Draft trade rumor

[Ring 6]

You said you started the thread to discuss this.

That the report is not true is the only thing worth discussing.

The discussion is of the rumors true what is your opinion on the trade. That was pretty clear. You seem threatened by it.

 

[Ring 6]

Honestly, it's an impossible question for me to fully answer because I don't know how to scout QBs.

What I CAN say definitively is that if they didn't take Maye they were going to need to eventually address the QB position. I think we can all accept that as fact.

This isn't fact, but I am of the opinion that a better path forward for this organization would be to build with a young QB through the draft as opposed to stacking the rest of the roster to the point a proven QB worth going for would want to sign or be traded here. I think we're starting almost at ground zero with the talent on this team and it'd take at least 2 years of good to great drafts and FA hauls to where we're even approaching that territory.

I'm also of the belief that you don't skimp out on the QB. You don't take the lesser prospect because you can get him later. The bust rate is too high at that position to take less than you're favorite attainable prospect. So I would not have been in favor of the idea of trading back to take a QB prospect they think lesser of in this draft (like McCarthy) just to get extra picks. Because ultimately, those extra picks don't matter if you miss on the QB or only semi-hit to the point he's not good enough to win with. Your franchise will be stuck in the mud in that case.

So with the backdrop of those two points, if we didn't take Maye I think we'd have to be budgeting future draft capital for a QB. It wouldn't have made sense to invest high picks in a QB they liked less this year. And planning to take a QB in the future is uncertain, especially with a supposedly weak class next year. Even if you like a guy, you never know if you'll be in position to draft one. You could take the picks this year and end up giving them back to move up next year for a different QB that might not be as good (or could be better, to be fair).

A trade offer like this is a win if you end up getting a great QB later and keeping the picks. But I really just think it's too hard to predict that. I think you have to just evaluate the QB on the board for you and go with your scouting report. If they took Maye just because they felt they needed a QB this year and were going to take the top guy at #3 no matter what, then it's a terrible organizational decision. Even if they hit on Maye, that being their logic indicates they'll most likely fail at building around him because it implies terrible incompetence. But if their scouting report genuinely indicates that he was worth hitching their franchise wagon to, then I think they made the right call.

If your offensive line is so bad you won’t out the QB you drafted on the field, it would seem a reasonable argument that they should have turned the #3 into 2-3 OL.
It would also seem they do not view Maye as a generational can’t miss QB since they never even let him work with the first team and chose Brissett to be the QB THIS YEAR and felt the most important point yo make was that they don’t want brissett to worry that Maye could catch up to him.

 

[Steve102]

Seems like a lot to pass on. I'm calling

 

[Family]

The discussion is of the rumors true what is your opinion on the trade. That was pretty clear. You seem threatened by it.

No, you seem threatened by facts mentioned that point to this rumor likely not being true, which BTW many posters in your thread agree.

Like you can't confirm some point.

Which I find funny because by your thinking, if the rumor is true and some Kraft is pulling the lever, they would have had to accept it, because this trade would save money.

 

[Ring 6]

No, you seem threatened by facts mentioned that point to this rumor likely not being true, which BTW many posters in your thread agree.

Like you can't confirm some point.

Which I find funny because by your thinking, if the rumor is true and some Kraft is pulling the lever, they would have had to accept it, because this trade would save money.

How am I “threatened” by a question I asked?

If what was reported was offered, what is your take?

Having someone refuse to answer and go on and on avoiding the question by arguing whether it was true isn’t threatening to me in any way. Itgersd answered.
For some reason you are afraid to.

I offered no opinion, and simply asked what people thought, so it appears that you are afraid to answer because you don’t like the implication your answer might make, whatever that is.

If you live your life by hiding from a question because you perceive there answer may challenge a belief you have, I would suggest you open your mind.

Nothing in this question had anything to do with your best pal Thunder.

If you wish to debate whether Kraft operates cheaply with respect to other NFL owners, that’s another topic, but I think you may be even more threatened by that one.

 

[Ring 6]

Seems like a lot to pass on. I'm calling

Well the reason to pass would be because you are zeroed on QB or bust and don’t want to be subject to criticism for trading down and having the guy who was in your lap become a star.
Certainly the rhetoric prior to the draft was heavily slanted with “you need a qb and if one is there you cannot pass”
Owners and GMs are not immune to taking the safe route to preserve their reputation

 

[Family]

If what was reported was offered, what is your take?

What's so hard to understand.

