QB School's Week 6 Mac Jones Analysis

[upstater1]

And this is the game all those Mac fans are saying he played well

I tend to think so many people look at stats.

Against the Jets, his stats sucked. But Mac actually played well in that game.

Miami and the Raiders games were big negatives for him, despite the stats

 

[upstater1]

The 3rd and 5 that Parker blew is something I talked about in the GDT. We've seen Brady throw that curl or hitch so many times to just move the chains. All Parker had to do was just run, wall his man, turn and catch because he's past the down marker, so there's no need to ********. We know this because Mac is in a 3 step drop which gives you no time to do anything else that just turn and catch.

Yet O'Sullivan thinks that's on Mac. Not on Parker. He pretty much explains why.

 

[upstater1]

Yeah, it's very rudimentary bread-and-butter Patriots offense. JT tries to give an explanation that Parker was playing it as if he was the 3rd or 4th option on the play, so was slow-playing it on purpose to buy time... but that smells like total ******** to me. That's not Patriots football. I think Parker was either just playing slow or screwed up and forgot his route.

O'Sullivan was basing it on the other routes. He even showed where one of the routes would've been a TD as Bourne got leverage to the inside and safety bit on the short route. That's where the ball should have gone.

 

[upstater1]

It’s a combination of being afraid to turn it over but also being deathly afraid of pressure and getting skittish and his fundamentals going to **** as soon as he gets the slightest whiff of a defensive player within 5 feet of him. He was definitely a lot better with both of these things in the first couple games, but in the Dallas game it all unraveled and he’s been mostly a disaster since then. If he could get back to his Philly form, he might be salvageable, but I don’t have much hope there.

I started a new thread after the Miami game pointing out that during the game, Mac was doing all the things you list here repeatedly. So it was already evident in the Miami game that he was headed down a very bad road.

The next week I complimented his game against the Jets because he actually stepped into the pocket and made crucial completions at crucial moments.

 

[SteveBsFan]

Thought I'd start a thread on this one. I enjoy watching these and this one was pretty useful since the Raiders game was the first game in a while where Mac wasn't getting hit constantly so there was better analysis to be done. My initial takeaway here is that the play design is honestly not that bad at times (it could be better). There are big plays waiting to happen, though, if the reads are actually made correctly and if the ball is thrown with accuracy...

The analysis on the bad INT he threw is so bad, especially because there were multiple guys open immediately after the snap, pick up the first down, in the red zone... There was just no reason to go running trying to "extend the play"... Brutal. It's damning for Mac IMO.

This video and the one he did against the Cowboys makes me think Bill actually did try to set Mac up to succeed despite all the fans saying otherwise.

Bill knew Mac was never a deep threat qb. I think from the moment he drafted him, he was going to take a Brady approach and start slow allowing Mac to develop through the years.

He basically decided to go heavy short pass, focus on running the ball, play action, and lean into the side of the field where 1 single player isn’t as critical as QB is and that’s on defense.

(Yes Judon and such are stars and game changers but you can still win when they’re out. Going from a Brady to Hoyer destroys an offense)

So, he went out and got a few receivers and two good TE while having Harris and Stevenson to pound the ball. Worked great at first, but Mac started to regress toward the end of his rookie season.

Why he decided to go with Matt for OC remains a mystery. Perhaps he thought his defensive focused mind could translate to a slug it out offense. But again, I don’t have a real excuses for Matt. I think Bill would even privately admit that was a bad move.

Anyway, Mac and Jonnu never click so he dumps him for Gesicki to keep the heavy TE formula. Why “trade” Meyers for Juju is a mystery as well we will likely never know the truth behind.

However, he brings in a former Alabama coach who was also good with 2 TE sets. The offensive line on paper was decent. Brown is typically solid, and Strange, Andrews, and Onwenu are a formidable inside line. RT was spotty and that’s on Bill.

Obviously injuries to the line made it impossible to play the ideal setup which has just cascaded into what we see on film right now. Mac “hears ghosts” any time defenders push his line back a bit and completely loses focus.

People compare what Buffalo and Miami did but Mac is just not those guys. He has certain strengths and the deep ball isn’t one of them. Going with Zeke over DHop makes more sense if his plan was the short attack.

And you know, what we saw in the final two drives against Vegas is what the offense was built to do. Long time consuming drives living off 4-5 yards a play. The problem in that game obvious was the final drive being a bit TOO long, but point is that was a preview of what I believe he envisioned when he built this roster.

So yea, I don’t believe Bill set Mac up to fail. I actually think he set him up to succeed but the combo of line injuries and Mac’s fear of being hit (and defensive injuries) sank the season.

Just my 2c

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yet O'Sullivan thinks that's on Mac. Not on Parker. He pretty much explains why.

I thought it was on Parker too. Is Mac that bad that he looks initially at his 4th read like O'Sullivan said? That set of comments by O'Sullivan seemed curious.

