PostGame Thread 2023 Week 8: Patriots fall 31-17 to the Dolphins

[sb1]

Brown did him no favors yesterday. Makes you wonder.
I think the team needs to consider drafting a left tackle with their top 10 or hopefully top 5 pick.

Are there any franchise LT's to be had?

I'm ok with picking one if there are. The Greatest Show on Turf got started by the Rams picking Orlando Pace first overall. It starts there.

 

[Thelonious]

The big issue is that we can't even discuss all the facets of what's going on with this team because some people are hellbent on ignoring them so they can blame everything on one guy. The line is demonstrably one of the worst units in the NFL. We can't talk about that because someone will just say "well if someone besides Mac was there, it would magically look good". The running backs legitimately don't get production. The same people will ignore that and say "well that's because they don't respect Mac". Mac isn't the reason guys are getting through on a double team block. Mac isn't the reason Stevenson has looked like crap this year. You can look at the receivers and their low seperation rate. We can't talk about that though because the one or two times they do get seperation, Mac might miss them or be getting pressured. People will pick on the one or two plays they perceive Mac ****ed up, but they'll use that to ignore the receivers dropping balls they shouldn't or not getting open or the line collapsing immediately. Mac in the same game has gotten criticized when they line collapsed for both trying to make a throw and also taking a sack on different plays. Like that's just nonsense.

He's not a good QB right now, but this offense is not good on any level and replacing Mac isn't making this an acceptable NFL offense. Tua had problems in this game to and showed a lot of the same tendencies as Mac. He just had weapons that would make something out of nothing for him.

And all of that doesn't absolve the defense of their horrible efforts yesterday. They legitimately got burned on key plays all day, could not get a 4th down stop, and were generally getting pantsed.

And the special teams is a bad unit as well and nobody ever wants to discuss that.

That's as solid an explication of the situation as I've seen here, IMHO. I actually don't think there's a lot of mystery here. For understandable emotional reasons, we keep adverting to distracting side issues- the latest being all the silly brouhaha over what sort of haul we might get at the trade deadline: the answer is likely "none," rightly enough. There are maybe four players we need to keep as part of a rebuild, and the rest aren't worth a damn to anybody. The problem is that we have a lousy roster built by a lousy GM who must be fired as such. And we have a HC who bears watching, who is showing clear signs of being past it in that role as well.

PS: Re the trade deadline, I don't mind some trading, but the criterion must be, "Will this person help us next year and years following. That ought to be the criterion for EVERY decision going forward. Taking on players/making moves to help us out this year is a waste of time. Ive been saying that for a month.

 

[PatsFan2]

he had enough time to make these throws, watch the replay, he had easily enough time to hit parker for a first down.

Dude don't argue with BB and Mac apologists it's a waste of Time.

 

[festy1986]

What's so difficult to understand about what I wrote?

I wrote the Bills are not a powerhouse offense.

I mean. They have been. The two times a year we've played them as indicated by what I wrote. But I guess that's difficult to understand when you're only worried about the last 6 weeks.

 

[upstater1]

I mean. They have been. The two times a year we've played them as indicated by what I wrote. But I guess that's difficult to understand when you're only worried about the last 6 weeks.

Ugh.

All they talk about in Buffalo is their totally anemic offense. Teams change from year to year. You're talking about something they were doing back in 2021 when Daboll was their coach.

This is not the same offense.

But besides all that, I never said the Patriots were as good as the Bills.

 

[Steve102]

 

[Thelonious]

Gresh is tying himself in knots trying to pretend Belichick doesn't blow. I'm surprised he's turned out to be such a namby-pamby company shill. Fauria has spent the last hour trying to figure out how to operate his new ballpoint. No luck to this point. He may have to go back to his crayons.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bob needs to make the silver pants permanent for the blue jerseys. How much better did those uniforms look yesterday with that combo?

 

[lancerman]

Dude don't argue with BB and Mac apologists it's a waste of Time.

