players next to him but he has been flat out beaten more times than you would want for a guy we paid.

We took a wrestling athlete in Neal and he played at an all pro level as an o lineman. Onwenu is still our best O line player. He's had to take up for the piss poor play at tackle so naturally it will affect his game. I can't see David Andrews coming back next season I think he retires.

 

[Sciz]

Something that has been bothering me since the Belichick days is this dancing chairs in the OL, they draft players from a position trying to fill others, it's nice to have some flexibility but the guy played a position in college (and probably before that) for a reason, are they trying to be the smartest people in the room assuming college coaches don't know sh.it?

Then they give Owmenu a payday and have to put him at tackle to justify that? Weakening the whole right side that was less a concern compared to left. Guards get paid too in these days, if he was worth the new contract pay him to play RG and solidify that position, and then, WTF you draft a RG only player in the draft right after that?

How about this advice, draft a RG to play RG. If you already have one, this is a waste of a draft pick. Draft a RT to play RT, if somehow 2 or 3 years down the road he develops some skills to play at left, then that's a nice to have but don't count on that, draft LTs to play on the left.

RT to LT is uncommon and RG to RT is rare, but in general you’re severely limiting your available options if you’re not willing to consider moving an offensive lineman to a different position. More than half of players do.

 

[captain stone]

Those high ankle sprains sometimes can keep guys sidelined for a while.. we are talking about O-lineman who have to rely on thier techniques, thier foot placement and blocking assignments.

I’m not upset at the Sow; I will be, however, at the team if they could’ve placed him on IR and added somebody else to the 53 for the same - or longer - length of time.

 

[VrabelJr]

RT to LT is uncommon and RG to RT is rare, but in general you’re severely limiting your available options if you’re not willing to consider moving an offensive lineman to a different position. More than half of players do.

This is awesome. Thanks for sharing

 

[dliverey44]

I am pretty confident that Campbell or Banks or other appropriate LT will be drafted with our 1st pick. In that spirit I hope they try and solidify the remaining 4 spots. Let Lowe or Jacobs fight it out for LT, Sow and Robinson compete for LG, Andrews, Owenu, Wallace. If Wallace is hurt more than it sounds, let Jacobs, Thomas, and Jones fight for RT.

Draft LT or throw money at Dan Moore Jr

 

[n1997y]

It’s kind of tricky unless there are multiple suitors because everyone knows we won’t take a QB so it’s a game of chicken. We were in a stronger position to trade our pick this year.

*IF* we are as bad as we looked Thursday, there will be multiple teams behind us in draft order that would want a QB and if the pickings are slim then that would make it even more important to jump other teams

That’s the important thing. Any team needing a QB that wants to ensure some other team doesn’t draft their chosen prospect will want to draft before other QB needy teams. Even if they are the team drafting immediately following the Pats they have to worry that some team drafting later might trade with the Pats to jump up the draft order. Main reason we were in a stronger position to trade our pick this year was being a team competing for the scarce QB candidates, so not really comparable.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That’s the important thing. Any team needing a QB that wants to ensure some other team doesn’t draft their chosen prospect will want to draft before other QB needy teams. Even if they are the team drafting immediately following the Pats they have to worry that some team drafting later might trade with the Pats to jump up the draft order. Main reason we were in a stronger position to trade our pick this year was being a team competing for the scarce QB candidates, so not really comparable.

Yeah, the "stronger position" came with a much bigger risk. Trading down would mean going from what they must have viewed as something like 95% chance of Maye/5% chance of Daniels* to [????], with no guarantees of getting a QB they wanted in 2024 or in 2025.

*By all accounts they were pretty confident that WAS was going to go for Daniels.

 

[Ring 6]

RT to LT is uncommon and RG to RT is rare, but in general you’re severely limiting your available options if you’re not willing to consider moving an offensive lineman to a different position. More than half of players do.

Really the way the league has evolved there isn’t really a difference between RT and LT.
It’s not the 80s and 90s where the best pass rushers were always on the blind side, the TE was always on the R and the RT needed to be a run blocker who passed blocked bigger bull rushers.

The whole blind side thing is pretty much gone with shot gun being so prevalent and the fact that you can’t hit QBs.
If your crappy pass blocking T is on the right side, the best pass rushers will end up there.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

With how bad the OL has been, I would not be particularly upset if they used a whole draft finding starters and backups. (I'm not completely serious, but... I wouldn't consider it a bad move). I'm not convinced that if we released our whole OL that any of them would even be a backup for any other team.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I'm not sure I get the whole argument for letting Wallace start at LT/RT even if he haven't looked good in the games because he has to learn. I have to assume the coaches are putting him there in practice and seeing that it's not working otherwise he'd be playing.

 

[ZotZot]

I'm not sure I get the whole argument for letting Wallace start at LT/RT even if he haven't looked good in the games because he has to learn. I have to assume the coaches are putting him there in practice and seeing that it's not working otherwise he'd be playing.

Its the belief that the only way for a player to get better is through playing no matter how bad it gets. Plus for the upcoming draft/FA, do you need 2 starting tackles or do you just need 1

 

[mike_usagisan]

Its the belief that the only way for a player to get better is through playing no matter how bad it gets. Plus for the upcoming draft/FA, do you need 2 starting tackles or do you just need 1

That's an interesting theory. It sort of negates the idea of practice and competition and winning your position and actually being capable of playing the position. But it is a theory!

 

[ZotZot]

That's an interesting theory. It sort of negates the idea of practice and competition and winning your position and actually being capable of playing the position. But it is a theory!

If people were not giving up on the season then there would not be a big call for Wallace or Maye to play. The only hope for a good season in the minds of a lot of people is to see good play from Maye, Polk, Wallace, etc.

 

[PatsFan2]

Wallace is still @ LT in Practice Mayo trying to put a square peg in a round hole. This is going beyond BB stubborn territory Wallace is a RT ONLY Mayo.