PostGame Thread 2024 Preseason Game One: Patriots Win 17-3 over Carolina

[reflexblue]

Most good guards are drafted in the middle rounds. But I'd still note we've spent 2 1sts, 2 3rds, and 4 4ths.

Yeah i can agr3e with this, so the problem is in scouting. Finding guards that have enough talent to be coached up, and finding a coach that can do it. the same goes for the tackle position.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Yeah i can agr3e with this, so the problem is in scouting. Finding guards that have enough talent to be coached up, and finding a coach that can do it. the same goes for the tackle position.

OL coaching is very important to a team on going success. Bad coaching is as much to blame as drafting as the reason that OL is so bad. This is the first year that I have heard anything positive about the OL coach since the vax debacle canceled the last decent one. If Peters is the real deal we should see the young guys steadily improve over the course of the season. Even with good coaching I don't think the anchor LT is on the team this year.

 

[upstater1]

OL coaching is very important to a team on going success. Bad coaching is as much to blame as drafting as the reason that OL is so bad. This is the first year that I have heard anything positive about the OL coach since the vax debacle canceled the last decent one. If Peters is the real deal we should see the young guys steadily improve over the course of the season. Even with good coaching I don't think the anchor LT is on the team this year.

It's curious history to think we've had anyone good since Scarnecchia left. The 2019 season was not good, though there were many injuries. And we went to a very conservative running offense with Cam Newton in 2020. I don't see why/how Popovich is considered so good. He went to coach in the Sun Belt conference and is now an assistant OL coach. Some of you are overrating him.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

It's curious history to think we've had anyone good since Scarnecchia left. The 2019 season was not good, though there were many injuries. And we went to a very conservative running offense with Cam Newton in 2020. I don't see why/how Popovich is considered so good. He went to coach in the Sun Belt conference and is now an assistant OL coach. Some of you are overrating him.

According to Wikipedia Popovich was a RB coach in 2019 and co OL coach in 2020. Any perception of him being a good OL coach is based on a small sample size.

 

[captain stone]

It's curious history to think we've had anyone good since Scarnecchia left. The 2019 season was not good, though there were many injuries. And we went to a very conservative running offense with Cam Newton in 2020. I don't see why/how Popovich is considered so good. He went to coach in the Sun Belt conference and is now an assistant OL coach. Some of you are overrating him.

According to Wikipedia Popovich was a RB coach in 2019 and co OL coach in 2020. Any perception of him being a good OL coach is based on a small sample size.

Bill allowing Carmen Bricillo to join Skippy in LV in a lateral move - not a promotion - without having a better plan than Phatt Matt & Billy he sucks as a coach too Yates is even more confounding to me than the Popovich affair.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Bill allowing Carmen Bricillo to join Skippy in LV in a lateral move - not a promotion - without having a better plan than Phatt Matt & Billy he sucks as a coach too Yates is even more confounding to me than the Popovich affair.

Same situation with the WR coach Lombardi. It is no surprise that OL and WR have not been right since that time.

 

[upstater1]

Bill allowing Carmen Bricillo to join Skippy in LV in a lateral move - not a promotion - without having a better plan than Phatt Matt & Billy he sucks as a coach too Yates is even more confounding to me than the Popovich affair.

Bricillo got fired in half a season.

You guys are captains of the grass is always greener club.

The people being mentioned as alternates were out of work, fired, or toiling in the dregs of college football.

There's just no evidence to say the people let go were any better than the people brought on.

 

[Mike the Brit]

It seems to me that the o-line has never really been addressed since Bradys last year, and even in 2019 it wasn't
very good. Scars not here to make chicken salad out chicken **** anymore.

It's curious history to think we've had anyone good since Scarnecchia left. The 2019 season was not good, though there were many injuries. And we went to a very conservative running offense with Cam Newton in 2020. I don't see why/how Popovich is considered so good. He went to coach in the Sun Belt conference and is now an assistant OL coach. Some of you are overrating him.

Bill allowing Carmen Bricillo to join Skippy in LV in a lateral move - not a promotion - without having a better plan than Phatt Matt & Billy he sucks as a coach too Yates is even more confounding to me than the Popovich affair.

I was re-watching a game from 2021 and the announcers were noting how dominant the Pats O-line was. Certainly, it was allowing the running backs (Damien Harris and J.J. Taylor with a few carries by Rhamondre Stevenson) to make a lot of yards. The personnel was:

LT-Isaiah Wynn; LG-Ted Karras; C-David Andrews; RG-Shaq Mason; RT-Mike Onwenu

Decent players all, but only Wynn taken in Round 1.

So I think that the cap'n is right. It was the loss of Bricillo, the introduction of incompetent OL coaches, the forced trade of Mason following free agency extravagance, and the disillusion of Wynn (and Trent Brown) that led to the downward spiral.

