Are We Really Ready At Defensive Back?

[Ring 6]

Who is the outside starting CB that you are comparing to those other positions?

The guy who played there the must and the best Jon Jones.

 

[Zuma]

Fair enough, but first things first.

Agreeing that Wilson makes the team gives us a good start (actually a good staring seven if we add the safeties).

Gonzo, Jon Jones, Marcus Jones, Wilson
Dugger, Peppers, Hawkins

Either Jon Jones or Wilson could start as outside corner opposite Gonzo.
=====================
THE REST ARE STILL FIGHTING TO MAKE THE ROSTER
Wade
Dial
Bolden
Austin

CB1 Gonzo, Bolden
CB2 Wilson, Austin
CB3 M. Jones, Wade
SS: Dugger, Peppers
FS: J. Jones, Hawkins, Schooler

Or

CB1: Gonzo, Wade
CB2: Wilson, Austin, Bolden
CB3: J. Jones, M. Jones
SS: Dugger, Peppers
FS: Hawkins, Schooler

 

[mgteich]

The guy who played there the must and the best Jon Jones.

fair enough

If we start Jon Jones outside, I agree that outside corner isn't our weakest starting position.

If Jon Jones is outside, I would then have nickelback as the weakest starting position.

 

[Ring 6]

fair enough

If we start Jon Jones outside, I agree that outside corner isn't our weakest starting position.

If Jon Jones is outside, I would then have nickelback as the weakest starting position.

T,DL,QB,DT2,WR all worse

 

[Wozzy]

I’m on the Marco Wilson CB2 bandwagon as well but IMO it’s too early to anoint him. He hasn’t earned it yet.

Ehhh... I think taking the starting job as a rookie under Kliff Kingsbury and never giving it back earns him some points. After Jon Jones he has the most experience among all the CB's. He's already starting opposite Gonzo, he should retain that barring injury.

 

[Wozzy]

I should have included Osborn. We know Pop, Polk and Baker are locks and there is a big fight for WRs 4 and 5 so I'm not sure if he'll make it especially if Bourne comes off the pup soon but he does seem decent too.

Not as familiar with Hill I'll have to keep an eye out for him.

Bourne hasn't practiced once, I suspect the PUP is a given at this point... and they for sure shouldn't rush him back. It would be easy enough to slide someone else onto the practice squad once he's ready and the younger guys could use the reps.

Osborn was also running with the #1's in the first game, barring injury or just a calamitous performance in the remaining preseason I don't see how he's not a lock. They might also see the wisdom in trading Bourne once he's healthy, they might just have too many receivers.

Hill had a great game the other night, pushed the pocket, had a sack, ran down a RB on a screen ten yards downfield to make a tackle. Impressive... plus he's just a really good athlete. He might be a late bloomer as he's never really lived up to his draft position.

 

[Ring 6]

CB1 Gonzo, Bolden
CB2 Wilson, Austin
CB3 M. Jones, Wade
SS: Dugger, Peppers
FS: J. Jones, Hawkins, Schooler

Or

CB1: Gonzo, Wade
CB2: Wilson, Austin, Bolden
CB3: J. Jones, M. Jones
SS: Dugger, Peppers
FS: Hawkins, Schooler

Dugger and Peppers are playing virtually every down, not backing up each other.

Since we play nickel base with either a 3rd corner or 3rd safety the lineup will be
GONZO, JJONES, DUGGER, PEPPERS and either MJONES, HAWKINS or WILSON/AUSTIN/WADE

 

[signbabybrady]

Bourne hasn't practiced once, I suspect the PUP is a given at this point... and they for sure shouldn't rush him back. It would be easy enough to slide someone else onto the practice squad once he's ready and the younger guys could use the reps.

Osborn was also running with the #1's in the first game, barring injury or just a calamitous performance in the remaining preseason I don't see how he's not a lock. They might also see the wisdom in trading Bourne once he's healthy, they might just have too many receivers.

Hill had a great game the other night, pushed the pocket, had a sack, ran down a RB on a screen ten yards downfield to make a tackle. Impressive... plus he's just a really good athlete. He might be a late bloomer as he's never really lived up to his draft position.

By the reports Bourne seems to be working daily and he would seem to be ready enough that he might not want to miss 6 games. I know it's a convenient way to carry an extra WR. And he could be on board with not rushing but I'm not ready to just assume that.

And Osborn looks pretty good and I'm not trying to under sell him but I think Boutte, Tyquan, Reagor, and whoever else I'm not thinking of are making this an interesting competition.

 

[mgteich]

By the reports Bourne seems to be working daily and he would seem to be ready enough that he might not want to miss 6 games. I know it's a convenient way to carry an extra WR. And he could be on board with not rushing but I'm not ready to just assume that.

