PatFanKen Where Art Thou?

[venecol]

I disagree with this. @patfanken has a superficial knowledge of the game, is a Bill stan who never admitted he was wrong about anything, doubled down, tripled down, moved the goalposts time after time, always claiming it was all part of the greater plan, wait until next year, and in the most arrogant way reminded everyone of his superior football knowledge. He and his gang of sycophants were the worst posters on here. If re-posting his own posts is mocking, against board rules, or against etiquette in some way, then this isn’t really a discussion forum. Perhaps just once he should be accountable for years of horrible takes…after all it is in response to him and others like him that several posters have either been banned or left the forum. I think it’s amusing that after all the undeserved pats on the back he got, and full invincibility from the mods, he’s now disappeared, leaving you to defend him.

I think Ken had enough of a background in football that gave him insight that he liked to share with us. I had no issues with his posts which were usually very late, sometimes in the wee hours of the night. The main weakness of his threads was his writing style. He just wasn't a very good writer.

He always claimed he wanted to jot down his notes of the game before he had time for anything else. Then one night I noticed something he wrote that sounded familiar. Sure, enough I had read something very similar by an analyst. I was disappointed upon realizing he was probably plagiarizing others content. Afterwards, his threads never felt the same.

 

[VrabelJr]

Man ... you guys are killing me. Just because you guys debated back and forth and were upset that there was a lot of optimism about Jones, Belichick, and the direction of the team a couple of years ago, I don't see the value in taking a victory lap. I mean, and I've said it a few times, we all lose. All of us now have to watch the same thing, and none of us had any control over what was going on throughout, regardless of our opinions of how we though it would play out.

It sucks, and there's nothing we can do to change it.

I get it. The people who claim they knew it all along are now seeing the errors over the offseason - which quite a few of us had concerns about, but were hoping it wouldn't be this bad - come to fruition. It's been a blast, hasn't it?

Yes, Brady Left

We all saw Cam Newton's season (which started off well, but also imploded, albeit not this badly), a playoff run, last year's hot mess, and now this implosion.

We know Bill can coach. But we know that clearly, in the last few years going back to 2019 (we can debate others, but let's skip that for this exercise) roster-building has been his Achilles heel.

Brady won a title in Tampa and silenced all the doubters about him vs Manning vs Mahomes vs Rodgers vs whoever. I'd be willing to bet if he stayed and didn't get another ring, even with six, people would still question him. Fortunately, it didn't happen. Take the victory and be happy with it, because I'm also glad it ultimately played out that way.

So ... now what?

Belichick's probably done, and we're about to see an era come to an end. That whole "be careful what you wish for" thing isn't always that great. I recall the tenor back in 1997 when people said "good riddance" to Parcells after the nonsense he pulled that postseason having back-channel discussions with the Jets. Pete Carroll is looked back on much differently now here than when he was fired in 1999. Time does that.

But anyone hoping the next person is going to be a breath of fresh air may find it may actually take a couple of coaching cycles - and years of our lives - before that happens. And the first time they happen to get anywhere and a bad decision is made in a key moment, I'm guessing people will start to reflect positively with Belichick.

I'm not saying anything more than we can talk all day about Brady being the GOAT, but Brady didn't play defense, and he didn't put the game plans together that kept things close and gave both him and the offense a chance at the end. I love the guy, but he never made our lives easy and blew a single team out in any of those six Super Bowls.

Raise your hand if you wish we could not have been stressed out in the final moments of any of those. How amazing would that have been? Would have been great to just kick back - just once - and watch them run it up.

Wait until January ...

And I feel like this January, like it does each and every year, is going to reveal how important coaching is, especially because every postseason, a good quarterback also goes down thanks to that. It even happened to Brady, unfortunately. Bowles just is who he is.

Belichick certainly doesn't have a clean sweep in this category because I'll personally never let the Malcolm Butler decision go. Ever. But I don't want to talk about that in this thread.

Lastly, @patfanken is one of the best people we've ever had on here. So, mocking him is absolutely unnecessary. You're bashing him over things he said over the course of a handful of seasons. He's been here for 20+ years, has played and coached the game, and will forget more than most of us know. And he's been far more right than he's ever been wrong.

