Project 2027

[Real fan 02]

No, Steve B called the defensive plays. Mayo helped plan the defensive strategy, but Steve called the defense. And AVP did not call the offensive plays in Cleveland either.

Your right. Curran mentioned Monday that mayo and Steve were both jointly responsible for play calling. Mayo ran the meetings and Steve got credited for playing calling duties to justify his salary at 2 million. Yes AVP was the QB coach in Cleveland.

 

[Real fan 02]

Steve called the defenses

Your right. However Curran mentioned Monday on NBC sports Boston that they shared play calling duties...

 

[Real fan 02]

Agreed. But do multi-year rebuilds work? "The Process". Multi-year rebuilds always sound good, but many teams get stuck in "forever rebuilds" after entering into a multi-year rebuild. A top draft pick for a LT would be great, but after that our goal should be the Super Bowl.

The drafting and the mismanagement at the QB position are why were are here. I firmly believe had we had better planning at the QB position we'd be rebuilt by now.

 

[203Pat]

I don't believe I said that. I would be surprised if there is evidence of that. But what I probably said is that I enjoy rooting for the team that I like by being positive and don't understand why people enjoy complaining about the team they profess to care about. I personally enjoy watching the Pats play whether they win or lose, the last few years have been enjoyable for me. I enjoy seeing the team try different things and I don't get offended or feel entitled if the management does something that doesn't work out. I will always root for the Pats whether they are SB favorites or cellar dwellers, and I will always believe that they will win the next game they play. It's just the way I am wired. I can't help it; I enjoy rooting for the team that way.

Sorry I was talking about Andy. I try to be as objective as possible when rooting for the team but at the same time being a fan and being objective isn't always realistic. I also am more critical of the team with other Patriots fans. It is kind of like when you have a friend and you can pick on each other but if someone else picks on your friend you get defensive. I have never liked the gatekeeping of fandom and for a very long time on here we had homers like Andy and Wozzy who would disregard any criticism with "6 rings" and "go root for another team" as if blind homerism makes them the arbiters of Patriots fandom.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yes, jointly responsible for running the Pats defense. Not jointly responsible for calling the Pats defensive plays. Steve was the defensive playcaller. Covington will be the defensive playcaller this year.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The drafting and the mismanagement at the QB position are why were are here. I firmly believe had we had better planning at the QB position we'd be rebuilt by now.

Yes. Agreed. But it is easier to say then to do. The JETS have been trying since Namath. Let's hope Maye is the real deal.

 

[Ring 6]

Your right. However Curran mentioned Monday on NBC sports Boston that they shared play calling duties...

That isn’t consistent with what we’ve been told and seen with our own eyes.

 

[Real fan 02]

That isn’t consistent with what we’ve been told and seen with our own eyes.

Just stating what he said in his comments with Phil perry.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Your right. However Curran mentioned Monday on NBC sports Boston that they shared play calling duties...

I have not seen that. Curran said they were jointly responsible for running the defense, I have never seen Mayo call the plays of the defense.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yes. Agreed. But it is easier to say then to do. The JETS have been trying since Namath. Let's hope Maye is the real deal.

It is. But not impossible. I really don't understand why they were thinking that stidham was the heir to brady. Hoyer was so bad that he even couldn't out duel him. We ended up getting cam. We just need to stabilize the position this season until Drake takes the reigns. None of as as fans will know if Drake is until he's in there as a starter. What keeps getting lost is the organization drafted Drake as a project. He was told he would sit and learn while developing. Unless Jacoby gets injured I don't see Drake playing save for blow outs in mop up time. I'm with you I really like Drake and I hope he's the guy we believe he is.

 

[Real fan 02]

I have not seen that. Curran said they were jointly responsible for running the defense, I have never seen Mayo call the plays of the defense.

It was on NBC sports Boston in his own words Curran said mayo and Steve both jointly called plays he could have just been theorizing but that's what he said. It's not printed anywhere just his comments.

