The Krafts are relentless in their assault on Belichick's coaching.

[HSanders]

Bill was integral but I think they would of been fine without him too.

Brady was winning no matter who his coach was the last 15 years of his career.

there is no "last 15 years of tb's career" without bb. obviously tb gets 100% credit for his own work ethic,drive,and skill. but what if bb had not seen what tb could become and helped develop him? what if he had stayed with bledsoe? remember,bb was so confident that he made the right call that he traded bledsoe WITHIN THE DIVISION. i think that that is unprecedented. all while he was on thin ice already per the kraftumentary.

 

[venecol]

Ever consider that it's easier for a player to join a team with 12 Pro Bowlers and win than it is for a coach to rebuild a team and win?

Players and coaches are two different things, and they impact the game differently.

I suppose a fairer comparison would be if Arians took over the Patriots in '20 with Brady at QB while Belichick went down to Tampa with Phillip Rivers or Joe Flacco.

 

[upstater1]

Meanwhile, Bill the undisputed goat and genius he is couldn't find a job with the countless teams that have the roster but don't have the coach when he was available.

Stop playing with semantics. If you think Bill is better at being a coach than Brady is at playing football, you're wrong. Unconditionally and objectively patently wrong.

If that's NOT your take then you're wasting your time. We all know Bill was a great coach. We just know that Brady made his system and not the other way around.

The point went way over your head. Coaches don't play. Of course coaches can't win without players. Players are plug-and-play. It's a non-sense argument from the start

 

[upstater1]

Even Curran who has killed BB a lot recently feels that the pats front office and ownership is doing a lot of unwarranted grave dancing on the past

Curran is so prepared to turn on this team. These people not only make money from doing things this way, I think they actually enjoy it.

 

[upstater1]

I'm not sure why you wanna give Bill so much credit for the success but not hold him accountable for his drafting and team success the last 4 years.

His bad drafting, in spite of winning Superbowls also accelerated the horrible roster decline.

I don't think the last 4 drafts were bad. Not at all. I think the 4 previous to that were. But we also lost 3 premium picks to Deflategate and sputtered and squandered several more picks on vets (who didn't help) so that the Dynasty could continue on vapor. This is the whole reason why we had a 33% increase in the # of picks from '20-'23 than we had '16-'19.

Roster decline is expected on any team, not only because your vets get old, but for winning teams, they pick at the end of each round and they also lose picks bringing in vets.

The NFL is built this way.

 

[upstater1]

there is no "last 15 years of tb's career" without bb. obviously tb gets 100% credit for his own work ethic,drive,and skill. but what if bb had not seen what tb could become and helped develop him? what if he had stayed with bledsoe? remember,bb was so confident that he made the right call that he traded bledsoe WITHIN THE DIVISION. i think that that is unprecedented. all while he was on thin ice already per the kraftumentary.

The game-planning in the playoffs alone.

It's interesting to see people's reasoning and why there's such a great divergence of opinion. I happen to think it's crazy given the mediocrity of coaching around the NFL. The '96 season was a real eye opener for me. From 6 wins the previous year to the Super Bowl, because suddenly we had an opportunistic defense. When you look at that team, they added very little on D to have such an outsized impact. It was really just a bunch of vets who came in like Otis Smith, Willie Clay and Brian Cox. In. '96 I thought Belichick would've been the perfect hire.

 

[XLIX]

Jeff Fisher: 8 games over .500, Super Bowl appearance.

Care to give us Belichick's stats without Brady? Look 'em up if you have to.... you won't like it.

 

[Boomer B]

12 Pro Bowlers? I am going to need to see the source behind that. This year's Super Bowl champion only had 5.

That aside, your above statement is BS. Rebuilding a team is a process, but Belichick drove this team into the ground. In year 4 of the rebuild, they were 4-13.

I used to compare Belichick without Brady to Jeff Fisher. That was an unfair comparison; Jeff Fisher is far, far better.

Haha, he doesn’t use pro bowlers for that year, he uses pro bowls from that year, years before, and years after!

 

[signbabybrady]

Jeff Fisher: 8 games over .500, Super Bowl appearance.

Care to give us Belichick's stats without Brady? Look 'em up if you have to.... you won't like it.

Fisher had an MVP QB and the best he could do was one SB loss.

What's his record without his MVP QB?

 

[festy1986]

there is no "last 15 years of tb's career" without bb. obviously tb gets 100% credit for his own work ethic,drive,and skill. but what if bb had not seen what tb could become and helped develop him? what if he had stayed with bledsoe? remember,bb was so confident that he made the right call that he traded bledsoe WITHIN THE DIVISION. i think that that is unprecedented. all while he was on thin ice already per the kraftumentary.

To give Bill credit for Brady is a slap in the face to all the work he did.

I'm trying to play your guys game but you won't budge an inch.

Brady drove the train baby. Bill just set the schedule.

Brady is the ****ing goat and to say that's because of Bill and not because of Brady is ridiculous.

Look at the clowns Bill saddled him with over and over and over again.

The disrespect was real.

 

[festy1986]

The point went way over your head. Coaches don't play. Of course coaches can't win without players. Players are plug-and-play. It's a non-sense argument from the start

I think my point couldn't be any clearer and yet you still do not comprehend it.

Bill was a pretty good defensive coach. Brady made him the GOAT.

Not the other way around.

 

[venecol]

Roster decline is expected on any team, not only because your vets get old, but for winning teams, they pick at the end of each round and they also lose picks bringing in vets.