At the end of the day, who cares? I'm cool if I'm wrong, just like I feel like most of us and you guys are. Just because someone gives me a hard time doesn't mean I'm going to throw it back in anyone's face, and I'm referring to all the other posts in this thread. It can all change in a second...it is what it is.

Nothing good is going to come from it, other than personal satisfaction. Aside from that, I don't see the benefit.

You guys are all better than this. Let's let it go and move on.

I’m sorry you had to write this, but since you did you may as well pin it to the top of the forum.

 

[Ian]

I’m sorry you had to write this, but since you did you may as well pin it to the top of the forum.

It's nothing that's ground-breaking enough to warrant a pin. I was awake and cranky...albeit, I know things suck, and it's tough for people to be positive about much right now. I mean, we're debating on whether or not this is the worst Patriots team ever going back to the early 90s, and there's certainly enough data to warrant the comparison - and the criticism.

I get it...it's pretty sad that I've reverted back to being excited to see whether or not we can see some development from another young quarterback and maybe a couple of other players, along with potentially a few pleasant surprises in the remaining five weeks of this disaster. We'll see how it goes.

 

[VrabelJr]

It's nothing that's ground-breaking enough to warrant a pin. I was awake and cranky...albeit, I know things suck, and it's tough for people to be positive about much right now. I mean, we're debating on whether or not this is the worst Patriots team ever going back to the early 90s, and there's certainly enough data to warrant the comparison - and the criticism.

I get it...it's pretty sad that I've reverted back to being excited to see whether or not we can see some development from another young quarterback and maybe a couple of other players, along with potentially a few pleasant surprises in the remaining five weeks of this disaster. We'll see how it goes.

People have a hard time realizing the grass isn’t always greener. I like your callout of the games we will see in January showing just how good BB is. If we do move on from BB we will see how these posters like losing games due to poor clock management, head scratching third down play calls, not having diamond in the rough veterans and UDFAs, more fumbles, not having a top 5-10 defense, and countless other things we take for granted.

I even recall some of these usernames incessantly complaining about something — anything — during the good times. I’m not here to be their philosopher and I thank god for the mute functionality every day.

Defending their actions because it’s worse elsewhere on the internet is a new low bar for them. The behavior I see on here lately reminds me why some pro athletes refuse to play for Boston teams. We may have some of the best fans, but the North East’s worst fans are the absolute worst.

 

[Guts]

People have a hard time realizing the grass isn’t always greener. I like your callout of the games we will see in January showing just how good BB is. If we do move on from BB we will see how these posters like losing games due to poor clock management, head scratching third down play calls, not having diamond in the rough veterans and UDFAs, more fumbles, not having a top 5-10 defense, and countless other things we take for granted.
.

All that happened with Tom Brady as the QB though...Without Tom Brady he's a mediocre coach at least when it comes to the W/L record. There's more to it obviously, but the numbers speak for themselves there's a large sample size now. I just wanted us to be relevant...we are never going to go back to the dynastic run again, but can't we just be like Seattle at the minimum?

 

[VrabelJr]

All that happened with Tom Brady as the QB though...Without Tom Brady he's a mediocre coach at least when it comes to the W/L record. There's more to it obviously, but the numbers speak for themselves there's a large sample size now. I just wanted us to be relevant...we are never going to go back to the dynastic run again, but can't we just be like Seattle at the minimum?

We didn’t just lose Brady. I’m tired of typing all the names we’ve lost since 2019. It takes time to build a team. Seattle went through more years of mediocrity than we have.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think Ken had enough of a background in football that gave him insight that he liked to share with us. I had no issues with his posts which were usually very late, sometimes in the wee hours of the night. The main weakness of his threads was his writing style. He just wasn't a very good writer.

He always claimed he wanted to jot down his notes of the game before he had time for anything else. Then one night I noticed something he wrote that sounded familiar. Sure, enough I had read something very similar by an analyst. I was disappointed upon realizing he was probably plagiarizing others content. Afterwards, his threads never felt the same.

I didn’t bother posting it because I thought everyone already knows this.

 

[PATS16N0]

I didn’t bother posting it because I thought everyone already knows this.

Everybody knows this except people who thought Mac Jones was the future and Belichick was responsible for the Patriot dynasty.

 

[Guts]

We didn’t just lose Brady. I’m tired of typing all the names we’ve lost since 2019. It takes time to build a team. Seattle went through more years of mediocrity than we have.