Bill Simmons believes there’s ‘legitimate buzz’ around Jeff Bezos buying Celtics

According to The Ringer's Bill Simmons, there is "legitimate buzz" about Amazon founder Jeff Bezos buying the Celtics.

www.boston.com

Simmons is wrong.

Bill Simmons Reveals Prediction On Whether Kevin Durant Will Sign With The Knicks

This is interesting.

clutchpoints.com

Simmons is wrong.

Bill Simmons is saying the Giants offered the patriots this years 1st (6) 2nd and 3rd AND next years 1st 2nd and 3rd for the 3.
5 extra premium picks to move down 3 spots.

Simmons is wrong.

I offered no opinion, and simply asked what people thought, so it appears that you are afraid to answer because you don’t like the implication your answer might make, whatever that is.

If you live your life by hiding from a question because you perceive there answer may challenge a belief you have, I would suggest you open your mind.

I have no beliefs beyond the report is not verifiable, and reads like nonsense.

If you are asking who I thought currently has the last strongest voice in the event of a decision, I'd say probably young Kraft, but he never asserts it, unless it's a big contract.

Nothing in this question had anything to do with your best pal Thunder.

I don't know who Thunder is?

 

[Steve102]

Well the reason to pass would be because you are zeroed on QB or bust and don’t want to be subject to criticism for trading down and having the guy who was in your lap become a star.
Certainly the rhetoric prior to the draft was heavily slanted with “you need a qb and if one is there you cannot pass”
Owners and GMs are not immune to taking the safe route to preserve their reputation

I guess I am willing to give these guys an opportunity to prove that Maye is or isn't the guy before I start thinking they should have done something different. Two years worth or 1st, 2nds and 3rds for Maye seems like a lot unless Maye ends up being more than just serviceable. If he ends up being an all-Pro/pro bowl player for 15 years, then we know they did the right thing. If he ends up being Josh Rosen, then we know that this deal would have been a trade of Hershel Walkerian magnitude. Time will tell. There's certainly a lot of room between a red jacket type of player and Josh Rosen type of player as well.

 

[rochrist]

How am I “threatened” by a question I asked?

If what was reported was offered, what is your take?

Having someone refuse to answer and go on and on avoiding the question by arguing whether it was true isn’t threatening to me in any way. Itgersd answered.
For some reason you are afraid to.

I offered no opinion, and simply asked what people thought, so it appears that you are afraid to answer because you don’t like the implication your answer might make, whatever that is.

If you live your life by hiding from a question because you perceive there answer may challenge a belief you have, I would suggest you open your mind.

Nothing in this question had anything to do with your best pal Thunder.

If you wish to debate whether Kraft operates cheaply with respect to other NFL owners, that’s another topic, but I think you may be even more threatened by that one.

Master class in trolling.

 

[Ring 6]

What's so hard to understand.

Bill Simmons believes there’s ‘legitimate buzz’ around Jeff Bezos buying Celtics

According to The Ringer's Bill Simmons, there is "legitimate buzz" about Amazon founder Jeff Bezos buying the Celtics.

www.boston.com

Simmons is wrong.

Bill Simmons Reveals Prediction On Whether Kevin Durant Will Sign With The Knicks

This is interesting.

clutchpoints.com

Simmons is wrong.



Simmons is wrong.




I have no beliefs beyond the report is not verifiable, and reads like nonsense.

If you are asking who I thought currently has the last strongest voice in the event of a decision, I'd say probably young Kraft, but he never asserts it, unless it's a big contract.




I don't know who Thunder is?

Wouldn’t it just be easier to say “if that trade was offered I would take it” or “if that trade was offered I wouldn’t”. That was the question that you posted half a dozen times without answering.
Maybe next you can tell me whether you prefer apples or oranges.

 

[Ring 6]

Master class in trolling.

Not at all.

 

[Ring 6]

I guess I am willing to give these guys an opportunity to prove that Maye is or isn't the guy before I start thinking they should have done something different. Two years worth or 1st, 2nds and 3rds for Maye seems like a lot unless Maye ends up being more than just serviceable. If he ends up being an all-Pro/pro bowl player for 15 years, then we know they did the right thing. If he ends up being Josh Rosen, then we know that this deal would have been a trade of Hershel Walkerian magnitude. Time will tell. There's certainly a lot of room between a red jacket type of player and Josh Rosen type of player as well.

Sure, but the decision doesn’t get made in hindsight. They are all wasting hindsight.