Still not able to tell the difference between realizing Mac isn't the main problem with thinking he's good I see.

 

[aluminum seats]

It's the talent. I was in denial for a long time thinking the same as you have. But it's talent be it at QB or WR. Tua is putting up numbers because of who he has around him he's not a ALL PRO on his own just like Mac isn't. I'm just curious to see if the team decided to put some real pieces around Mac what would he be.

I look at that Hurts was almost traded prior to getting AJ.
Tua was benched for Fitzpatrick for his play prior to getting his guys.

Look at what burrow was able to do to the 49ers yesterday with his guys he has.

We are devoid of talent at QB and WR

It's not denial so much as seeing how lousy most of the league is. I do agree that transcendent WR talent can cover a lot offensively too. I'm no big fan of Tua, and he is absolutely propped up by the weapons he has. Even good quarterbacks need a go-to guy, which is why Gronk was so important to Brady (and Edelman). So Belichick has to be aware of that.

But the overall roster is not nearly as bleak as Jones makes it appear (and the coaching, and the way the O-line has been)

Takeaway for me is that this team can compete sooner rather than later, but you need the QB (and the league is different now, the Penningtons of the world, who could have a bit of success back in the day, really can't now, defenses are too fast)

 

[Thelonious]

Bob needs to make the silver pants permanent for the blue jerseys. How much better did those uniforms look yesterday with that combo?

LOL. I'm thinking haberdashery may not be the team's big issue. But what the heck. Those deck chairs looked really fine as the Titanic slipped downward to oblivion.

 

[Thelonious]

It's not denial so much as seeing how lousy most of the league is. I do agree that transcendent WR talent can cover a lot offensively too. I'm no big fan of Tua, and he is absolutely propped up by the weapons he has. Even good quarterbacks need a go-to guy, which is why Gronk was so important to Brady (and Edelman). So Belichick has to be aware of that.

But the overall roster is not nearly as bleak as Jones makes it appear (and the coaching, and the way the O-line has been)

Takeaway for me is that this team can compete sooner rather than later, but you need the QB (and the league is different now, the Penningtons of the world, who could have a bit of success back in the day, really can't now, defenses are too fast)

I just think that's too simplistic and fails to face just how lousy the roster is. One my little regulatory self-admonitions is that if things seem simple, I've probably just lapsed into simplistic thinking. Ain't nuthin' simple is this world, as much as we wish there were.

 

[SVN]

i think people are overrreacting to the dolphins loss ..we always lose there even with brady. And now they have a better team .We competed and thats all we can ask for. The issue is the significant injuries yesterday which makes the upcoming supposedly winnable games harder now. Yes i am not talking anout tanking. its a meaningless exercise. Tell me what team as tanked and significantly improved next yr ?? We off load someone for a 4th round pick next is going to help us ? its not baseball.
We need to resign our good players with the 100M cap and get 1-2 key cogs and it wil improve faster than people think.

 

[Thelonious]

i think people are overrreacting to the dolphins loss ..we always lose there even with brady. And now they have a better team .We competed and thats all we can ask for. The issue is the significant injuries yesterday which makes the upcoming supposedly winnable games harder now. Yes i am not talking anout tanking. its a meaningless exercise. Tell me what team as tanked and significantly improved next yr ?? We off load someone for a 4th round pick next is going to help us ? its not baseball.
We need to resign our good players with the 100M cap and get 1-2 key cogs and it wil improve faster than people think.

We do indeed need to sign soon those few players, maybe three or four, who are not contractually secured and who can be expected to help us in years following. That will leave very little worth a damn in the trade market, so all this talk of the transformative powers of managing the trade deadline aright is silly.

All that said, your notion that we need only tittivate a roster which is readily fixable is sheer nonsense. Open your eyes.

The first step is to deal with a failed GM and a failing HC. Until we face this fact, we are just children dancing around in the firelight as the house burns down.

