If this is Bill’s last season as HC, who do you want as a replacement?

[Real fan 02]

I thought it ran until the end of the 2024 season.

Ok thanks. I wonder if at the end of this season... well the end officially. If RK and JK decide they will part ways and allow BB to leave mutually?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bill knew the whole team was done by 2020 because everyone was leaving and we were going to take all the dead money and dump it into that year.

-Re-Signed aging veteran Devin McCourty to largest contract ever for a safety

-Re-Signed Matthew Slater

-Franchised Joe Thuney to keep him theough the 2020 season despite not wanting to pay for long term extension

-Refused to trade Stephon Gilmore while market was high in 2020

-Attempted to win with Cam Newton

Bill didn’t think they were done. Bill thought he could keep the band together minus Brady and continue to compete.

 

[upstater1]

-Re-Signed aging veteran Devin McCourty to largest contract ever for a safety

-Re-Signed Matthew Slater

-Franchised Joe Thuney to keep him theough the 2020 season despite not wanting to pay for long term extension

-Refused to trade Stephon Gilmore while market was high in 2020

-Attempted to win with Cam Newton

Bill didn’t think they were done. Bill thought he could keep the band together minus Brady and continue to compete.

Oh, so that's why he was uncharacteristically forthright with the media as he explained they were taking a hit for the buildup to 2018 and 2019?

He rewarded McCourty. Let Thuney go. Gilmore was injured so I'm not sure what point you're even making.

Cam Newton played for $1m.

You think that signaled an attempt to compete?

All the players from 2019 are gone except for Slater and Andrews, and Wise wasn't even a player back then.

Currently we have 54 players on the roster who weren't here when we drafted Mac Jones. That's since 2021 win.

Clearly, this team was losing its old stars (Gilmore, Hightower, Edelman, Gronk, James White, Thuney, etc.) In 2021, we all saw that McCourty had lost his speed and couldn't compete any more.

 

[rkarp1]

If Brady's attempt to join the Raiders ownership group falls apart, I think he would be a great addition to the Pats. Not as GM or coach, but in some type of advisory role and sounding board for RK and JK. If Brady is going to be involved with the NFL, it should be with the Pats.

Harbaugh-the Michigan job may be a better situation than the Pats job.
Mayo-would love to see him stay on as DC, but the team needs an offensive minded HC

 

[sb1]

Ok thanks. I wonder if at the end of this season... well the end officially. If RK and JK decide they will part ways and allow BB to leave mutually?

A home run of a draft this spring might mean the Pats contend for a title in a couple of years instead of being irrelevant for a long time. They can't let BB screw this draft up with his vanity projects or doing his friends a solid by picking their players. The team is approaching a crossroads and the decisions they have to make are too important to f-around. BB must be separated from his GM duties first and then they can take it from there.

 

[Grogan14]

Again, as a USC alumnus, good God, no. Dude has no idea how to coach defense.

That is why you keep Mayo. We need a head coach who will attract offensive talent

 

[Pats1971]

Oh, so that's why he was uncharacteristically forthright with the media as he explained they were taking a hit for the buildup to 2018 and 2019?

He rewarded McCourty. Let Thuney go. Gilmore was injured so I'm not sure what point you're even making.

Cam Newton played for $1m.

You think that signaled an attempt to compete?

All the players from 2019 are gone except for Slater and Andrews, and Wise wasn't even a player back then.

Currently we have 54 players on the roster who weren't here when we drafted Mac Jones. That's since 2021 win.

Clearly, this team was losing its old stars (Gilmore, Hightower, Edelman, Gronk, James White, Thuney, etc.) In 2021, we all saw that McCourty had lost his speed and couldn't compete any more.

The Patriots lost players several times over the last 20 years. Was any player minus Brady from the 01 team still on the 2012 team? So you are saying for 20 years despite losing players multiple times over those years, now all of the sudden he decided he couldnt compete anymore?

 

[Pats1971]

A home run of a draft this spring might mean the Pats contend for a title in a couple of years instead of being irrelevant for a long time. They can't let BB screw this draft up with his vanity projects or doing his friends a solid by picking their players. The team is approaching a crossroads and the decisions they have to make are too important to f-around. BB must be separated from his GM duties first and then they can take it from there.

There is nothing they could get in this draft short of a revolutionary Qb that could help them compete for a title in a couple of years.

