Celtics 2023 - 2024 Discussion

[Kdo5]

It's a mentality.. players have to have it in them.. I like the angry Tatum that showed up last night, d white came back down to earth.. Holiday finally contributed offensively.. the Js showed up last night and took a nice road win..

Agreed. Jrue was big but it really comes back to Brown/Tatum. Al was gassed and had a rough outing, bench didn’t provide much points, DWhite’s shot was off. Very back and forth game and it seemed like Brown and Tatum repeatedly answered with drives to the rim or mid range shots to keep that 10-12 point lead.

 

[ausbacker]

It's a mentality.. players have to have it in them.. I like the angry Tatum that showed up last night, d white came back down to earth.. Holiday finally contributed offensively.. the Js showed up last night and took a nice road win..

Of course they have it in them. They're also prone to repeating bouts of immense stupidity, like getting into a three point shooting contest with the greatest shooter of all time.

The Jays are frustrating as they have all the tools to be great.

 

[Real fan 02]

Agreed. Jrue was big but it really comes back to Brown/Tatum. Al was gassed and had a rough outing, bench didn’t provide much points, DWhite’s shot was off. Very back and forth game and it seemed like Brown and Tatum repeatedly answered with drives to the rim or mid range shots to keep that 10-12 point lead.

Spot on. With KP out jrue is going to have to be more aggressive looking for his shot more. He's been a big time playoff performer. He's here for the long run so the teams better whenever he's been aggressive. The Js definitely led the team to victory

 

[Real fan 02]

Of course they have it in them. They're also prone to repeating bouts of immense stupidity, like getting into a three point shooting contest with the greatest shooter of all time.

The Jays are frustrating as they have all the tools to be great.

No argument there. They are 8 year veterans you'd think they would have all those bone head mistakes out thier system. They both are better when they are off the ball.. being able to cut, and slice through lanes.

 

[Real fan 02]

Pritchard is OK defending shorter guards. Switching on the bigs is an issue.

Agreed. Is why I want us to face a beat up, worn down kicks team.. next series. Brunson is wearing down..

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think the argument was that Hauser should start in place of Brown because of plus/minuses. Watching Hauser guarding D Mitchell is a disaster. Anyone that thinks Hauser should start in place of Brown has no concept of defense.

Did you watch the previous game? Mitchell completely torched Brown. Brown is a better on ball defender than Hauser, especially in the post. Hauser is a better off ball defender than Brown. Overall Brown is a little better. Both of them are in the average range. The Celtics have a similar defensive rating with either one.

I get why people would think Brown is a much better defender, if you consider defense to be athleticism and on-ball physicality. However, points from pick and rolls, switching, and zones count just the same.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Celtics don't have an Alpha who identifies trouble, then takes over the game and wills the team to victory. Our two "best" players are wingmen.

They do. Derrick White. The issue is they don’t prioritize him enough.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The "Celtics are better without Jaylen Brown!" take has been aging like milk.

Brown has a BPM of 2.9 (similar to Tatum) this postseason and his advanced stats are up. They show he’s adding value. It really just confirms that the stats are indeed accurate when accounting his value on the bottom line. The entire season he has been neutral at best, but his high usage and variance costs them most of their competitive games against elite teams. We’ll see if he can keep it up…probably not since he needs to sustain a very high field goal percentage to make up for all the areas where he’s inefficient.

The Celtics just need to figure it out for one series. No one in the east is going to beat them. The margin of error against Denver or Minnesota (or maybe OKC) is going to be very small.

 

[Real fan 02]

They do. Derrick White. The issue is they don’t prioritize him enough.

Believe it or not that guy is Al.. he is just an older player who obviously doesn't possess the skills of the Js.. like during the bulls run.. of course MJ was an alpha.. but he said Horace grant was the alpha dog!

 

[Kdo5]

Brown has a BPM of 2.9 (similar to Tatum) this postseason and his advanced stats are up. They show he’s adding value. It really just confirms that the stats are indeed accurate when accounting his value on the bottom line. The entire season he has been neutral at best, but his high usage and variance costs them most of their competitive games against elite teams. We’ll see if he can keep it up…probably not since he needs to sustain a very high field goal percentage to make up for all the areas where he’s inefficient.

The Celtics just need to figure it out for one series. No one in the east is going to beat them. The margin of error against Denver or Minnesota (or maybe OKC) is going to be very small.

Defense. He’s a way better defender than you’ve ever given him credit for so he is making an impact well beyond scoring. Sam was tripping over his own feet trying to guard Donovan Mitchell.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Defense. He’s a way better defender than you’ve ever given him credit for so he is making an impact well beyond scoring. Sam was tripping over his own feet trying to guard Donovan Mitchell.

Go read my last post on Brown/Hauser. Brown is a really good on ball post defender. Brown is an average to good overall defender who can play with a lot of power and quickness when he’s planted. He isn’t good in zones, switching, or helpside.

Brown also got eaten alive by Mitchell in game 2 but whatever…Mitchell is one of the 10 best perimeter offensive players on earth so not saying Brown sucks overall. But if you’re going to note that about Hauser, go watch Q3 of G2. Mitchell juked Brown out of his jock on 3 straight possessions.

Brown is an overall better defender than Hauser although there isn’t an enormous gap.