Since Wilson left?
They went 9-8 last year
and their .500 this year bur are at least competitive

 

[40yrpatsfan]

We didn’t just lose Brady. I’m tired of typing all the names we’ve lost since 2019. It takes time to build a team. Seattle went through more years of mediocrity than we have.

Seattle's a pretty good comp to us actually. Pete Carroll is older than BB, both are defensive coaches. They dipped a couple of years ago and I'm sure many of their fans wanted to dump Pete. They bailed on Wilson and lucked into Geno Smith, now they're relevant again. The big thing they've done well is acquire WR's, which we need to get MUCH better at.

 

[Guts]

Seattle's a pretty good comp to us actually. Pete Carroll is older than BB, both are defensive coaches. They dipped a couple of years ago and I'm sure many of their fans wanted to dump Pete. They bailed on Wilson and lucked into Geno Smith, now they're relevant again. The big thing they've done well is acquire WR's, which we need to get MUCH better at.

I'd also add Carroll's coaching/personality is more suitable for the social media age players.
Not to say that BB's can't work but it does make it harder for players to buy in specially when losing

 

[VrabelJr]

Since Wilson left?
They went 9-8 last year
and their .500 this year bur are at least competitive

7-10 his last season with the team. They likely finish with a worse record this season than last unless they can go better than 3-2 against Philly, SF, Tennessee, PIttsburgh, and Arizona. The only good team they've beaten is Detroit which makes them paper tigers. Is that the right trajectory?

 

[Thelonious]

Given that events are finite and time is infinite, ALL things recur in cycles, some longer, some shorter.

Football dynasties are no exception. A dynasty arguably over twenty years long is a remarkable outlier. We ought to be grateful for that, rather than whining about its having reached it's duration or accusing those who take note of this fact of showing insufficient ardor in their fandom.

It's over. Another cycle is about to begin. The curve's trend early in such things is inevitably upward, however haltingly or obscurely. Let's look for signs of that rather than requiring of one another that we wallow in happy delusions about where we are, or wallow in despair over the fact we are not immune to the laws of the universe.

Your homework is to read a little Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius. For those interested in a darker perspective on such things, try Nietzsche, but bear in mind that he died mad.

 

[Rob0729]

People have a hard time realizing the grass isn’t always greener. I like your callout of the games we will see in January showing just how good BB is. If we do move on from BB we will see how these posters like losing games due to poor clock management, head scratching third down play calls, not having diamond in the rough veterans and UDFAs, more fumbles, not having a top 5-10 defense, and countless other things we take for granted.

I even recall some of these usernames incessantly complaining about something — anything — during the good times. I’m not here to be their philosopher and I thank god for the mute functionality every day.

Defending their actions because it’s worse elsewhere on the internet is a new low bar for them. The behavior I see on here lately reminds me why some pro athletes refuse to play for Boston teams. We may have some of the best fans, but the North East’s worst fans are the absolute worst.

The simple fact is when Belichick leaves whether it is next month or two years from now, it is going to be a crapshoot to whether the Pats get a good head coach or not to replace him.

But that day is coming. I personally think it should be sooner than later since the Pats will be rebuilding at least the offense and will be in the best spot for a head coach and GM to put their imprint on the team with cap spending and high draft picks. Better to move on now than to build a team for Belichick that might not be the right roster for the next guy. But the fact the Pats have a decent defense with its two best players out, they have a ton of cap space next year, and likely will have a top 3 pick might actually help the Pats get the top candidates for GM and head coach.

 

[venecol]

7-10 his last season with the team. They likely finish with a worse record this season than last unless they can go better than 3-2 against Philly, SF, Tennessee, PIttsburgh, and Arizona. The only good team they've beaten is Detroit which makes them paper tigers. Is that the right trajectory?

They don't need to go better, they can finish 3-2 and have the same record as last season when they made the playoffs at 9-8. That was one season after losing their franchise QB. That's with Geno ****ing Smith!

Beating TEN, PIT & ARZ is doable. The 2 teams ahead of them for the #7 spot have a higher SOS, so they have a chance. That's 100x better than where we are.

I believe if Pats lose on TNF they would be eliminated from the playoffs. When was the last time that happened in Wk 14?

