PostGame Thread 2023 OFFICIAL Week 18 PostGame Thread: Patriots Lose to Jets 17-3

[Ring 6]

the giants lost 13:10 to the Jets while the giants qb threw for 7 yards total

accept it pls

Ok that’s 1. Now you are getting it.
You will find the patriots had the most.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Ok that’s 1. Now you are getting it.
You will find the patriots had the most.

there are plenty of other examples
giants vs eagles 33-25 loss f.e. 133 passing yards

the bears had a ****ty qb, the panthers with brice young, jets with their qbs, it's not only the pats

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Probably but that’s irrelevant.

How is it making excuses to identify what the weakness is? Bb drafted the QBs didn’t he?

how is that irrelevant? it is essential for your point

you want to say that the pats win close games with better qb play to prove the point that the roster and coaching isnt that bad

but you fail to account how bad the other qb play was either, which leads to differences in talent and coaching level that lead to the close loss

 

[palialka]

Review the games. Review the qb play. We lost with pathetic qb play. Replace the pathetic play with adequate and clearly it’s win. Take Indy for example, if the qb who played awful all day, and was kept in the game by the defense didn’t choke by underthrowing a wide open receiver in the end zone for the game winning TD 14 years away by 6 years, perhaps the worst pass in nfl history, the game is a win.
Replace awful qb play with adequate in those 7 games, even for one drive in many cases, and they are wins.

It’s like saying if you lose by 2 and your FG kicker missed a last second FG you would have won if he made the kick.

Listen man, we’re getting nowhere with this. Let’s just agree to disagree.

We can only go up from the bottom so here’s to a great off season and more wins in 2024

 

[Ring 6]

there are plenty of other examples
giants vs eagles 33-25 loss f.e. 133 passing yards

the bears had a ****ty qb, the panthers with brice young, jets with their qbs, it's not only the pats

You will find lots of losses with bad qb play. You will find fewer where the team all but overcame the bad qb play and you will fine the most examples with the patriots.

 

[Ring 6]

Listen man, we’re getting nowhere with this. Let’s just agree to disagree.

We can only go up from the bottom so here’s to a great off season and more wins in 2024

Do what you want, but I’m not going to “agree to disagree” when I am right.

 

[Ring 6]

how is that irrelevant? it is essential for your point

you want to say that the pats win close games with better qb play to prove the point that the roster and coaching isnt that bad

but you fail to account how bad the other qb play was either, which leads to differences in talent and coaching level that lead to the close loss

You play who you play.

So you are arguing the facts because of the conclusion you think I would draw from them if you accepted them.

That is tremendously disingenuous.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No you compared the patriots to the Steelers and ignored that the difference was turnovers.

Because it wasn't the primary reason they lost games.

All of those things consider, they all were part of those games, and if the qb wasn’t horrible they win. Look at the exact games and the plays that occurred. Ask the qb to play adequately. They become wins. Which ones are you saying wouldn’t?

Speculation. Improve all the other areas and maybe they do get to 10-7

Are you honestly saying you think the patriots pass defense was below average? You just blamed that more than the pathetic qb play.

I think their defense was overrated

Please read these words because I’ve said them many times and you keep pretending I said something different. IF THEY HAD ADEQUATE QB PLAY IN THOSE GAMES.
I’m not searching for who am average is, and projecting results. I am watching the tape of those games and saying if the qb was adequate instead of worse than backup level in those games, or even at times in those games, it changes the result.

Fine. Drop the "they win 7 more games" nonsense and I might agree with you.

 

[palialka]

Do what you want, but I’m not going to “agree to disagree” when I am right.

Listen, you have to learn to accept that other people have different opinions than you…right or wrong.

You saying that you’re right doesn’t mean that you are…that’s only in your mind. Believe it or not, not everyone agrees with you.

Having your convictions and beliefs is one thing; that serves a purpose for more important things in life. Arguing in certainties and that you are 100% right about wins and QB play on a fan message board, especially when there’s no way to actually prove your point, is pointless.

Like I said, we have our different opinions on this. We’ll never know for a fact how many games would have been won with a different QB; accept that and move on.

 

[Ring 6]

Because it wasn't the primary reason they lost games.

Speculation. Improve all the other areas and maybe they do get to 10-7

I think their defense was overrated

Fine. Drop the "they win 7 more games" nonsense and I might agree with you.

You compared pittsburghs entire season.

I identified 7 games. I think it is very reasonable. You seem to not like that because it indicates they would have turned a bad season into a pretty good one and it offends your “whole roster stinks” comfort zone.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What about the bad QB play of teams we faced? Does that also get fixed in this moronic theoretical?

 

[Ring 6]

Listen, you have to learn to accept that other people have different opinions than you…right or wrong.

You saying that you’re right doesn’t mean that you are…that’s only in your mind. Believe it or not, not everyone agrees with you.

Having your convictions and beliefs is one thing; that serves a purpose for more important things in life. Arguing in certainties and that you are 100% right about wins and QB play on a fan message board, especially when there’s no way to actually prove your point, is pointless.

