Jaguar Mac Jones is about to embarrass the genius BB and his all star coaching staff [mod edit: he didn’t]

[PatsFan2]

The fans don’t fire anyone genius. Modell initially said he was bringing BB with him to Baltimore then changed his mind after the fact. It’s a lie.

Or a Collaboration.

 

[sb1]

The fans don’t fire anyone genius. Modell initially said he was bringing BB with him to Baltimore then changed his mind after the fact. It’s a lie.

And why do you think an owner would change his mind like he did? I'm sure he didn't wake up one day and decide to do something different just because.

 

[Wozzy]

And why do you think an owner would change his mind like he did? I'm sure he didn't wake up one day and decide to do something different just because.

Cope.

The Cleveland Browns did not fire Bill Belichick

The Cleveland Browns have made more than their share of mistakes during the past two decades, but firing Bill Belichick is not one you can pin on them.

dawgpounddaily.com

 

[signbabybrady]

TB12 got one without BB, so it's presumptuous to say we'd have zero. Maybe with another coach and GM, we'd have gotten 3 more during the long drought. It's impossible to know. Still, BB has zero rings as HC without TB12. TB12 was terrific without him. BB? A losing record.

I never said Brady would have zero. I said we would have zero. Brady never plays for the Patriots without BB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

TB12 got one without BB, so it's presumptuous to say we'd have zero. Maybe with another coach and GM, we'd have gotten 3 more during the long drought. It's impossible to know. Still, BB has zero rings as HC without TB12. TB12 was terrific without him. BB? A losing record.

Garbage argument.

Tom had the flexibility of going to a team which was already flush with talent. Gronk tagging along certainly helped, drafting two All Pros and key resignings helped. Bill needed to rebuild.

If Bill goes to KC does he win a Super Bowl? Do the 49ers (seeing how their coach poops his pants in big games) win with Bill?

 

[sb1]

Cope.

The Cleveland Browns did not fire Bill Belichick

The Cleveland Browns have made more than their share of mistakes during the past two decades, but firing Bill Belichick is not one you can pin on them.

dawgpounddaily.com

Non-answer. Modell wasn't stupid he knows what the fans and media were saying about BB. So do most owners when it comes to their team. Some are fans themselves like Kraft. In the likely event the backlash changed his mind how is that different than running him out of town. In this case, Baltimore.

It really doesn't matter, as I've always said Cleveland Bill was not ready for prime time as a coach in the NFL. In my view his post-Brady years hurts his legacy as much of that was his own doing but not his Browns years.

 

[signbabybrady]

Not as a HC.

I still see the 2 with the Giants as validation that he knows what he's doing and wasn't just along for the ride.

Maybe someone can win one as a coordinator and be proven to be over his head as a HC. But winning 2 followed by another 6 and being a runner up 3 times is not just a one man show.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Non-answer. Modell wasn't stupid he knows what the fans and media were saying about BB. So do most owners when it comes to their team. Some are fans themselves like Kraft. In the likely event the backlash changed his mind how is that different than running him out of town. In this case, Baltimore.

It really doesn't matter, as I've always said Cleveland Bill was not ready for prime time as a coach in the NFL. In my view his post-Brady years hurts his legacy as much of that was his own doing but not his Browns years.

The issue is CLE went 11-5 in 1994 and went into 1995 as a Super Bowl contender......then the roof caved in once the locker room learned of the intent to move.

You want to say BB wasn't ready that may be true but they were absolutely on the right path.

 

[Wozzy]

The fans in the final year were pissed at Modell for moving the team. Period.

We don’t know what went on behind the scenes, did BB blanche at the idea of moving to Baltimore after Modell publicly stated he was bringing Bill there as the coach. Either way, “the fans fired BB” was just a silly thing to say. The fans of Baltimore had no feelings at all.

 

[Wozzy]

The issue is CLE went 11-5 in 1994 and went into 1995 as a Super Bowl contender......then the roof caved in once the locker room learned of the intent to move.

You want to say BB wasn't ready that may be true but they were absolutely on the right path.

#1 defense in the NFL. They won despite having no QB and Modell and fans insisting Kosar wasn’t washed up.

 

[sb1]

The issue is CLE went 11-5 in 1994 and went into 1995 as a Super Bowl contender......then the roof caved in once the locker room learned of the intent to move.

You want to say BB wasn't ready that may be true but they were absolutely on the right path.