The NFL is built this way.

The Chiefs don't seem to have a problem picking at the end of each round. They've been killing their drafts. Maybe having a good GM makes all the difference in the world. Lol

 

[venecol]

there is no "last 15 years of tb's career" without bb. obviously tb gets 100% credit for his own work ethic,drive,and skill. but what if bb had not seen what tb could become and helped develop him? what if he had stayed with bledsoe? remember,bb was so confident that he made the right call that he traded bledsoe WITHIN THE DIVISION.

This is such an overused statement. Every video that I've seen between Bill and Tom, it's Tom giving Bill ideas. Sure, as a rookie, Tom needed to be developed. The strength & conditioning staff got him stronger. The OC got him prepared for the schemes, etc. Bill wasn't spending 1 on 1 w/ Tom while he worked his way up from 4th stringer to back-up QB. Tom had already been through all of that at Michigan. Nobody taught him his work ethic, commitment, drive, heart, leadership, etc. Tom was a natural, not on the athletic side, but on the intelligence and intangibles. Tom was a freak competitor and went out and got his own coaches and conditioning guys. He was relentless in his search for perfection.

Bill is not an offensive coach. Bill is not a QB whisperer. Bill didn't call offensive plays. Yes, the Patriots helped develop Tom when he first came into the league. Just like every NFL team develops players. It didn't take Bill to develop Tom. That's nonsense. Tom would've flourished with any other HC.

 

[venecol]

Haha, he doesn’t use pro bowlers for that year, he uses pro bowls from that year, years before, and years after!

Which is typical of upstater, exaggerating, embelishing or flat out lying. He's been called out on his fabrications dozens of times but he continues his bs. Dude has no shame. One of the worse Team Bill posters on the forum.

 

[signbabybrady]

The Chiefs don't seem to have a problem picking at the end of each round. They've been killing their drafts. Maybe having a good GM makes all the difference in the world. Lol

I think there are couple counter points to that example. First no knock on the Chiefs at all they are the current dynasty. But they are an example of both great GMing and how tough it is picking at the end of RDs.

I would say the roster this year was a little weaker than previous years kind of like 2018 compared to the few years previous for us. Still great obviously.

Also and I'm not sure it matters that much But Dorsey was actually GM when they drafted Jones, Tyreek, and Mahomes. Veach the current GM was promoted in July after the Mahomes draft. He reportedly was high on him and it probably had to do with his promotion. But something tells me you wouldn't cut BB that break if he wasn't actually the GM at the time.

Lastly talk to me in another decade after several more years picking that low.

 

[signbabybrady]

This is such an overused statement. Every video that I've seen between Bill and Tom, it's Tom giving Bill ideas. Sure, as a rookie, Tom needed to be developed. The strength & conditioning staff got him stronger. The OC got him prepared for the schemes, etc. Bill wasn't spending 1 on 1 w/ Tom while he worked his way up from 4th stringer to back-up QB. Tom had already been through all of that at Michigan. Nobody taught him his work ethic, commitment, drive, heart, leadership, etc. Tom was a natural, not on the athletic side, but on the intelligence and intangibles. Tom was a freak competitor and went out and got his own coaches and conditioning guys. He was relentless in his search for perfection.

Bill is not an offensive coach. Bill is not a QB whisperer. Bill didn't call offensive plays. Yes, the Patriots helped develop Tom when he first came into the league. Just like every NFL team develops players. It didn't take Bill to develop Tom. That's nonsense. Tom would've flourished with any other HC.

Well let's see what Brady has to say about it because you can't get a better source:

 

[venecol]

Fisher had an MVP QB and the best he could do was one SB loss.

What's his record without his MVP QB?

Bob Kraft has more SB appearances w/o Brady than Bill, who has none.

Playoff record w/o Brady:

Kraft: 3-4, AFCC, SB appearance
Belichick: 1-2, no championships or SBs

 

[venecol]

I think there are couple counter points to that example. First no knock on the Chiefs at all they are the current dynasty. But they are an example of both great GMing and how tough it is picking at the end of RDs.

I would say the roster this year was a little weaker than previous years kind of like 2018 compared to the few years previous for us. Still great obviously.

Also and I'm not sure it matters that much But Dorsey was actually GM when they drafted Jones, Tyreek, and Mahomes. Veach the current GM was promoted in July after the Mahomes draft. He reportedly was high on him and it probably had to do with his promotion. But something tells me you wouldn't cut BB that break if he wasn't actually the GM at the time.

Lastly talk to me in another decade after several more years picking that low.

It doesn't matter who the GM was, upstater's point was that winning teams picking at the end of each round have difficulties in getting good players. That's total ********.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think my point couldn't be any clearer and yet you still do not comprehend it.

Bill was a pretty good defensive coach. Brady made him the GOAT.

Not the other way around.

I guess I missed the part of Belichick's career where Brady Mentored him? Pretty sure Bill coached for 30 years without Tom and won 2 SBs before him and went to a third. Bill long earned his way in the NFL before Brady and then he Drafted and developed the greatest player in NFL history Tom Brady.

Facts are facts you can hate him all you want and you can have your opinions on how important you think a coach or a player is but you can't rewrite history.

 

[signbabybrady]

Bob Kraft has more SB appearances w/o Brady than Bill, who has none.

Playoff record w/o Brady:

Kraft: 3-4, AFCC, SB appearance
Belichick: 1-2, no championships or SBs

Are you forgetting the Superbowls he won with the Giants. Try again.