Mac and the "It Factor"

[patsfanfromoversea]

Yawn, stop twisting my words. Give me proof beyond One play that receiver are running bad routes this season. You were all giddy you found one play with receivers running into each other to rub it in my face that you didn’t take into effect it could just be a rookie screwing up his route. Someone put that Curran said that was the case. Now you still have to be right and refuse to accept that possibility.

No I accepted Ian‘s explanation, it made sense, I just linked you because we talked about they play designs/ WR issues last year.

And my concerns with Troy Brown go back to 2020 when McDaniels was here and watching receivers run run routes and allowing defenders reroute the receiver rather than receivers setting up natural picks. He is a constant variable. And I have seen consistent issues with fundamentals with the receivers.

I have said that last year and in this thread as well, troy brown was the wr coach under those 3 OC and the wr had issues with rr separation etc.
What I wanted to point out is that you can not blame it all on the players, our offense coaching seems bad

 

[Triumph]

The media is still saying they same thing they've been saying the last 3 years and that is the Pats skill players are among the worst in the NFL. Now they're adding the OL is among the worst.

With that said, Mac has not shown any upside in that he's a skill player/better OL away from taking it to the next level. His footwork, pocket presence, arm strength, anticipation, decision making and release are all pretty bad. Then you have him running full steam for the first down marker, only to get trucked by a DB short of the sticks. He's looking like he's a back up at best.

That is the consensus inside Gillete.

For 3 years I have watched Corky Mac roll outside the pocket and throw the ball directly into the LBs hands for him to drop it. We saw it again in Dallas.

 

[mike_usagisan]

This is what happens when you build a team around mercenaries, as they did in 2021.

I'm genuinely confused by what you're saying, so if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. You mean mercenaries in the sense that they get paid but their heart isn't in it, not that the team was built with a bunch of free agents. I read the second part in your statement (and I think a lot of others did too) which doesn't make a whole lot of sense since most teams are built with free agents now.

 

[203Pat]

Was that the problem with the 2007 team?

To me a mercenary is someone willing to work for the highest bidder. Neither Moss nor Welker came here for big free agency contracts.

 

[mike_usagisan]

To me a mercenary is someone willing to work for the highest bidder. Neither Moss nor Welker came here for big free agency contracts.

Both were trades. Stallworth and Junior Seau were both free agents on that team. This is dumb. Everyone works for money and most will take the highest offer. It's called capitalism. That doesn't make everyone mercenaries.

 

[Rob0729]

Both were trades. Stallworth and Junior Seau were both free agents on that team. This is dumb. Everyone works for money and most will take the highest offer. It's called capitalism. That doesn't make everyone mercenaries.

Yeah, the player who will take far less to go to a contender are few and far between. Typically, if a player chooses to play for a contender over another team's offer that may be better, the difference is insignificant in the offers and/or it is a short term deal and the player is looking to which spot gives him the best chance to cash in on the next contract. Both most players go to where it will make them the most money.

 

[203Pat]

Both were trades. Stallworth and Junior Seau were both free agents on that team. This is dumb. Everyone works for money and most will take the highest offer. It's called capitalism. That doesn't make everyone mercenaries.

I think the original point was when you build a team through free agency where you offer multiple guys more money in order to sign them in an offseason you're just trying to throw money at a problem rather than fix it. That is almost the exact opposite of what happened here for years and with Brady in Tampa. Guys would take less money here/Tampa because they knew they had a shot at a ring. Those guys weren't mercenaries they were ring chasers. I think Chris Long said that he was told when he signed here that he wouldn't have the same role as he had with prior teams and that his numbers would reflect that and he said he wanted a chance to be a part of a Super Bowl team.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I think the original point was when you build a team through free agency where you offer multiple guys more money in order to sign them in an offseason you're just trying to throw money at a problem rather than fix it. That is almost the exact opposite of what happened here for years and with Brady in Tampa. Guys would take less money here/Tampa because they knew they had a shot at a ring. Those guys weren't mercenaries they were ring chasers. I think Chris Long said that he was told when he signed here that he wouldn't have the same role as he had with prior teams and that his numbers would reflect that and he said he wanted a chance to be a part of a Super Bowl team.

Still seems like a dumb distinction to me. Trying to splice between who went to try to win and who went because the money was better but they had less chance at winning is pointless to me. Hunter Henry is a stud and looks great. He came because we offered him the most money. Does that make him a mercenary or is he part of the solution to turning the team around?

 

[203Pat]

Still seems like a dumb distinction to me. Trying to splice between who went to try to win and who went because the money was better but they had less chance at winning is pointless to me. Hunter Henry is a stud and looks great. He came because we offered him the most money. Does that make him a mercenary or is he part of the solution to turning the team around?

I don't know how it is dumb? A mercenary and a ring chaser are two completely different things. One is willing to sacrifice money for team success and the other would rather play for a bad team if it offered the most money. That isn't to say the mercenary is a bad player just that winning may not be that players top priority.

As for Hunter Henry he has been a good player and would fall into the mercenary category. I don’t think he is part of turning this thing around. He will be 29 at the end of the season and a free agent and if anything this team turned around from promising to disappointing. Had Henry's top priority been winning a ring he would have tried to sign with the Bucs, Chiefs, Bills, etc for less money than he got offered here.

 

[Triumph]

Still seems like a dumb distinction to me. Trying to splice between who went to try to win and who went because the money was better but they had less chance at winning is pointless to me. Hunter Henry is a stud and looks great. He came because we offered him the most money. Does that make him a mercenary or is he part of the solution to turning the team around?

Hunter Henry is not part of the problem.