Bill didn't understand at the time that building good relationships with players, management, his peers and the media matter in this league, that's why he wasn't ready. He can't come in guns blazing doing what he wants without those relationships. I mentioned his diss of Marv Levy here before (and Levy's wife still hates BB to this day because of that)...he would have never said something like that as Patriots HC.

He was a much better coach later on because he learned his lesson.

 

[Thelonious]

The flip side is also true. The notion that BB was a lousy coach is ridiculous. De be blow it with Mac? Maybe, but he was crucial to the success that Patriots had for twenty years. And he made a great, and I mean great call on Brady at a time when it was in fact, really risky. I watched it all in real time. But did he get old? For sure. We all do. It doesn't diminish his legacy, but it also doesn't mean he didn't screw up with Mac, at least in part. We'll see how it plays out in the next few years.

Why in the world do we struggle here to embrace the obvious? For a long time, Bill was a great coach; then he wasn't. For a long time he was an adequate GM; then he was abysmal. It is no more contradictory to note these divergent facts than it is to observe that on Monday it rained, whereas on Tuesday it was sunny.

This discussion is weirdly theological. Thou Shall Not Take the Name of Bill in Vain.

Silly.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill didn't understand at the time that building good relationships with players, management, his peers and the media matter in this league, that's why he wasn't ready. He can't come in guns blazing doing what he wants without those relationships. I mentioned his diss of Marv Levy here before (and Levy's wife still hates BB to this day because of that)...he would have never said something like that as Patriots HC.

He was a much better coach later on because he learned his lesson.

Agree. Bill even admitted that. My point remains.....he built a good team and organization until the owner cut his legs out from under him

 

[p8ryts]

Why in the world do we struggle here to embrace the obvious? For a long time, Bill was a great coach; then he wasn't. For a long time he was an adequate GM; then he was abysmal. It is no more contradictory to note these divergent facts than it is to observe that on Monday it rained, whereas on Tuesday it was sunny.

This discussion is weirdly theological. Thou Shall Not Take the Name of Bill in Vain.

Silly.

AMEN!

 

[Wozzy]

Agree. Bill even admitted that. My point remains.....he built a good team and organization until the owner cut his legs out from under him

Since Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome gave BB credit for their success and said the Ogden, Ray Lewis picks were a direct result of Browns scouting yeah… right direction is correct.

 

[Wozzy]

Mac sucks.

Think otherwise, stand by that analysis, we’ll make a list of truthers and laugh at it for years to come.

 

[h0c2000]

Not as a HC.

Clearly winning 2 Super Bowls in 9 season as a defensive coordinator is good. Not as good as Fat Matt's 2 in 6 seasons as a coordinator but still pretty good. I guess that make Matt a better defensive mind.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Thoughts on the comments in this thread:

Why won't the debate of Tom vs Bill ever die? If it weren't for Kraft correcting his horrible mistake of driving Parcells out of town, Tom is nowhere near NE. He's probably undrafted and signs with a California team. Had Bill not been hired, he doesn't hire Rehbein who liked Brady. If it wasn't for Bobby Grier's connection with Lloyd Carr, Bill doesn't gather all the info he needs to pull trigger on Brady. This story is no different than Andy Reid who many posters here don't know what it actually took for Mahomes to end up in KC.

Would Tom win Super Bowls in NE without Bill? That you can't say for certain because Tom is reliant on how the Front Office/HC puts a team around him. The team was eroding with Grier as the GM by 1999. There are plenty of HOF QB's that didn't win much because they weren't surrounded with enough talent or had the coaching necessary. Posters seem to conveniently forget that Tom went on a 10 year drought of winning a Super Bowl.

Back to Mac Jones. He's not a Franchise QB, but I can see him resurfacing at some point and have a good season statistically like his rookie season when all the stars are aligned. He needs good coaching and good/great a supporting cast everywhere in order to be effective.

 

[farn]

It's also absurd to say that without BB, TB12 gets zero rings as a Patriot. After Tampa Bay, it's reasonable to ponder how well he would done on the Pats with a a good coach not named BB and a good GM.

While you make a good point - please note I never said Brady would be ringless w/o BB - let’s not discount the fact that the 2020 TB squad accumulated lots of talent for that run. So, again, while Brady was the key cog, let’s not pretend he single-handedly dragged trash to the SB.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

I never said Brady would have zero. I said we would have zero. Brady never plays for the Patriots without BB.

That's a better argument, but also not certain.