 

[Uptown]

 

[PatsFan2]

Yup I thought he would show that play too. What is amazing is that Mac can not see the crossing routes over the middle that are in front of him. Makes no sense.

Because he's not going through his progressions he throws the football to his first read. That can make his stats look good or decent but more times that not he misses on chunk plays. On that lucky drive that took almost three years to score I aged watching that series alone. It's been stated Mac is scared of throwing picks which severely limits his game. The Defense wants you to take three years to score especially when your two scores down and have One NFL Come Back in Three years. Yeah the Defense love their chances against Mac Jones in scenario.

 

[lancerman]

It's safe to say that Mac was not, is not, and will never be a top 10 QB.

Whether he's good enough to be middle of the pack, we'll yeah that’s harder to tell but looking at the film review, it doesn't seem so.

Honestly, it's hard not to compare him to Brady. His throws and movement in the pocket are such a downgrade.

1. You can't compare anyone to Brady. Brady is elite at most aspects and the best ever in many. We aren't finding another Tom Brady.

2. Brady really was never on a team this bad so it's hard to make a comparison. The two worst offenses he was ever on were the 2019 Pats and the 2022 Bucaneers. On one team he looked miserable all year and people called him washed. On the other his offense was constantly injured and he had his first losing record and retired. They were both better than the 2023 Patriots offense.

 

[PatsFan2]

It's safe to say that Mac was not, is not, and will never be a top 10 QB.

Whether he's good enough to be middle of the pack, we'll yeah that’s harder to tell but looking at the film review, it doesn't seem so.

Honestly, it's hard not to compare him to Brady. His throws and movement in the pocket are such a downgrade.

Nice post in the case of the BB Patriots QB situation he went from First Brady to Worse Mac Jones.

 

[PatsFan2]

1. You can't compare anyone to Brady. Brady is elite at most aspects and the best ever in many. We aren't finding another Tom Brady.

2. Brady really was never on a team this bad so it's hard to make a comparison. The two worst offenses he was ever on were the 2019 Pats and the 2022 Bucaneers. On one team he looked miserable all year and people called him washed. On the other his offense was constantly injured and he had his first losing record and retired. They were both better than the 2023 Patriots offense.

Not that I hope because it will happen the Bills and Dolphins are going tear us a new one and BB deserves it. How dare him go into this 2023 season thinking we were going to win Football Games 6-3 because we have a good Defense...but almost completely neglects the Offense which is devoid of talent. The Game have definitely passed BB by on Offense he hasn't helped Mac Jones at all Take those GM keys away.

 

[Ross12]

Yup I thought he would show that play too. What is amazing is that Mac can not see the crossing routes over the middle that are in front of him. Makes no sense.

Yeah this is the big issue. Mac SHOULD be making a living off hitting middle of field throws but he is so often not even seeing them when they’re wide open. I am getting the sense that when he looks at the middle of the field, his eyes are wandering down towards the oncoming pass rush instead of the receivers, even when they’re not even a threat. As opposed to the sideline throws where he has to look at more of an angle, and pass rushers coming from the sides might be looping around out of sight.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I thought it was on Parker too. Is Mac that bad that he looks initially at his 4th read like O'Sullivan said? That set of comments by O'Sullivan seemed curious.

Well O’Sullivan point is that based on the other routes the Parker one should have been 4th in the progression and that Mac basically panicked and didn’t read the progression correctly and went straight at it with his 1st read which was the wrong thing to do. And if Mac read the progression correctly he would have had a TD throw to Bourne.

 

[upstater1]

I thought it was on Parker too. Is Mac that bad that he looks initially at his 4th read like O'Sullivan said? That set of comments by O'Sullivan seemed curious.

Yes. That's indeed hard to believe.
But you can also say the same of Parker. Is Parker that bad that he fakes a give up route before breaking inside?

 

[Ivan]

For a brief but not insignificant span of time last year, for a variety of reasons which you and I and everybody else is sick of talking about, Zappe did indeed outplay Mac, Because of this, I felt that Zappe had earned the right to genuine consideration as starter if matters evolved to a point where that seemed reasonable. To that extent, and to that extent only, as I said at the time, there should be "qb competition." The inanely protracted discussion over whether such a "competition" should be established, a discussion in which no one at any time defined what a "qb competition" is (which would immediately and to everyone's relief have ended the palaver), has thankfully abated. I also said at the time that I was pretty sure that it would be a competition Mac would win. To some extent, in that Zappe has been given reps in practice and in preseason, Zappe has had his look, andhas shown himself not to be up to snuff. So be it.

At this point, it really isn't very important on which side of the late and unlamented kerfuffle one found oneself. We should all just be a little embarrassed that we had such a discussion in the first place, and very grateful that the damned thing is over.