And Osborn looks pretty good and I'm not trying to under sell him but I think Boutte, Tyquan, Reagor, and whoever else I'm not thinking of are making this an interesting competition.

If Bourne is on IR, he only misses 4 games.

 

[TheRainMaker]

CB1 Gonzo, Bolden
CB2 Wilson, Austin
CB3 M. Jones, Wade
SS: Dugger, Peppers
FS: J. Jones, Hawkins, Schooler

Or

CB1: Gonzo, Wade
CB2: Wilson, Austin, Bolden
CB3: J. Jones, M. Jones
SS: Dugger, Peppers
FS: Hawkins, Schooler

Peppers is a starting S. Given the contracts they've handed out like Oprah this off-season, I wouldn't put it past them to have Peppers a backup Dugger even though Peppers can be argued the better player.

 

[mgteich]

Peppers is a starting S. Given the contracts they've handed out like Oprah this off-season, I wouldn't put it past them to have Peppers a backup Dugger even though Peppers can be argued the better player.

Continue to make up your fantasy world.

Pepper and Dugger are our starting safeties, just like last year.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Continue to make up your fantasy world.

Pepper and Dugger are our starting safeties, just like last year.

Like Dugger's snap count going up from 66% in 2022 to over 97% in 2023? Dugger is the main guy in the secondary now. Peppers is at 83%.

And you echoed what I already stated that Peppers is a starting safety which my what my original post was about.

Fantasy world...lol.

 

[Wozzy]

By the reports Bourne seems to be working daily and he would seem to be ready enough that he might not want to miss 6 games. I know it's a convenient way to carry an extra WR. And he could be on board with not rushing but I'm not ready to just assume that.

And Osborn looks pretty good and I'm not trying to under sell him but I think Boutte, Tyquan, Reagor, and whoever else I'm not thinking of are making this an interesting competition.

Bourne got paid, he won’t be back to full strength to start the season even if he has the best intentions so he has to do what’s best for the team. If he becomes a distraction he is easily traded.

They’re definitely deep at WR, consistency in preseason and good performance against better opponents will separate the men from the boys.

 

[signbabybrady]

Bourne got paid, he won’t be back to full strength to start the season even if he has the best intentions so he has to do what’s best for the team. If he becomes a distraction he is easily traded.

They’re definitely deep at WR, consistency in preseason and good performance against better opponents will separate the men from the boys.

Do you have any reports that confirm this. He seems a lot closer than you think and plenty of players have returned this quick or sooner.

Another poster mentioned you can put a few players on short term IR in preseason which would give him a chance to practice and prove himself ready and if not short term IR is 4 weeks instead of 6.

 

[Wozzy]

Do you have any reports that confirm this. He seems a lot closer than you think and plenty of players have returned this quick or sooner.

Another poster mentioned you can put a few players on short term IR in preseason which would give him a chance to practice and prove himself ready and if not short term IR is 4 weeks instead of 6.

He hasn’t practiced at all, game two of preseason is this week. It usually takes a year from knee surgery to get back to full strength, it would be smart to push Bourne’s return back as long as they can. They could deal with an injury or two at WR and he would be a great guy coming in to help.

 

[signbabybrady]

He hasn’t practiced at all, game two of preseason is this week. It usually takes a year from knee surgery to get back to full strength, it would be smart to push Bourne’s return back as long as they can. They could deal with an injury or two at WR and he would be a great guy coming in to help.

You keep trying to convince me of something that is very reasonable. I don't need convincing I just don't think you can automatically assume this will be the case. He seems pretty close and players want to play and aren't necessarily going to just sit 4-6 weeks so the team can play another WR instead of him and save a roster spot for a few weeks.

I will grant that in a 3 week preseason instead of a four that this might be an indication that they might be going with your plan. But again I don't think you can just assume anything. There's 4 weeks until the start of the year so maybe he doesn't play in a preseason game but that's still a lot of time to get him up to speed.

Lastly I'm not sure why you're saying a year for ACL recovery these days it is more like 6-9 months.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I think the fan base has prematurely rushed to anoint Gonzo as the next stud CB1.

I think the options across from him are "meh" at best and eventually we'll need a real CB2 (if Gonzo is CB1, even).

I think Dugger/Peppers are great players but there continues to be an issue with them not complimenting each other perfectly and the lack of a true starting FS hurts their ability to play coverage vs. deep passing teams.

I think the DB room is fine for a rebuilding team. It's not a crippling weakness. I think if we do turn this thing around in the next 2-3 years though, it will become a unit we look at as limiting our ceiling. They still need some upgrades here.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think the fan base has prematurely rushed to anoint Gonzo as the next stud CB1.

I think the options across from him are "meh" at best and eventually we'll need a real CB2 (if Gonzo is CB1, even).