 

[Real fan 02]

That isn’t consistent with what we’ve been told and seen with our own eyes.

No is as consistent like u andy!

 

[Ring 6]

No is as consistent like u andy!

Huh?

 

[Ian]

Name 3 things that are better about the team today than last year without saying the draft picks who haven’t played yet will be great, because there is no way of knowing that.

Man...you're on a tear these days. The offense as a whole is significantly better, save for the offensive line - and that's probably going to have to be the priority draft-wise next April. And you can't throw out the draft picks because they absolutely do matter in this equation, especially given their trouble attracting free agents.

But to answer your question, they're already much improved compared to a year ago:

2023 Week 1 Offensive Skill Players:

JuJu Smith-Schuster
Kendrick Bourne
DeVante Parker
Demario Douglas
Rhamondre Stevenson
Ezekiel Elliott
Ty Montgomery
Kayshon Boutte

2024 Potential Week 1 Skill Players*:
*Obviously depends on final cutdowns, etc.

Demario Douglas
Ja'Lynn Polk
Javon Baker
K.J. Osborn
Tyquan Thornton
Rhamondre Stevenson (who they extended this offseason)
Antonio Gibson (above Montgomery - Elliott played way above expectations last year)
Kayshon Boutte

The ones highlighted in red are players who are absolutely upgrades over that original group, with Smith-Schuster, Parker, and Montgomery being guys who really didn't contribute and hamstrung their ability to do much.

I think Mayo is gone after year 2 but I hold out the possibility that he will get a 3rd year because we were tanking.

Also, you continue to beat this drum and I get it, you're not happy Bill is gone (and would have been gone in a few years anyway, but his timeline was unfortunately accelerated) and you also can't seem to come to grips with the fact that the team came off last season in a state where they were so bad that literally no one wants to sign here.

I've already stated the issue with postseason incentives, which players absolutely want a shot at. And again, short of guaranteeing 100% of their salary and overpaying to the point of obscene, you're not going to sway a player who would prefer to be elsewhere.

You keep calling Kraft cheap and I get it, you don't like him. But adding logic to the equation given how players spurned us, I don't know what you believe the team could have done to convinced those elite guys to come here without sweetening the deals so much that now you look financially irresponsible while also sabotaging future negotiations with your own players.

Look at what Cleveland did, as the lone prime example of a team offering a deal that was way too good to pass up to go to a bad football team. Deshaun Watson absolutely didn't want to go there. So the Browns went to the extreme of guaranteeing his contract and paying him a deal so outrageous that you saw the following offseason with Lamar Jackson's deal that even the rest of the league went, "those guys were nuts, and that contract was ridiculous, we're not paying him (or any other player) that."

Imagine New England throwing out deals like that this offseason since guys didn't want to come here. I can only imagine the commentary on the money being thrown around, and then seeing it play out down the road when it came time to resign similar players. It would be an absolute mess. Look at Washington and the deals they threw around at one point. That formula doesn't work long-term. And you know that.

They were a terrible team heading into this offseason and it is what it is. Let's revisit this next April after they've hopefully gone all-in on the offensive line and really have a better nucleus around Maye, who will also hopefully be in a better spot coming off his rookie year.

 

[203Pat]

Man...you're on a tear these days. The offense as a whole is significantly better, save for the offensive line - and that's probably going to have to be the priority draft-wise next April. And you can't throw out the draft picks because they absolutely do matter in this equation, especially given their trouble attracting free agents.

But to answer your question, they're already much improved compared to a year ago:

2023 Week 1 Offensive Skill Players:

JuJu Smith-Schuster
Kendrick Bourne
DeVante Parker
Demario Douglas
Rhamondre Stevenson
Ezekiel Elliott
Ty Montgomery
Kayshon Boutte

2024 Potential Week 1 Skill Players*:
*Obviously depends on final cutdowns, etc.

Demario Douglas
Ja'Lynn Polk
Javon Baker
K.J. Osborn
Tyquan Thornton
Rhamondre Stevenson (who they extended this offseason)
Antonio Gibson (above Montgomery - Elliott played way above expectations last year)
Kayshon Boutte

The ones highlighted in red are players who are absolutely upgrades over that original group, with Smith-Schuster, Parker, and Montgomery being guys who really didn't contribute and hamstrung their ability to do much.