Disagree with this. You may need a great receiving corps to put up 30 + on a weekly basis, or even to be a serious contender these days, but you don’t need it to simply move the chains, and Jones isn’t even capable of doing that on a regular basis. The most basic things he absolutely has to do, like not making really stupid throws, move the chains, and show some ability to extend plays positively, he simply isn’t showing the ability to do, and that’s why I have given up on him. I had an open mind on him showing he could become a serviceable QB that could improve his game from there coming into this season, I figured he deserved that chance after last year’s debacle, but he hasn’t shown anything at all this season, other than that he can suck with the best of them. As far as I’m concerned the experiment is over and done with, sit him down, or trade him to Vegas for Garrapolo, end of story, at least in New England.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Well O’Sullivan point is that based on the other routes the Parker one should have been 4th in the progression and that Mac basically panicked and didn’t read the progression correctly and went straight at it with his 1st read which was the wrong thing to do. And if Mac read the progression correctly he would have had a TD throw to Bourne.

Yes. That's indeed hard to believe.
But you can also say the same of Parker. Is Parker that bad that he fakes a give up route before breaking inside?

I find it hard to believe that Mac panicked that much. Didn't know the play? Mac is supposed to be a smart QB. Parker does runs some awful routes. The whole thing seems absurd. I am not sure what to think.

 

[Thelonious]

Disagree with this. You may need a great receiving corps to put up 30 + on a weekly basis, or even to be a serious contender these days, but you don’t need it to simply move the chains, and Jones isn’t even capable of doing that on a regular basis. The most basic things he absolutely has to do, like not making really stupid throws, move the chains, and show some ability to extend plays positively, he simply isn’t showing the ability to do, and that’s why I have given up on him. I had an open mind on him showing he could become a serviceable QB that could improve his game from there coming into this season, I figured he deserved that chance after last year’s debacle, but he hasn’t shown anything at all this season, other than that he can suck with the best of them. As far as I’m concerned the experiment is over and done with, sit him down, or trade him to Vegas for Garrapolo, end of story, at least in New England.

I hear you. It may well be that if I weren't so pissed over Bill's jackassery in neglecting to giving Mac a legit chance at developing, I'd have the objectivity to see more clearly that Mac's insurmountable limitations are fatal to his shot at being an NFL starter. In fact, if I am honest, I suspect he may well never achieve that status. It costs us nothing, really, though, given where we are this season, to give him the rest of the season or at least a large portion to show what he might do or (maybe) to enhance his trade value. It's not as if anybody else on the roster is ready to give it a go, and to waste resources on some "veteran" castoff to see us through the rest of this lost season seems a waste of money, possibly of draft capital. I guess I just feel the team owes him an extended opportunity and that that is a gesture we can afford. It is also possible that we may have to use him as a bridge to a better alternative, depending on how matters develop re draft postion, etc.

 

[Thelonious]

It's safe to say that Mac was not, is not, and will never be a top 10 QB.

Whether he's good enough to be middle of the pack, we'll yeah that’s harder to tell but looking at the film review, it doesn't seem so.

Honestly, it's hard not to compare him to Brady. His throws and movement in the pocket are such a downgrade.

No doubt. Every so often, for example, I'll think, "Well, Tom improved his arm strength markedly over his career." Then I remember that in yhis, as in so many other things, Tom was extraordinary. Tom's a ghost who haunts our thoughts and skews our objectivity when it comes to qb.s, no question.

 

[RIpats88]

Yeah this is the big issue. Mac SHOULD be making a living off hitting middle of field throws but he is so often not even seeing them when they’re wide open. I am getting the sense that when he looks at the middle of the field, his eyes are wandering down towards the oncoming pass rush instead of the receivers, even when they’re not even a threat. As opposed to the sideline throws where he has to look at more of an angle, and pass rushers coming from the sides might be looping around out of sight.

I think Mac is at the point where the OL/pass rush has ruined him and he's "seeing ghosts"

He's sped up. So even when there isn't pressure he's expecting it. So he's not going through his reads, not setting his form.

He never was going to be an elite QB. At best a game manager. Since McDaniels left they have been expecting him to make it work with subpar talent and OL

And the results are expectedly disastrous

 

[Ross12]

I find it hard to believe that Mac panicked that much. Didn't know the play? Mac is supposed to be a smart QB. Parker does runs some awful routes. The whole thing seems absurd. I am not sure what to think.

I think we know at this point that the "smart QB" tag is not accurate. Not trying to be mean, but it's just not there. He's making too many mistakes and missing too many things, and allowing himself to be manipulated not only by pressure, but by the mere idea that pressure might happen.

Bill expects his QB to adjust the protection based on the defense, change the play based on the coverage, get through his reads quickly, get through his reads in the correct order, and hit the open man with accuracy and anticipation. I don't think Mac is doing most of those things. Some of them, sometimes, sure, but most of it is not happening most of the time.