 

[Real fan 02]

The Pats are exactly what a majority of this board said they'd be this year. An above average defense with a below average offense. We just weren't ready for just how far below average the offense would be.

And to your point defensively just shows how superior a talent gonzo is compared to the other CBs on the roster.

It's not denial so much as seeing how lousy most of the league is. I do agree that transcendent WR talent can cover a lot offensively too. I'm no big fan of Tua, and he is absolutely propped up by the weapons he has. Even good quarterbacks need a go-to guy, which is why Gronk was so important to Brady (and Edelman). So Belichick has to be aware of that.

But the overall roster is not nearly as bleak as Jones makes it appear (and the coaching, and the way the O-line has been)

Takeaway for me is that this team can compete sooner rather than later, but you need the QB (and the league is different now, the Penningtons of the world, who could have a bit of success back in the day, really can't now, defenses are too fast)

Absolutely agree! Another thing I'm wondering is.. why are they still running the Brady offense. The GOAT has long since retired. I know that Charlie Weiss said that Mac was drafted becuase he had the same traits and characteristics of Brady. Maybe he does Maybe he doesn't. It's just apparent that Mac needs a fresh start. Everything that's transpired particularly last season and this.. it just feels like it'll be best for Mac and the organization to part ways. But you know what. Ownership won't singularly becuase of his peanuts contract. Per the CBA a vested veteran would command at least 5 million for a contract. So they'd rather stick with Mac. I cannot come up with anything else as to what they would want to keep him at this point.

Everything that could possibly happen to a NFL team to derail a season has happened this season. This team is decimated by injury, inconsistent play.

 

[archstanton543]

i think people are overrreacting to the dolphins loss ..we always lose there even with brady. And now they have a better team .We competed and thats all we can ask for. The issue is the significant injuries yesterday which makes the upcoming supposedly winnable games harder now. Yes i am not talking anout tanking. its a meaningless exercise. Tell me what team as tanked and significantly improved next yr ?? We off load someone for a 4th round pick next is going to help us ? its not baseball.
We need to resign our good players with the 100M cap and get 1-2 key cogs and it wil improve faster than people think.

This team is not one or two players away.

 

[Real fan 02]

This team is not one or two players away.

They are dam near a whole roster away from becoming a contender.

 

[aluminum seats]

I just think that's too simplistic and fails to face just how lousy the roster is. One my little regulatory self-admonitions is that if things seem simple, I've probably just lapsed into simplistic thinking. Ain't nuthin' simple is this world, as much as we wish there were.

I don't think either view is more or less simple than the other, apart from the idea that if you don't have the QB, you probably won't win. That part is pretty simple

 

[Thelonious]

I don't think either view is more or less simple than the other, apart from the idea that if you don't have the QB, you probably won't win. That part is pretty simple

That's a fair point. I only object where people (as they often or typically do) settle on one aspect of the problem, then decline to think any further to the other causes, affording them no legitimate basis whatever for presuming, as they typically do, that the aspect of the problem they happens to have settled on is the only or major problem. Ultimately, of course, any analysis must be made "simple" as a basis for action: implementing multiple solutions inevitably creates such confusion that progress is rarely made. The goal is to identify the discrete problems, identify solutions, prioritize. and act, beginning with whatever aspects are most urgent or concerning which there is opportunity to address it in the near term. In my mind that first step - absolutely without question, it seems to me - is to address the abysmally poor GM work. Without a functioning GM, most of the other problems are unadressable anyway. I have laid out elsewhere - too many times in all likelihodd - my take on the Mac issue. To put it simply, though the qb problem is legitimate, it is not at all the first problem crying out for resolution, nor in any case is there presently available a meaningful opportunity to do resolve it.

 

[SVN]

This team is not one or two players away.

Thats not the point i am making. I am saying trading away dugger and uche and others isnt going to make us better next yr or two. Its better to sign some proven players then to get another 4th rounder for these just because we have to sell. Trading these players picks creates more holes which need to be filled. We dont have so much depth to trade these players.