PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Tuesday Patriots Training Camp Thread 8/13

[Family]

No those teams have always been cheap and with 1 exception in 1 season haven’t won anything.

No one has won anything, but KC, but each have a playoff win in the last two years.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Does he not get a say? I would put everything I own on him not agreeing to play here. Just cuz we have the money and you want it really badly doesn't mean it will happen.

He does not like NE taxes because NY taxes are preferred? He does not like MA geographically because NY/NJ is much better? Why do you think he would not sign here?

 

[Sicilian]

He does not like NE taxes because NY taxes are preferred? He does not like MA geographically because NY/NJ is much better? Why do you think he would not sign here?

Chance to win? I know it's the Jets and we laugh at them around here, but they have a proven quarterback, young proven talent at the skill positions, and a top flight defense. It's not a far fetch to think a 33 year old veteran towards the end of his career would rather shoot his shot with Aaron Rodgers rather than spend it with a team that probably won't be ready to contend until after he retires.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yes, I want a name that has a high likelihood of improving the situation. And while Smith may have done that, it's not weird to think a guy who's missed 50% of the games the last four years isn't going to make much difference if he's on IR. And I've already said multiple times that I would have taken him too. But IMO he's not worth *****ing about as though it was some kind of obvious whiff on the part of the Patriots. He has risk, and there's reason to believe he wasn't interested in signing here anyway.

Any older player can get injured. We are not going to sign a 27 year old, so the "old guys get injured" excuse is meaningless.

I agree that it was not a whiff by the Pats, in was done on purpose to save money for 2025, which is BS for "we have a cheap owner".

Smith wanted the NY taxes over the MA taxes? His family would perfer to live in the NY/NJ area over Boston? Most likely his family is staying in TX and Smith goes back and forth for 6 months. Being in NY or MA is insignificant when commuting. But please tell us, why isn't Smith interested in signing here?

 

[Sicilian]

Any older player can get injured. We are not going to sign a 27 year old, so the "old guys get injured" excuse is meaningless.

I agree that it was not a whiff by the Pats, in was done on purpose to save money for 2025, which is BS for "we have a cheap owner".

Smith wanted the NY taxes over the MA taxes? His family would perfer to live in the NY/NJ area over Boston? Most likely his family is staying in TX and Smith goes back and forth for 6 months. Being in NY or MA is insignificant when commuting. But please tell us, why isn't Smith interested in signing here?

Oh, so you're one of those "Everything is because Kraft wants more pocket money" folks. Carry on then. We see things in different ways.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Chance to win? I know it's the Jets and we laugh at them around here, but they have a proven quarterback, young proven talent at the skill positions, and a top flight defense. It's not a far fetch to think a 33 year old veteran towards the end of his career would rather shoot his shot with Aaron Rodgers rather than spend it with a team that probably won't be ready to contend until after he retires.

Either that or it is Smith's one or two last years and he wants to maximize his earnings. Do you think it is winning a SB with Aaron Rodgers or maximizing his earnings before he retires? If it was the Eagles, or KC, or the Bengals, or 49ers, you have a point. But the JETS with Rodgers coming off an Achilles is not believeable. That has nothing to do with hating the JETS. Ask Marino what it is like to recover from an Achilles later in a QB's career.

TLDR: Marino says a QB is never the same and has to learn how to throw differently. Marino says he still feels the injury even to this day.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article279312149.html

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Oh, so you're one of those "Everything is because Kraft wants more pocket money" folks. Carry on then. We see things in different ways.

$40M in cap space in 2024, plus the most cap space in 2025 and 2026, is on my side. Believe what you will.

Or examine independent evidence (doubtful you have an open mind). Our billionaire owner repeatedly drove a Bentley to a FL strip mall for massages. Why did he chose the FL strip mall? Of course, because he is a big spender.

Oh, so you are one of those, Bob Kraft walks on water even though everything points to a different point of view. Carry on then.

 

[Ring 6]

No one has won anything, but KC, but each have a playoff win in the last two years.

If you want to model yourself after those 3 teams good luck.

 

[Sicilian]

$40M in cap space in 2024, plus the most cap space in 2025 and 2026, is on my side. Believe what you will.