 

[reflexblue]

I was re-watching a game from 2021 and the announcers were noting how dominant the Pats O-line was. Certainly, it was allowing the running backs (Damien Harris and J.J. Taylor with a few carries by Rhamondre Stevenson) to make a lot of yards. The personnel was:

LT-Isaiah Wynn; LG-Ted Karras; C-David Andrews; RG-Shaq Mason; RT-Mike Onwenu

Decent players all, but only Wynn taken in Round 1.

So I think that the cap'n is right. It was the loss of Bricillo, the introduction of incompetent OL coaches, the forced trade of Mason following free agency extravagance, and the disillusion of Wynn (and Trent Brown) that led to the downward spiral.

I'm sure there were times that the line played well, but overall they've been average or worse. And how long was that configuration together? Wynn was probably out do to injury the next game.

 

[upstater1]

I was re-watching a game from 2021 and the announcers were noting how dominant the Pats O-line was. Certainly, it was allowing the running backs (Damien Harris and J.J. Taylor with a few carries by Rhamondre Stevenson) to make a lot of yards. The personnel was:

LT-Isaiah Wynn; LG-Ted Karras; C-David Andrews; RG-Shaq Mason; RT-Mike Onwenu

Decent players all, but only Wynn taken in Round 1.

So I think that the cap'n is right. It was the loss of Bricillo, the introduction of incompetent OL coaches, the forced trade of Mason following free agency extravagance, and the disillusion of Wynn (and Trent Brown) that led to the downward spiral.

One game or even a string of games aren't going to tell us that much.

Remember, last year, we strung 4 100+ yard games and a few 150+ yard games in a row when the entire line was healthy. 167 yards followed by 147 yards followed by 148. And somehow they managed that with the defense totally disrespecting our passing game. Then we had 2 big injuries.

So it's a lot more complex than that.

Mason's subsequent play and getting cut twice by his new teams showed he was spent.

Wynn gave us his only good year in the league in 2021 and he wasn't really even that good. Also, I'm trying to parse how you have a good line in 2021 with Wynn as the LT and then they are delusional for having Wynn man the helm again in 2022.

 

[Zuma]

Whoever coached the OLine in 2020 had the benefit of inheriting a well coached unit by Dante.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Bricillo got fired in half a season.

You guys are captains of the grass is always greener club.

The people being mentioned as alternates were out of work, fired, or toiling in the dregs of college football.

There's just no evidence to say the people let go were any better than the people brought on.

It is fair to say that Bricillo is not the best OL coach in the league. While he has to be better than MP and Yates his loss was part of bigger dysfunction. Turning over a the OC, OL and WR coaches on a year that the team tried to implement a new system lead by a coach with little experience on offense created a big mess. The offense has not been functional since.

 

[upstater1]

It is fair to say that Bricillo is not the best OL coach in the league. While he has to be better than MP and Yates his loss was part of bigger dysfunction. Turning over a the OC, OL and WR coaches on a year that the team tried to implement a new system lead by a coach with little experience on offense created a big mess. The offense has not been functional since.

An offense without a QB isn't functional at all.

As soon as we get a good QB, things will change drastically.

I'm not sure how much an improvement Brissett will be over Mac, but I expect it will be better. The things defenses were doing to a Mac-lead offense just don't happen when the opposing QB is average or competent. Total disrespect by clogging the middle of the field. It will make your OL look disastrous. I'm not saying we have good players, but when the defense is on their back foot even a little bit, they'll give up 150 yards rushing.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

An offense without a QB isn't functional at all.

As soon as we get a good QB, things will change drastically.

I'm not sure how much an improvement Brissett will be over Mac, but I expect it will be better. The things defenses were doing to a Mac-lead offense just don't happen when the opposing QB is average or competent. Total disrespect by clogging the middle of the field. It will make your OL look disastrous. I'm not saying we have good players, but when the defense is on their back foot even a little bit, they'll give up 150 yards rushing.

Clearly Mac was not good. He was functional with JMD, his demise and the total collapse of the offense corresponded with the coaching mess. Despite the issues, this year feels much better with upgrades at QB and a coaching staff that has clear roles and much less discord.

 

[upstater1]

Clearly Mac was not good. He was functional with JMD, his demise and the total collapse of the offense corresponded with the coaching mess. Despite the issues, this year feels much better with upgrades at QB and a coaching staff that has clear roles and much less discord.

Football is a curious sport. Your coaches suck, the OL sucks, when your QB sucks. Conversely, your coaches look great, and so does your OL, when your QB is great.

I'm going to say something blasphemous on here: Scarnecchia coached an OL that played in front of Brady. They were bringing guys in off the scrapheap. Compton, Jennings, Donald Thomas, finding guys in the 7th round, Koppen, off the street, Connolly, Neal, etc. He was either the greatest OL in history or he coached an OL in front of a guy that got rid of the ball in 2 seconds.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Football is a curious sport. Your coaches suck, the OL sucks, when your QB sucks. Conversely, your coaches look great, and so does your OL, when your QB is great.