 

[203Pat]

-Re-Signed aging veteran Devin McCourty to largest contract ever for a safety

-Re-Signed Matthew Slater

-Franchised Joe Thuney to keep him theough the 2020 season despite not wanting to pay for long term extension

-Refused to trade Stephon Gilmore while market was high in 2020

-Attempted to win with Cam Newton

Bill didn’t think they were done. Bill thought he could keep the band together minus Brady and continue to compete.

That season really made me think of that anonymous "We don't need Brady we can win with any QB" quote that was floating around 5 or so years ago.

 

[sb1]

There is nothing they could get in this draft short of a revolutionary Qb that could help them compete for a title in a couple of years.

Hopefully the QB's at the top of this draft are for real and we have someone picking the groceries who understands what kind of offense it takes to compete and win in the league these days.

 

[amfootball]

Oh, so that's why he was uncharacteristically forthright with the media as he explained they were taking a hit for the buildup to 2018 and 2019?

He rewarded McCourty. Let Thuney go. Gilmore was injured so I'm not sure what point you're even making.

Cam Newton played for $1m.

You think that signaled an attempt to compete?

All the players from 2019 are gone except for Slater and Andrews, and Wise wasn't even a player back then.

Currently we have 54 players on the roster who weren't here when we drafted Mac Jones. That's since 2021 win.

Clearly, this team was losing its old stars (Gilmore, Hightower, Edelman, Gronk, James White, Thuney, etc.) In 2021, we all saw that McCourty had lost his speed and couldn't compete any more.

It was not a rebuild by any means. All the moves Bill made was to keep competing in 2020 not reset and sell off assets and do a full rebuild. We are paying for that now ...

 

[203Pat]

It was not a rebuild by any means. All the moves Bill made was to keep competing in 2020 not reset and sell off assets and do a full rebuild. We are paying for that now ...

This has been my issue and why I always got pushback when I talked about that wins record meaning too much to Bill. I always got the "How is winning games a bad thing?" in 2020. We were winning meaningless games with veterans that wouldn't be part of the team in a year or two just to go 7-9 instead of 3-13 and improve our draft stock. Even if Mac was the guy they truly liked in 2021 trade back and stockpile a few picks. Mac would still suck but at least we would have had more ammunition to move around the draft board in the following years.

 

[upstater1]

It was not a rebuild by any means. All the moves Bill made was to keep competing in 2020 not reset and sell off assets and do a full rebuild. We are paying for that now ...

Belichick couldn't be clearer when he highlighted in a press conference that the team was taking all the dead money and putting it into that year. He was forthright when he said the team was in a rebuild. Cam Newton for heaven's sake was the QB, and he was not a very good one. You thought we should do what?

And you say this when there's 1 starter left from then? And a special teamer? How isn't it a rebuild when everyone is gone?

What assets did we have in 2020?

Look, you can't criticize Belichick for not keeping Thuney and at the same time criticize him for not getting rid of him. You can't have it both ways.

We could use Thuney right now. He was young. We let him go because of 2 reasons: the salary cap issues and we signed Shaq Mason.

What other assets are you referring to? Gilmore was not an asset, he was injured. Edelman was on shredded knees. Hightower knee problems as well. McCourty old.

Who were these assets?

We went 6-10. That's a poor record. This signals that we bit the bullet that season.

We ended up with a top half of the 1st round draft picks, the first one in a decade and a half.

 

[Joey007]

If Brady's attempt to join the Raiders ownership group falls apart, I think he would be a great addition to the Pats. Not as GM or coach, but in some type of advisory role and sounding board for RK and JK. If Brady is going to be involved with the NFL, it should be with the Pats.

Harbaugh-the Michigan job may be a better situation than the Pats job.
Mayo-would love to see him stay on as DC, but the team needs an offensive minded HC

1. Agreed. I think Brady would actually be very willing to come back if Bill is gone, to avoid a power struggle there.

2. I think our position is much more appealing if we are in a position to land Caleb Williams to go along with 100 million in cap space. That's a very enticing situation. But otherwise, I agree.

3. The caveat with Mayo is if he can set things up the way Demeco Ryans has in Houston. Look at how explosive their offense looks right now, despite having a defensive minded HC. Find the right assistant to run your offense and let him take the reins. I'm for a Mayo hire if he delegates out the offensive coaching and personnel decisions. I think he would be very willing.