Or examine independent evidence (doubtful you have an open mind). Our billionaire owner repeatedly drove a Bentley to a FL strip mall for massages. Why did he chose the FL strip mall? Of course, because he is a big spender.

Oh, so you are one of those, Bob Kraft walks on water even though everything points to a different point of view. Carry on then.

My mind is plenty open. I think I've been pretty reasonable on this board for quite some time now. But I'll concede that my summation of your opinion on Bob Kraft was unfair and reductive. Just as your insinuation that I think he walks on water is. I'll be better about those kinds of comments going forward if you will.

There is a spending floor they have to reach for every three year period, and whether they do that all in one year or spread it out over three doesn't matter to me. They'll get there. I think it makes some sense to make sure you've got something in Drake Maye before you go spending balls to the wall. If for no other reason than, if 2025 free agents see Maye's potential, you're going to be serious contention to sign them, so having that space next year could help. And I do think they've tried to spend more this year (the Aiyuk offer says so anyway), but players see them as a team at rock bottom. The hope is next year is different, but we'll see.

As for why Smith wouldn't have signed with the Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals, or 49ers if he just wanted to win, I'd point out that those teams already have starting left tackles. So either he wants to start, or those teams didn't feel like they needed him.

 

[Family]

If you want to model yourself after those 3 teams good luck.

Which makes my point.

If hoarding cap until you have the right pieces brought these bozo franchises the most success they've had in decades (Jacksonville is debatable), then it has merit as a strategy.

 

[Ring 6]

Which makes my point.

If hoarding cap until you have the right pieces brought these bozo franchises the most success they've had in decades (Jacksonville is debatable), then it has merit as a strategy.

Well first of all that’s not what they did, and secondly they haven’t accomplished anything.

If your goal is be as good as moribund franchises who have risen to mediocrity you need a better goal.

But just to clarify you endorse starting over and following the model of the Browns, Bengals, and Jaguars as the best practice?

 

[Ring 6]

My mind is plenty open. I think I've been pretty reasonable on this board for quite some time now. But I'll concede that my summation of your opinion on Bob Kraft was unfair and reductive. Just as your insinuation that I think he walks on water is. I'll be better about those kinds of comments going forward if you will.

There is a spending floor they have to reach for every three year period, and whether they do that all in one year or spread it out over three doesn't matter to me. They'll get there. I think it makes some sense to make sure you've got something in Drake Maye before you go spending balls to the wall. If for no other reason than, if 2025 free agents see Maye's potential, you're going to be serious contention to sign them, so having that space next year could help. And I do think they've tried to spend more this year (the Aiyuk offer says so anyway), but players see them as a team at rock bottom. The hope is next year is different, but we'll see.

As for why Smith wouldn't have signed with the Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals, or 49ers if he just wanted to win, I'd point out that those teams already have starting left tackles. So either he wants to start, or those teams didn't feel like they needed him.

Let me ask you this.
If he “eventually spends” the cap minimum which is 89% over 4 years, you are good with that?
The underspending by hitting the minimum is about $120,000,000.

And a large problem is HOW he spends it.
Let’s look at Brissett. 1 year 7.882 mill.

A top free agent with a 5 year 65 million deal with a 30 million signing bonus would cost less than 7.882 year 1.

Is that the same use of the cap to build the best team?

Which has Kraft always done? Big contracts with high signing bonuses or short term deals with incentives? Which type of FA has Kraft typically signed? The young player commanding a top deal or the old player who will come cheap to play an extra year or 2?

What was the guarantee money with Aiyuk? If Aiyuk was adamant all along about only going to Pitt, maybe the numbers we threw at him, knowing he wouldn’t accept it was just PR to get someone like you to think that even though we sit on 43 mill that 10 mill cap hit offer means we wanted to spend the cap but they said no?

How many free agents did we make offers to and not get? If everyone of them said yes we still wouldn’t have used up the whole cap.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

My mind is plenty open. I think I've been pretty reasonable on this board for quite some time now. But I'll concede that my summation of your opinion on Bob Kraft was unfair and reductive. Just as your insinuation that I think he walks on water is. I'll be better about those kinds of comments going forward if you will.