Hauser isn’t a great defender but he’s okay, closer to average than bad. He simply doesn’t have the quickness to be great and of course shouldn’t be guarding Mitchell. However, Hauser is much better off ball at taking away angles and knowing when to switch and help. He uses his lesser physical gifts quite efficiently.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Believe it or not that guy is Al.. he is just an older player who obviously doesn't possess the skills of the Js.. like during the bulls run.. of course MJ was an alpha.. but he said Horace grant was the alpha dog!

Maybe in terms of attitude and leadership, it’s Horford. When it comes to which guy is has the alpha in him with the game on the line, who will hit the dagger, and has that will to win, it’s White. His clutch stats are absolutely insane and so is the eye test. He’s at his best when the pressure is cranked up. Tatum and Brown are at their worst (especially Tatum). KP and Holiday are fine, you get the same neutral consistency from them whether it’s crunch time or not. Anyone who denies this after all this time is delusional.

 

[Real fan 02]

Maybe in terms of attitude and leadership, it’s Horford. When it comes to which guy is has the alpha in him with the game on the line, who will hit the dagger, and has that will to win, it’s White. His clutch stats are absolutely insane and so is the eye test. He’s at his best when the pressure is cranked up. Tatum and Brown are at their worst (especially Tatum). KP and Holiday are fine, you get the same neutral consistency from them whether it’s crunch time or not. Anyone who denies this after all this time is delusional.

I'll agree. I was listening on NBC sports Boston the other day and it was interesting that scal and Eddie asked Brad about extending white.

He said he hoped too! If they can keep white, brown and Tatum together they can flourish as thier prime years go along. I believe Tatum needs to be fired up.. Brown does thst for him and absolutely Al.. jrue is a quiet lead by example guy. We need KP back in order to get to where we all believe they can go.

 

[Zuma]

I'll agree. I was listening on NBC sports Boston the other day and it was interesting that scal and Eddie asked Brad about extending white.

He said he hoped too! If they can keep white, brown and Tatum together they can flourish as thier prime years go along. I believe Tatum needs to be fired up.. Brown does thst for him and absolutely Al.. jrue is a quiet lead by example guy. We need KP back in order to get to where we all believe they can go.

Brown > White

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Did you watch the previous game? Mitchell completely torched Brown. Brown is a better on ball defender than Hauser, especially in the post. Hauser is a better off ball defender than Brown. Overall Brown is a little better. Both of them are in the average range. The Celtics have a similar defensive rating with either one.

I get why people would think Brown is a much better defender, if you consider defense to be athleticism and on-ball physicality. However, points from pick and rolls, switching, and zones count just the same.

Brown had a defensive play of the game on Mitchell in Game #1.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'll agree. I was listening on NBC sports Boston the other day and it was interesting that scal and Eddie asked Brad about extending white.

He said he hoped too! If they can keep white, brown and Tatum together they can flourish as thier prime years go along. I believe Tatum needs to be fired up.. Brown does thst for him and absolutely Al.. jrue is a quiet lead by example guy. We need KP back in order to get to where we all believe they can go.

Tbh I’m not that thrilled about the Holiday contract. It’s a 4 yr deal and he’s 33. I love him as a player but that’s a big commitment.

I think White is better and is 29. I hope it doesn’t indicate they’re not able to reach terms with White.

Obviously I hope they trade Brown and then extend White. They could free up a lot of money and also I imagine they’d get a big return on Brown. Multiple first round picks and they’d be able to add cheap, young talent every year.

 

[Real fan 02]

Tbh I’m not that thrilled about the Holiday contract. It’s a 4 yr deal and he’s 33. I love him as a player but that’s a big commitment.

I think White is better and is 29. I hope it doesn’t indicate they’re not able to reach terms with White.

Obviously I hope they trade Brown and then extend White. They could free up a lot of money and also I imagine they’d get a big return on Brown. Multiple first round picks and they’d be able to add cheap, young talent every year.

What I love about wyc is he has no issues pulling out the pen. He's one the best owners in the NBA and is touch with reality and his players and coaches. Brown is the most athletic player on our roster. Holliday yeah the deal was a little mind boggling to me as well.. but hey never going to fault players for getting paid. I believe it all hinges upon what happens this playoffs.

If we make the finals and win it then I can see the band kept together. If not then I've been saying trade D White for McDaniels in Minnesota.

I believe Browns here for the long while his max contract is hard to move right now.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What I love about wyc is he has no issues pulling out the pen. He's one the best owners in the NBA and is touch with reality and his players and coaches. Brown is the most athletic player on our roster. Holliday yeah the deal was a little mind boggling to me as well.. but hey never going to fault players for getting paid. I believe it all hinges upon what happens this playoffs.

If we make the finals and win it then I can see the band kept together. If not then I've been saying trade D White for McDaniels in Minnesota.

I believe Browns here for the long while his max contract is hard to move right now.

I mean if money is no issue here then I love it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There was nothing wrong with the Holiday extension. It came at a lower salary than what it would have been had he not signed the extension and gives the C's cost-certainty the next 2+ years. If they want to include him in a future deal they can (cap match or expiring deal).

No idea if they'll sign White but if they do it means Horford's time here is over next year. That money can be applied to White's deal.

Trade Brown?....Jesus.

 

[Kdo5]

Brown > White

I love DWhite but the team only goes as far as Tatum & Brown take them. They have always been the most important players on the court for us. When they perform we win. When they don't play well we lose. (Tatum NBA finals, Brown 2023 Game 7). Thus far Brown has been our best player all around in the playoffs.