I’m not sure my answer because if I fit it into the knowledge of what they did with this off-season, I make the trade, because we have too many holes and appear to be ready for a qb.
But if I also had rhe ability to handle the off season differently I would have taken Maye, built around him and handed him the keys.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

If your offensive line is so bad you won’t out the QB you drafted on the field, it would seem a reasonable argument that they should have turned the #3 into 2-3 OL.
It would also seem they do not view Maye as a generational can’t miss QB since they never even let him work with the first team and chose Brissett to be the QB THIS YEAR and felt the most important point yo make was that they don’t want brissett to worry that Maye could catch up to him.

There's definitely some valid concerns here. There's an overarching contradiction in their moves where they seem to simultaneously think that:

1) Maye is so incredibly raw that he's not ready to play yet
2) he was such a great QB prospect that even with a barren roster they felt they couldn't pass on him

Even if they're right that he's both raw/in need of development but also a future face of the franchise type guy, they didn't make any moves to aid his development this year and the coaching staff doesn't seem like the most encouraging group to develop a QB (defensive head coach, offensive staff that seem more recycled low to mid tier minds). So even if they're right in their evaluation of him that he could be amazing but needs time, they're building the type of environment that's going to make it hard for him to realize that potential in.

 

[sb1]

If this rumor is true (it's not, but for argument's sake) then my answer would depend on how I felt about Maye.

If I believed that he is our franchise QB to be and willing to put my job on the line for it - then no I would not trade down. It's that simple.

 

[Grogan14]

If this rumor is true (it's not, but for argument's sake) then my answer would depend on how I felt about Maye.

If I believed that he is our franchise QB to be and willing to put my job on the line for it - then no I would not trade down. It's that simple.

and do you?
I do not and would not

 

[Ring 6]

If this rumor is true (it's not, but for argument's sake) then my answer would depend on how I felt about Maye.

If I believed that he is our franchise QB to be and willing to put my job on the line for it - then no I would not trade down. It's that simple.

Very reasonable answer

 

[Steve102]

Sure, but the decision doesn’t get made in hindsight. They are all wasting hindsight.

I’m not sure my answer because if I fit it into the knowledge of what they did with this off-season, I make the trade, because we have too many holes and appear to be ready for a qb.
But if I also had rhe ability to handle the off season differently I would have taken Maye, built around him and handed him the keys.

I don't think it's a case of having your cake and eating it too; Maye and then fill all the holes. I think it's Maye, fill the most holes you can, and deal with the rest as it comes. I think if you trade out for 6 from the Giants, 34, 47 from Giants, 68 and 70 from the Giants PLUS two 1s two 2s and two 3s in 2025, you fill a lot of holes, but you can't fill every hole year 1. You could have taken best OT available or best QB available at 6, but you're still out of the running for a top OT/QB in round two, because of the run at those positions. For instance: OT Latham at 6 and Brissett at QB, you're still not very good in 2024, with a weak QB class (allegedly) in 2025. So... if you believe that Maye is a possible bonafide player with a capital P at #3 this year, you have to take him, knowing that a player of his skill set won't be there in 2025.

I agree that picks 6, 34, 47, 68, 70 this year plus the top 3 next year is a truckload, but it doesn't fill both the QB and OT positions, based on how the draft shook out this year. Even if they took JJ McCarthy at 6, they still have the OT hole to deal with. By the time they are on the clock at 34, the top OTs are gone.

It all comes down to whether or not they believe Maye is The Guy. Clearly they do, and if the Giants did indeed offer this many picks, then the Giants also believed it.

 

[Family]

Wouldn’t it just be easier to say “if that trade was offered I would take it” or “if that trade was offered I wouldn’t”. That was the question that you posted half a dozen times without answering.

My first words in this thread on page one was, "It's ridiculous that the Giants offered this much, and also ridiculous to have rejected it."

Isn't that the response you are saying you wanted?

To which you responded, "Bill Simmons reported it."

So no, it wasn't easy.

Maybe next you can tell me whether you prefer apples or oranges.

I don't prefer either if they are not real.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It all comes down to whether or not they believe Maye is The Guy. Clearly they do, and if the Giants did indeed offer this many picks, then the Giants also believed it.

As I've said before, it comes down to certainty vs. uncertainty.

They had what they saw as the certainty of drafting Maye this year (based on their understanding of what WAS wanted to do). Trading down meant uncertainty.

 

[Zuma]