Also, you continue to beat this drum and I get it, you're not happy Bill is gone (and would have been gone in a few years anyway, but his timeline was unfortunately accelerated) and you also can't seem to come to grips with the fact that the team came off last season in a state where they were so bad that literally no one wants to sign here.

I've already stated the issue with postseason incentives, which players absolutely want a shot at. And again, short of guaranteeing 100% of their salary and overpaying to the point of obscene, you're not going to sway a player who would prefer to be elsewhere.

You keep calling Kraft cheap and I get it, you don't like him. But adding logic to the equation given how players spurned us, I don't know what you believe the team could have done to convinced those elite guys to come here without sweetening the deals so much that now you look financially irresponsible while also sabotaging future negotiations with your own players.

Look at what Cleveland did, as the lone prime example of a team offering a deal that was way too good to pass up to go to a bad football team. Deshaun Watson absolutely didn't want to go there. So the Browns went to the extreme of guaranteeing his contract and paying him a deal so outrageous that you saw the following offseason with Lamar Jackson's deal that even the rest of the league went, "those guys were nuts, and that contract was ridiculous, we're not paying him (or any other player) that."

Imagine New England throwing out deals like that this offseason since guys didn't want to come here. I can only imagine the commentary on the money being thrown around, and then seeing it play out down the road when it came time to resign similar players. It would be an absolute mess. Look at Washington and the deal they threw around at one point. That formula doesn't work long-term. And you know that.

They were a terrible team heading into this offseason and it is what it is. Let's revisit this next April after they've hopefully gone all-in on the offensive line and really have a better nucleus around Maye, who will also hopefully be in a better spot coming off his rookie year.

But...but the cap space!!

 

[Ian]

But...but the cap space!!

I get it. But the Watson situation was the example that comes to mind given the talk on this as of late. Felger went there last week about the guaranteed money and really upset Reiss with accusations of his motives (which wasn't cool on Felger's part) but when it comes to landing these guys, if they have a bigger preference for elsewhere, you honestly have no shot unless you structure a deal so obscene that it's almost worse by signing the player given the ramifications. You're better off just walking away and using the money on guys who want to come here, and using the rest to keep your core in place.

 

[203Pat]

I get it. But the Watson situation was the example that comes to mind given the talk on this as of late. Felger went there last week about the guaranteed money and really upset Reiss with accusations of his motives (which wasn't cool on Felger's part) but when it comes to landing these guys, if they have a bigger preference for elsewhere, you honestly have no shot unless you structure a deal so obscene that it's almost worse by signing the player given the ramifications. You're better off just walking away and using the money on guys who want to come here, and using the rest to keep your core in place.

I agree. Andy keeps yelling about cap space over and over and how we didn't improve the team with it like that is the only way to build a roster. Free agency, to me at least, is meant to supplement the roster. You're either signing young unproven guys/underachievers or you're signing older bridge guys who can start while you develop your draft picks. We have teams like the Jets and Washington who have "won" free agency year after year only to fall on their faces every single fall.

Rome wasn't built in a day and overall I don't mind what the new regime has done in the offseason. They attempted to get playmaking receivers but it didn't work out. They re-signed some core players on the team (one or two I wouldn't have), and they drafted a QB to learn behind a veteran. Not putting enough resources into tackle may end up being a fatal flaw in 2024 but this team isn't going from 4 wins to playoff contender in one offseason.

 

[Ian]

I agree. Andy keeps yelling about cap space over and over and how we didn't improve the team with it like that is the only way to build a roster. Free agency, to me at least, is meant to supplement the roster. You're either signing young unproven guys/underachievers or you're signing older bridge guys who can start while you develop your draft picks. We have teams like the Jets and Washington who have "won" free agency year after year only to fall on their faces every single fall.