 

[upstater1]

The Patriots lost players several times over the last 20 years. Was any player minus Brady from the 01 team still on the 2012 team? So you are saying for 20 years despite losing players multiple times over those years, now all of the sudden he decided he couldnt compete anymore?

By multiple times, you mean once, in that 2009-2011 period. Brady was at his best in those years (2012 in fact!). And yes, we had carryovers as well of Wilfork, Ninkovich, Mayo, Welker and the entire OL except for Kaczur.

Every team in the NFL cycles, the fact that we didn't dip below 10-6 in the last rebuild is a testament to the carryovers and Brady. But the idea that the same thing would happen if Brady had stayed, it's too much when you look at the roster. Would Brady have gotten us to 11 wins and a first round exit (just like 2019)? Do you really think Brady wins us that Bills playoff game in Buffalo?

 

[upstater1]

This has been my issue and why I always got pushback when I talked about that wins record meaning too much to Bill. I always got the "How is winning games a bad thing?" in 2020. We were winning meaningless games with veterans that wouldn't be part of the team in a year or two just to go 7-9 instead of 3-13 and improve our draft stock. Even if Mac was the guy they truly liked in 2021 trade back and stockpile a few picks. Mac would still suck but at least we would have had more ammunition to move around the draft board in the following years.

If we went 3-13, that would have given us an opportunity to take Zach Wilson or Trey Lance.

 

[203Pat]

??

And you say this when there's 1 starter left from then? And a special teamer? How isn't it a rebuild when everyone is gone?

What assets did we have in 2020?

Look, you can't criticize Belichick for not keeping Thuney and at the same time criticize him for not getting rid of him. You can't have it both ways.

We could use Thuney right now. He was young. We let him go because of 2 reasons: the salary cap issues and we signed Shaq Mason.

What other assets are you referring to? Gilmore was not an asset, he was injured. Edelman was on shredded knees. Hightower knee problems as well. McCourty old.

Who were these assets?

We went 6-10. That's a poor record. This signals that we bit the bullet that season.

We ended up with a top half of the 1st round draft picks, the first one in a decade and a half.

Gilmore played most of 2020 until late in the year. Bill should've traded him at the deadline that season and maximized his value while he could have gotten a second, maybe even first round pick. Instead Bill kept him, he got hurt, and was traded the next season for a bag of beans. Thuney cost us a third round comp pick for 2021. They also went 7-9 not 6-10.

 

[203Pat]

If we went 3-13, that would have given us an opportunity to take Zach Wilson or Trey Lance.

Like I said, maybe Mac really was their guy and they trade back 5-10 spots and get Mac and a first round pick in 2022. Mac would still be Mac but they would have had an extra first round pick for rebuild 2.0.

 

[upstater1]

Gilmore played most of 2020 until late in the year. Bill should've traded him at the deadline that season and maximized his value while he could have gotten a second, maybe even first round pick. Instead Bill kept him, he got hurt, and was traded the next season for a bag of beans. Thuney cost us a third round comp pick for 2021. They also went 7-9 not 6-10.

It really is irrelevant what their record was since we picked Mac Jones, the guy we were always going to pick.

So you want to keep Thuney or trade him?

Thuney is still playing at a very high level. Personally I always want to keep my All_Pros or Pro Bowlers entering their 2nd contracts. That's the meat of their career right there. Keeping him during a 3 year rebuild means he's still performing when you're into performance mode out of the rebuild.

 

[Thelonious]

I don't know whom I want. What sort of hiring process would it be if you were to decide before that process had transpired whom you were going to hire, or preload the process in favor of certain candidates? Is that "due diligence"? Nope.

It is not even known yet who is available or who will be around the time of the hire. Gresh is always whining (I could stop right there) that fans who want Bill to go or to reduce his role ought to shut up because they don't know who would replace him. Typical horseshit from a guy who is incapable of uttering an opinion without framing it as an insult to the "dumb fans." No wonder he can't keep a job more than a couple years. No, Gresh, we do not yet know whom, after an appropriate process, we will hire, nor should we.

I understand Mayo is sitting there as some sort of presumptive first option. I think the process should take no cognizance of this status and should build a legit process which begins with a set of criteria for the hire, rather than a process that handicaps alternatives from the start. Mayo is a fine fellow, but he's not an offensive coach, he has no demonstrated skills as a HC, and I frankly doubt he has the dynamism for the job, to be honest. The expression "damp rag" comes to mind.