His only fault is not being able to throw the ball and catch it.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I don't know how it is dumb? A mercenary and a ring chaser are two completely different things. One is willing to sacrifice money for team success and the other would rather play for a bad team if it offered the most money. That isn't to say the mercenary is a bad player just that winning may not be that players top priority.

As for Hunter Henry he has been a good player and would fall into the mercenary category. I don’t think he is part of turning this thing around. He will be 29 at the end of the season and a free agent and if anything this team turned around from promising to disappointing. Had Henry's top priority been winning a ring he would have tried to sign with the Bucs, Chiefs, Bills, etc for less money than he got offered here.

Ok, maybe I just don't like the term. Pretty foul connotation to me.

 

[archstanton543]

Hunter Henry is not part of the problem.

His only fault is not being able to throw the ball and catch it.

Or block worth a damn.

 

[203Pat]

Ok, maybe I just don't like the term. Pretty foul connotation to me.

I agree it does seem to inherently sound negative but I don't fault any player for wanting to get paid as much as possible.

 

[Rob0729]

I think the original point was when you build a team through free agency where you offer multiple guys more money in order to sign them in an offseason you're just trying to throw money at a problem rather than fix it. That is almost the exact opposite of what happened here for years and with Brady in Tampa. Guys would take less money here/Tampa because they knew they had a shot at a ring. Those guys weren't mercenaries they were ring chasers. I think Chris Long said that he was told when he signed here that he wouldn't have the same role as he had with prior teams and that his numbers would reflect that and he said he wanted a chance to be a part of a Super Bowl team.

Do you really think that the players who signed with the Bucs in 2020 thought they were chasing a ring? Most of the league seemed to think Brady was on the decline. I can't remember anyone in the media predicting the Bucs would win a Super Bowl that year and several teams passed on signing Brady.

Yes, in 2021, there were players who stayed just in hopes to get another ring, but not in 2020.

 

[Toofy]

I checked Gardner minshew stats and it's eerily close to Mac with better rushing ability and more declutch wins.

I have been a Mac supporter , but this really rings a bell. When you can get Gardner minshew for 5 million a year, why spend 30 or 40 million on middling QB who needs playmakers. Better to invest that additional money in 2 -3 stud offensive weapons.

I am 100% sure after seeing Daniel Jones , Mac will not get his 5th year option picked up. I expect QB salaries to depress unless you take your team deeper to playoffs on consistent basis. There is going to be top 10 and all others are going to be second class QB citizens.tgwy might be lucky to get more than 20 million a year .

I see more minshews and zappe's playing in NFL.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I see more minshews and zappe's playing in NFL.

They play when the starter goes down, but they're not franchise QBs. I really hope we draft again and don't go the vet approach.

 

[Rob0729]

I checked Gardner minshew stats and it's eerily close to Mac with better rushing ability and more declutch wins.

I have been a Mac supporter , but this really rings a bell. When you can get Gardner minshew for 5 million a year, why spend 30 or 40 million on middling QB who needs playmakers. Better to invest that additional money in 2 -3 stud offensive weapons.

I am 100% sure after seeing Daniel Jones , Mac will not get his 5th year option picked up. I expect QB salaries to depress unless you take your team deeper to playoffs on consistent basis. There is going to be top 10 and all others are going to be second class QB citizens.tgwy might be lucky to get more than 20 million a year .

I see more minshews and zappe's playing in NFL.

Personally, I am at the point that I am less concerned who is at the QB position next year and more concerned that they are building the offense to become an offense that is suited for the 2020s.

But Daniel Jones is a case for giving Jones his fifth year. If the Giants gave Daniel Jones his fifth year option, they wouldn't be stuck with him after this year. I think how this year plays out will be the deciding factor on whether they do give him a fifth year option. But I think if they don't, they will have made the determination that they are moving on from him. If they are going to give him one more year to decide, they will pick up the fifth year.

 

[203Pat]

Do you really think that the players who signed with the Bucs in 2020 thought they were chasing a ring? Most of the league seemed to think Brady was on the decline. I can't remember anyone in the media predicting the Bucs would win a Super Bowl that year and several teams passed on signing Brady.

Yes, in 2021, there were players who stayed just in hopes to get another ring, but not in 2020.

Yes I fully believe those guys solely signed in Tampa to try and win a ring with Brady. I don’t think "most of the league" thought Brady was in decline. I think plenty wondered what would happen in a new organization with all the covid protocols but I don’t think people thought Brady was cooked. AB, Fournette, and Gronk all said they went to Tampa to play with Brady and all of them ended up scoring touchdowns in the Super Bowl.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes I fully believe those guys solely signed in Tampa to try and win a ring with Brady. I don’t think "most of the league" thought Brady was in decline. I think plenty wondered what would happen in a new organization with all the covid protocols but I don’t think people thought Brady was cooked. AB, Fournette, and Gronk all said they went to Tampa to play with Brady and all of them ended up scoring touchdowns in the Super Bowl.

I didn't say people thought Brady was cooked. Brady had a long decline to go to being cooked. But the general concession around the league was he wasn't the elite guy anymore. I will give you Gronk. Gronk only wanted to play with Brady. But AB was only given a shot on Tampa because of Brady. AB had no other option because he was toxic.

 

[203Pat]

I didn't say people thought Brady was cooked. Brady had a long decline to go to being cooked. But the general concession around the league was he wasn't the elite guy anymore. I will give you Gronk. Gronk only wanted to play with Brady. But AB was only given a shot on Tampa because of Brady. AB had no other option because he was toxic.

Either way AB was there and helped win Brady his 7th ring because of Brady. Those guys were ring chasing and all signed there because of Brady.