Rome wasn't built in a day and overall I don't mind what the new regime has done in the offseason. They attempted to get playmaking receivers but it didn't work out. They re-signed some core players on the team (one or two I wouldn't have), and they drafted a QB to learn behind a veteran. Not putting enough resources into tackle may end up being a fatal flaw in 2024 but this team isn't going from 4 wins to playoff contender in one offseason.

I agree, but at the same time, I at least feel like they'll address it properly next offseason. I think they were so bereft at wideout that after swinging and missing in March, they probably felt like they could get through this season at tackle with Okorafor, Anderson, Onwenu (if that was the plan...?) etc. and made the receiver position a priority. Granted, Wallace is a little nicked up so the verdict is still out there in terms of his impact/role for this season.

Still, I like Wolf's approach and the percentage of players they selected that will at least contribute feels relatively high, which is a positive. Especially the receivers, where high-round picks virtually never panned out and Polk already feels like a guy who will absolutely be a difference maker. I feel like they have good people in place in the personnel department to build the core around. And, as you said, if they can solidify the foundation, they'll have less of a need to supplement in terms of free agents. But honestly, this year's free agent class of tackles wasn't exactly great either, which we're already seeing based on how things are unfolding early with Tyron Smith, which was a name that was tossed around a fair amount.

 

[203Pat]

I agree, but at the same time, I at least feel like they'll address it properly next offseason. I think they were so bereft at wideout that after swinging and missing in March, they probably felt like they could get through this season and made the receiver position a priority. Granted, Wallace is a little nicked up so the verdict is still out there in terms of his impact/role for this season.

Still, I like Wolf's approach and the percentage of players they selected that will at least contribute feels relatively high, which is a positive. Especially the receivers, where high-round picks virtually never panned out and Polk already feels like a guy who will absolutely be a difference maker. I feel like they have good people in place in the personnel department to build the core around. And, as you said, if they can solidify the foundation, they'll have less of a need to supplement in terms of free agents. But honestly, this year's free agent class of tackles wasn't exactly great either, which we're already seeing based on how things are unfolding early with Tyron Smith, which was a name that was tossed around a fair amount.

After back to back years of basically whiffing at the position I have to think we are in the tackle market for next year's draft and hopefully we can find a cornerstone there. Every year a few top 10 receivers seem to be available via trade with even more rookies contributing early across the league. At this point we keep our resources and see what we have in the Douglas, Polk, Baker, trio and then revisit that spot next year if we need to. I just hope we can piece it together on the offensive line this year so we can see what we have with Maye.

 

[Thelonious]

I have said from the start that this year is ALL about evaluating and developing what we have with an eye to being actually competitive next year or more likely the year after. EVERYTHING should be done with this longer term perspective in mind. I literally do not care how many games they win. There are advantages to winning few or none in a higher draft choice. There are advantages to winning in that the team learns "how to win," grows in confidence, we get a sense of who can really help going forward and so on. In my mind these balance out, so I am genuinely indifferent as to their record.

While it is too early, of course, to form any firm opinion of Mayo, the other, coaches, the front office, to this point all have been very unimpressive. Mayo does not appear to have what it takes to be a head coach at this point. I could elaborate, but I don't want to type forever here. Neglecting to make at least some progress with the o-line was just plain irresponsible. The handling of Maye has been entirely inconsistent with the rationale I suggested above. They are not developing him, and they are not putting him into circumstances in which they can genuinely evaluate him. If I had to guess at this point, and it would only be a guess, I doubt Mayo is still HC in two years. He'll get a year's grace period b/c Robert likes him and may be reluctant to admit a mistake, but I have seen literally nothing which suggests Mayo has what it takes grow into the job. He's a "nice guy." So what? He's a people-pleasing, boss-schmoozing empty suit as far as I can see, and I have yet to see a hint that he is anything more.