I'm going to say something blasphemous on here: Scarnecchia coached an OL that played in front of Brady. They were bringing guys in off the scrapheap. Compton, Jennings, Donald Thomas, finding guys in the 7th round, Koppen, off the street, Connolly, Neal, etc. He was either the greatest OL in history or he coached an OL in front of a guy that got rid of the ball in 2 seconds.

Both can be true. Those unheralded players performed on the field and Brady became the best at making the line look good by getting rid of it quickly. Brady is the GOAT at the most important position whose success was co-dependent on the team around him. The Giants Super Bowl is the best example of Brady not being able to do it all on his own. The other consideration is that Brady would not have had such a long career if he was getting hit all of the time. The magic broke down a few times when the injury list got too long. Otherwise the OL was never a concern under Scar. What do you call two GOATs? Is three a herd?

 

[upstater1]

Both can be true. Those unheralded players performed on the field and Brady became the best at making the line look good by getting rid of it quickly. Brady is the GOAT at the most important position whose success was co-dependent on the team around him. The Giants Super Bowl is the best example of Brady not being able to do it all on his own. The other consideration is that Brady would not have had such a long career if he was getting hit all of the time. The magic broke down a few times when the injury list got too long. Otherwise the OL was never a concern under Scar. What do you call two GOATs? Is three a herd?

The problem we're having is that the greatest QB doesn't need superstars in front of him. But a good QB will. Scars job was made a lot easier with Brady.

I watched Brady a lot with the Bucs. Shaq Mason almost got him killed a few times. Donovan Williams was a nightmare and so were a few of the leftover guards. By the end of the 1st year, guys who suck like Williams had learned enough about Brady to know they could get away things that would become bad habits on other teams. Joe Thuney is about the ony OL I know who left New England in Brady's heyday and had success elsewhere. Maybe Koppen too. But others who were signed away (Solder, Donald Thomas, etc.) struggled.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

The problem we're having is that the greatest QB doesn't need superstars in front of him. But a good QB will. Scars job was made a lot easier with Brady.

I watched Brady a lot with the Bucs. Shaq Mason almost got him killed a few times. Donovan Williams was a nightmare and so were a few of the leftover guards. By the end of the 1st year, guys who suck like Williams had learned enough about Brady to know they could get away things that would become bad habits on other teams. Joe Thuney is about the ony OL I know who left New England in Brady's heyday and had success elsewhere. Maybe Koppen too. But others who were signed away (Solder, Donald Thomas, etc.) struggled.

I hate being in the position of implying anything negative about the GOAT QB, I don't understand why everything has to be all Brady and no one else gets acknowledgement for their contributions to the dynasty. It is just as valid to say that Scar and the other coaches and players made Brady's job easier, especially before he became the greatest QB ever. There will never be another 20 year run like the Pats or another TB12. We are lucky to have been fans of the team that made that happen. If post Pats track record is evidence that Scar was not a good coach, OL is no different than other positions when it comes to players not doing much after leaving the Pats. A year too early was a real thing for managing the roster. Damien Woody comes to mind as a player that had a few good years with Detroit after he left. Mankins did as well.

 

[upstater1]

I hate being in the position of implying anything negative about the GOAT QB, I don't understand why everything has to be all Brady and no one else gets acknowledgement for their contributions to the dynasty. It is just as valid to say that Scar and the other coaches and players made Brady's job easier, especially before he became the greatest QB ever. There will never be another 20 year run like the Pats or another TB12. We are lucky to have been fans of the team that made that happen. If post Pats track record is evidence that Scar was not a good coach, OL is no different than other positions when it comes to players not doing much after leaving the Pats. A year too early was a real thing for managing the roster. Damien Woody comes to mind as a player that had a few good years with Detroit after he left. Mankins did as well.

I never said Scar isn't a good coach. He clearly is.

And I also didn't say the rest of the team or coaches didn't make huge contributions.

But all through the Dynasty I made the point that the OL specifically was MADE by Brady. We picked up flotsam and jetsam and made them stars. Scar had a hand in that. But when you can anchor without a worry of holding it for more than 3 seconds, it's a lot easier to play OL. I mean, Donald Thomas made millions on that free agent contract.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I never said Scar isn't a good coach. He clearly is.

And I also didn't say the rest of the team or coaches didn't make huge contributions.

But all through the Dynasty I made the point that the OL specifically was MADE by Brady. We picked up flotsam and jetsam and made them stars. Scar had a hand in that. But when you can anchor without a worry of holding it for more than 3 seconds, it's a lot easier to play OL. I mean, Donald Thomas made millions on that free agent contract.

I am simply saying it was a two way street. I agree that peak Brady was the best QB who made all the other players around him better. Brady did not MAKE the OL for the first 3 championships. They had real talent, including Neil who was one of the baddest men on the planet. Scar helped him realize his potential as a football player. That does not take away from Brady's accomplishments.