My response mimicked your snarky response. I even copied your words to make it obvious. I am following your lead.

There is a spending floor they have to reach for every three year period, and whether they do that all in one year or spread it out over three doesn't matter to me. They'll get there. I think it makes some sense to make sure you've got something in Drake Maye before you go spending balls to the wall. If for no other reason than, if 2025 free agents see Maye's potential, you're going to be serious contention to sign them, so having that space next year could help. And I do think they've tried to spend more this year (the Aiyuk offer says so anyway), but players see them as a team at rock bottom. The hope is next year is different, but we'll see.

I do not see any need to hit the spending floor as legally mandated by the collective bargaining agreement. It would be OK to spend a bit more. There was a lot of talent in FA this year, just not WRs or offensive tackles. Why can't we sign value guys, other than WRs and Tackles, while looking to the future. I try to not think in a box.

As for why Smith wouldn't have signed with the Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals, or 49ers if he just wanted to win, I'd point out that those teams already have starting left tackles. So either he wants to start, or those teams didn't feel like they needed him.

My point, which you may have missed, is that the Pats did not have significant competition to sign Smith. Therefore, I believe the reason they did not sign Smith is because they wanted to sign the cheaper option. I think I am correct.

 

[Family]

Well first of all that’s not what they did, and secondly they haven’t accomplished anything.

If your goal is be as good as moribund franchises who have risen to mediocrity you need a better goal.

But just to clarify you endorse starting over and following the model of the Browns, Bengals, and Jaguars as the best practice?

I'm saying the best strategy does not involve spending wildly now.

It's questionable taking a WR instead of an OL in the second round, or how we spent the money we did, but the team should have a lot of cap available at this stage of the rebuild.

Or do you prefer to rebuild like the Jets have for decades?

 

[Sciz]

Which makes my point.

If hoarding cap until you have the right pieces brought these bozo franchises the most success they've had in decades (Jacksonville is debatable), then it has merit as a strategy.

The 2019 49ers are a good example here too, rolling $35M in but only $10M out, meaning they had a $213M total cap hit on a $188M cap on their way to a Super Bowl appearance.

 

[PatsFan2]

As far as fixing the problems that wouldn’t even be the breakfast orange juice much less the day.

Gotta start somewhere AJ.

 

[Steve102]

LT's don't hit free agency unless they have warts. They're just too valuable.

We will not have this kind of sensible talk around these parts, Mr.

 

[gobesmug]

It's the second most important position on offense IMO, behind QB. IF you can't block worth a ****, all the shiny toys at WR or TE won't get the ball because the QB is getting killed. I get why guys like @Tunescribe wanted to trade down and get the LT now. Build all the foundation and then bring the QB in isn't wrong. They just hedged their bet that Maye at #3 this year and a LT next year is better than Joe Alt and a QB at 10-12 next April. Who knows? Start watching Campbell, Banks and Jones and see what shakes out.

The Browns went 1-15 then 0-16 with a HOF LT in Joe Thomas and the Lions went 0-16 with a HOF WR in Calvin Johnson.

The Browns also only had 1 winning season during Joe Thomas' entire career.

Matt Light and Nate Solder were good LTs but no where near the player Joe Thomas was.

We don't need an elite LT or an elite Wr to win games. Having one is a great but it doesn't equal success. If Wallace can't play LT but can play RT, then the Pats can spend a top 10 pick next year on LT.

In other words, I would rather have the QB with all pro potential in Drake Maye and a good LT prospect in next year's draft, than having LT with all pro potential in Joe Alt this year to pair with a weak QB draft class next year.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I think I'd be willing to give up Polk and next year's one for us to trade up and take one of the tackles taken in the first. This is looking bad.

I would be very, very careful about giving up any future draft pick; these, ahem, could be very, ah, low numbers like first or second pick in the draft.

 

[signbabybrady]

I would be very, very careful about giving up any future draft pick; these, ahem, could be very, ah, low numbers like first or second pick in the draft.

No guarantees with rookies but had we invested in LT either through my trade scenario or free agency or even a trade then I don't think we'd be looking at top 5 or even top ten. Without the LT I'm pooping my pants.