I think Dugger/Peppers are great players but there continues to be an issue with them not complimenting each other perfectly and the lack of a true starting FS hurts their ability to play coverage vs. deep passing teams.

I think the DB room is fine for a rebuilding team. It's not a crippling weakness. I think if we do turn this thing around in the next 2-3 years though, it will become a unit we look at as limiting our ceiling. They still need some upgrades here.

First yes absolutely we have rushed to anoint Gonzo but just because we have rushed does not mean that we are wrong. This man shut down some seriously good WRs and looked excellent in the games he played in last year. So I think the high expectations are justified.

Second I like the other options we have at corner. Jonathan has basically been CB1 except for the few games Gonzo played in for about 2 years now. Marco Wilson has several years experience and seems to be fitting in. Marcus has some serious size and health concerns but looks awesome at everything he does CB/STs/ even WR. And then Bolden/Dial/Austin/and whoever else I'm not thinking of offer good competition for depth spots.

Third I think the ideal situation at safety would be to have a guy like DMac who can play the more traditional FS role and who can cover like a corner but it's just not easy to find and I think it goes to show just how much we underappreciated DMac while he was here. That being said I think is tremendous value in having guys with redundant skills playing both safety spots it allows us to disguise things differently and it allows us to play the run better when 5 DBs are on the field which is basically a base D now. When we get in long down and distance situations and if we ever get a big lead then you use Jonathan at FS other than that I want Peppers and Dugger both out there together.

Lastly this DB group would be great excellent for a contender not just a rebuilding team and I expect them to be a strength of this team.

 

[Wozzy]

You keep trying to convince me of something that is very reasonable. I don't need convincing I just don't think you can automatically assume this will be the case. He seems pretty close and players want to play and aren't necessarily going to just sit 4-6 weeks so the team can play another WR instead of him and save a roster spot for a few weeks.

I will grant that in a 3 week preseason instead of a four that this might be an indication that they might be going with your plan. But again I don't think you can just assume anything. There's 4 weeks until the start of the year so maybe he doesn't play in a preseason game but that's still a lot of time to get him up to speed.

Let’s see if he practices first… he has been watching. He needs to get into football shape.

Lastly I'm not sure why you're saying a year for ACL recovery these days it is more like 6-9 months.

Months is the time it takes to recover, a year is how long it usually takes to get back to 100%.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

First yes absolutely we have rushed to anoint Gonzo but just because we have rushed does not mean that we are wrong. This man shut down some seriously good WRs and looked excellent in the games he played in last year. So I think the high expectations are justified.

Second I like the other options we have at corner. Jonathan has basically been CB1 except for the few games Gonzo played in for about 2 years now. Marco Wilson has several years experience and seems to be fitting in. Marcus has some serious size and health concerns but looks awesome at everything he does CB/STs/ even WR. And then Bolden/Dial/Austin/and whoever else I'm not thinking of offer good competition for depth spots.

Third I think the ideal situation at safety would be to have a guy like DMac who can play the more traditional FS role and who can cover like a corner but it's just not easy to find and I think it goes to show just how much we underappreciated DMac while he was here. That being said I think is tremendous value in having guys with redundant skills playing both safety spots it allows us to disguise things differently and it allows us to play the run better when 5 DBs are on the field which is basically a base D now. When we get in long down and distance situations and if we ever get a big lead then you use Jonathan at FS other than that I want Peppers and Dugger both out there together.

Lastly this DB group would be great excellent for a contender not just a rebuilding team and I expect them to be a strength of this team.

Not saying high hopes/expectations for Gonzo aren't justified. Just saying it's not an established level of performance to bank on. Shut down is also a strong word for what he did last year. He gave up a good amount of catches/yards. He just very much looked the part of playing competitive coverage against great players. Very encouraging, but that exact performance last year was not shut down of CB1 level, IMO. Not as-is.

Jon Jones has been great. I guess I kind of figure this team is 2-3 years away from competing at a high level so my point with him more was on that timeline and I don't expect him to still be on the team or playing at a high level by then. Maybe, but he'll be 33/34 on that timeline.

I just think it's a stretch to call this a great/excellent unit because there isn't an established #1 CB, the #2 CB is aging and best served as a slot, and the #3 is a combination of guys cut by other teams as soon as last year (Wilson, Austin), late round picks (Bolen, Dial) and a severely undersized player (M Jones). At safety, I like their players but they don't have anyone I would call a "plus" option for defending the deep parts of the field.

IF Gonzo plays up to his potential and IF someone really emerges from the camp competition as a great outside CB and IF Jon Jones is re-signed and maintains his level of play and IF Dugger/Peppers iron out the details of their roles and how they manage the deep coverage parts of safety then I agree this could be a great unit for any contending team. I just think lots of ifs for that. Most likely, we'll be calling for some tweaks to it by the time we're able to contend IMO.