 

[Steve102]

Man ... you guys are killing me. Just because you guys debated back and forth and were upset that there was a lot of optimism about Jones, Belichick, and the direction of the team a couple of years ago, I don't see the value in taking a victory lap. I mean, and I've said it a few times, we all lose. All of us now have to watch the same thing, and none of us had any control over what was going on throughout, regardless of our opinions of how we though it would play out.

It sucks, and there's nothing we can do to change it.

I get it. The people who claim they knew it all along are now seeing the errors over the offseason - which quite a few of us had concerns about, but were hoping it wouldn't be this bad - come to fruition. It's been a blast, hasn't it?

Yes, Brady Left

We all saw Cam Newton's season (which started off well, but also imploded, albeit not this badly), a playoff run, last year's hot mess, and now this implosion.

We know Bill can coach. But we know that clearly, in the last few years going back to 2019 (we can debate others, but let's skip that for this exercise) roster-building has been his Achilles heel.

Brady won a title in Tampa and silenced all the doubters about him vs Manning vs Mahomes vs Rodgers vs whoever. I'd be willing to bet if he stayed and didn't get another ring, even with six, people would still question him. Fortunately, it didn't happen. Take the victory and be happy with it, because I'm also glad it ultimately played out that way.

So ... now what?

Belichick's probably done, and we're about to see an era come to an end. That whole "be careful what you wish for" thing isn't always that great. I recall the tenor back in 1997 when people said "good riddance" to Parcells after the nonsense he pulled that postseason having back-channel discussions with the Jets. Pete Carroll is looked back on much differently now here than when he was fired in 1999. Time does that.

But anyone hoping the next person is going to be a breath of fresh air may find it may actually take a couple of coaching cycles - and years of our lives - before that happens. And the first time they happen to get anywhere and a bad decision is made in a key moment, I'm guessing people will start to reflect positively with Belichick.

I'm not saying anything more than we can talk all day about Brady being the GOAT, but Brady didn't play defense, and he didn't put the game plans together that kept things close and gave both him and the offense a chance at the end. I love the guy, but he never made our lives easy and blew a single team out in any of those six Super Bowls.

Raise your hand if you wish we could not have been stressed out in the final moments of any of those. How amazing would that have been? Would have been great to just kick back - just once - and watch them run it up.

Wait until January ...

And I feel like this January, like it does each and every year, is going to reveal how important coaching is, especially because every postseason, a good quarterback also goes down thanks to that. It even happened to Brady, unfortunately. Bowles just is who he is.

Belichick certainly doesn't have a clean sweep in this category because I'll personally never let the Malcolm Butler decision go. Ever. But I don't want to talk about that in this thread.

Lastly, @patfanken is one of the best people we've ever had on here. So, mocking him is absolutely unnecessary. You're bashing him over things he said over the course of a handful of seasons. He's been here for 20+ years, has played and coached the game, and will forget more than most of us know. And he's been far more right than he's ever been wrong.

At the end of the day, who cares? I'm cool if I'm wrong, just like I feel like most of us and you guys are. Just because someone gives me a hard time doesn't mean I'm going to throw it back in anyone's face, and I'm referring to all the other posts in this thread. It can all change in a second...it is what it is.

Nothing good is going to come from it, other than personal satisfaction. Aside from that, I don't see the benefit.

You guys are all better than this. Let's let it go and move on.

2:49am? Don't let these guys let you lose sleep.

 

[Guts]

2:49am? Don't let these guys let you lose sleep.

Sleep is for the weak

 

[Steve102]

Sleep is for the weak

I was gonna give you some witty retort, but I got nothing.

 

[upstater1]

We didn’t just lose Brady. I’m tired of typing all the names we’ve lost since 2019. It takes time to build a team. Seattle went through more years of mediocrity than we have.

Jim Harbaugh and the Ravens have won 1 playoff game in the last .....

9 years!!!!

 

[ahmed]

I think he's also been frustrated with some of the unbalanced discussions during what's obviously been a tough season. I get it, they're 2-9 and a mess, but it's tough to try and reasonably discuss some issues without the repeated interjections on some of the topics that have been discussed ad nauseam on here. Although, at the same time, it's tough to find much to be positive about, which only exacerbates the problem.

I mean, they've lost four straight and are now heading into a stretch with plenty of uncertainty. Hopefully, they'll at least figure some things out and build some sort of positive momentum heading into the offseason.

Ian - do you have a well of positivity you tap into or something?