Like I said, we have our different opinions on this. We’ll never know for a fact how many games would have been won with a different QB; accept that and move on.

If you want to move on, then move on. If you want to continue to argue about it, then keep responding. Telling me to move on while you continue to argue is ignorant. Especially when you continue to misstate my arguments.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You compared pittsburghs entire season.

Yes I did because i'm not cherry-picking games to make a ridiculous point like you.

I identified 7 games. I think it is very reasonable. You seem to not like that because it indicates they would have turned a bad season into a pretty good one and it offends your “whole roster stinks” comfort zone.

The D line is good. Punting has been decent as well.

I see. You think the 2023 NEP have a good roster. Got it.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes I did because i'm not cherry-picking games to make a ridiculous point like you.

The D line is good. Punting has been decent as well.

I see. You think the 2023 NEP have a good roster. Got it.

I am identifying exactly what happened in specific games. How else would you do it? Cumulative statistics? lol.


I think the 2023 Patriots had the worst qb room in the league. The rest of the roster would have been competitive with a decent qb. They have weaknesses, but the overall team would have won more games than they lost if they weren’t shot in the foot by the QB play.

They lost 8 games by 1 score and scored 17 or less 12 times. With the worst qb play in the league. Surely qb play matters, doesn’t it?

 

[50-yard-line]

so was the qb play of the other teams who had better records than the pats
explain that pls
andy isn't getting it

I don't believe any team in the league had WORSE QB play than the Patriots.

Name the teams in question, since the story isn't a broad brush. For example, the JEST Defense is fantastic - can't take that away from them. After his dismal performance against the Cowboys in week 2, Zach Wilson threw 3 - JUST 3! - picks. Also, for all his warts, and they're considerable, Wilson, particularly with Garrett Wilson there, can challenge much more of the field than Mac Jones.

The JEST had a better turnover differential than the Patriots - and that matters.
The JEST beat the Giants and the Commanders with competent, even good, QB play - two games the Pats lost because of BAD QB play. Flip those two games alone and the Pats win 6, the JEST 5. Both teams had sucky QB'ing, both teams sucked - but suckage isn't a straight line (Mac v Buffalo, Wilson v Texans, if you get my point).

I'll add in that Wilson went off in a couple of games, most notably the Texans' game. He can do that. He can win a game with his arm. It's sporadic and I want nothing to do with him, but he has the physical talent to do things Jones and Zappe cannot. If I'm a DC, I'd rather face Jones or Zappe than Wilson.

 

[PatsFan2]

Zappe is just Awful.

 

[Sciz]

I believe* Sidy Sow is PFF’s second rated rookie OL, just falling behind Dawand Jones after this week. I wonder if that ugly sack when he was forced to play LT (due to a sixth OT injury/illness) was what cost him the top spot.

Now my overall skepticism of PFF grades is well established, but the only other stat that exists here is Madden grade, so it will have to do. I’ll go with a broader takeaway than “second best” and just say that he looks like he belongs in the NFL. That’s really the most you can say about any of the rookie OL this year.


*Via looking up the rookies’ pages individually. I don’t think I missed anybody, but let me know if I did.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't believe any team in the league had WORSE QB play than the Patriots.

Name the teams in question, since the story isn't a broad brush. For example, the JEST Defense is fantastic - can't take that away from them. After his dismal performance against the Cowboys in week 2, Zach Wilson threw 3 - JUST 3! - picks. Also, for all his warts, and they're considerable, Wilson, particularly with Garrett Wilson there, can challenge much more of the field than Mac Jones.

The JEST had a better turnover differential than the Patriots - and that matters.
The JEST beat the Giants and the Commanders with competent, even good, QB play - two games the Pats lost because of BAD QB play. Flip those two games alone and the Pats win 6, the JEST 5. Both teams had sucky QB'ing, both teams sucked - but suckage isn't a straight line (Mac v Buffalo, Wilson v Texans, if you get my point).

I'll add in that Wilson went off in a couple of games, most notably the Texans' game. He can do that. He can win a game with his arm. It's sporadic and I want nothing to do with him, but he has the physical talent to do things Jones and Zappe cannot. If I'm a DC, I'd rather face Jones or Zappe than Wilson.

Most PatsFans would disagree regarding Wilson not me I'll also add if the Bears are moving on from Fields we should be in the mix he shouldn't cost us a lot.

 

[PatsFan2]

Yes I did because i'm not cherry-picking games to make a ridiculous point like you.

The D line is good. Punting has been decent as well.

I see. You think the 2023 NEP have a good roster. Got it.

Drinking through those glass they look pretty good to some people.

 

[PatsFan2]

I am identifying exactly what happened in specific games. How else would you do it? Cumulative statistics? lol.


I think the 2023 Patriots had the worst qb room in the league. The rest of the roster would have been competitive with a decent qb. They have weaknesses, but the overall team would have won more games than they lost if they weren’t shot in the foot by the QB play.

They lost 8 games by 1 score and scored 17 or less 12 times. With the worst qb play in the league. Surely qb play matters, doesn’t it?

And???