Dynasty Era Culture & Media schtick the one area I think Belichick firing would win.

[mike_usagisan]

The problem is that Bill has in his mind that elite receivers don't matter and he can make it work with smoke and mirrors.

I go back and forth on it, but I remember Bill spending plenty (at the time) for Jonnu Smith and Algohur. I don't think it's that Bill doesn't value elite receivers, it's just that none have been available in the last three or so years. The Hill trade was ridiculous compensation from a team that had multiple 1sts and the some say that Brown would have refused to come here with the Eagles in the mix. I'm hoping for Higgins to come available and us to use all that cap on him.

 

[RodThePat]

I think this formula would win regular season games. I don’t it would win playoff games

I agree. Which is a big part of the reason as to why I don't think Mac Jones should be a part of the team's future.

 

[1960Pats]

They should put Belichick's head on a pike at the outskirts of town, just to let the next coach know what happens when you win six eff'n Lombardi trophies but can't keep it going beyond a historic 20 year run.

Ridiculous.

Are you happy with the team right now or are you just going to pay Bill for what he did in the past? Or do you feel that 'what have you done lately' applies to players but not coaches?

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I go back and forth on it, but I remember Bill spending plenty (at the time) for Jonnu Smith and Algohur. I don't think it's that Bill doesn't value elite receivers, it's just that none have been available in the last three or so years. The Hill trade was ridiculous compensation from a team that had multiple 1sts and the some say that Brown would have refused to come here with the Eagles in the mix. I'm hoping for Higgins to come available and us to use all that cap on him.

I feel the same.

I think kinda plays money ball and would prefer to have 3 800 yds 10M receiver vs 1 1800yds 30M receiver.

 

[RIpats88]

Once again, the standard isn't "excelling". Can he be the 16th-20th best QB in football consistently? Because with this defense that would win a lot of games. And he hasn't played up to that level since the Tennessee game his rookie year.

But you aren't winning anything in today's NFL without elite receivers

Not to mention no run game even if you are 15th-20th. The whole system is rotten from the top down.

There's not a single thing they do well.

Stevenson averaging 2.1 ypc and our receivers have the worst separation rate in the NFL. It doesn't matter how good your defense is. You not going to win.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I feel the same.

I think kinda plays money ball and would prefer to have 3 800 yds 10M receiver vs 1 1800yds 30M receiver.

Yeah, and I think he refuses to pay twice in terms of a high draft pick and then a brand new contract. But I think that's the only way to get elite talent if you can't draft it, and we obviously can't draft it in terms of WRs. That's why I'm hopeful Higgins comes available in free agency.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Are you happy with the team right now or are you just going to pay Bill for what he did in the past? Or do you feel that 'what have you done lately' applies to players but not coaches?

It totally should. Honestly, Bill is a great coach but I feel that’s not enough anymore and it’s time for this team to have a new vision and a new voice in the locker room. But Kraft doesn’t have the courage to do it.

 

[RodThePat]

But you aren't winning anything in today's NFL without elite receivers

Not to mention no run game even if you are 15th-20th. The whole system is rotten from the top down.

There's not a single thing they do well.

Stevenson averaging 2.1 ypc and our receivers have the worst separation rate in the NFL. It doesn't matter how good your defense is. You not going to win.

They should get elite receivers and a better OL regardless of who's QB. That's a baseline area of improvement. I just wonder why you'd choose to give it to Mac Jones. I don't know what else we need to see. The limitations are obvious. He's not "owed" anything. Would he look better with those pieces? Sure. Would he make our offense as good as it could be with those pieces? I severely doubt it.

 

[RIpats88]

They should get elite receivers and a better OL regardless of who's QB. That's a baseline area of improvement. I just wonder why you'd choose to give it to Mac Jones. I don't know what else we need to see. The limitations are obvious. He's not "owed" anything. Would he look better with those pieces? Sure. Would he make our offense as good as it could be with those pieces? I severely doubt it.

I'm not giving it to Mac Jones. But I think discussion of a new QB is pointless without both of those 2 things.

This isn't a situation where you can see something we are doing well and the QB is just screwing it up. It's a situation where there is nothing they are doing well. And the 3rd year QB is trying to make something happen and is making mistakes

And Bill doesn't believe in elite receivers. If we keep the same roster because that's what Bill believes in and pick up any journeyman QB. I think we still look horrible.

It's easier on fans to sell themselves if you replace Mac Jones we are putting up 30 and winning a Superbowl. Rather than Bill built a garbage roster on offense that will take years to get out of.

 

[Pape]

I'd have to say that the folks who do give a rat's ass about Belichick's pressers are those people who are trying to make a living covering the team. And they do it for a fraction of what Bill makes. IMHO Bill's intelligent enough and been around long enough to figure out how to talk to the fans and media without giving anything away. He's so bad at it that I stopped watching and listening to him many years ago. As some fans here said a while back, and it's true, his act works well when the team's winning but it won't when they're losing. We're there now.

The folks I want to see pissed off are our opponents and I don't care who the HC is who does that. IMHO the perfect scenario would be for Bill to be the HC and for Kraft to hire a GM. And if that happens and Bill leaves, which is likely in that case, then we'll just have to find another HC. No matter how it all goes down it'll be interesting.

And we'll still have the greatest dynasty in NYFL history.

Yeah I just can't bring myself to care about the press conferences. If that's what people complain about, well, then what can I say besides do you really expect him to change how they are handled after 20 years? It's not really complaining, it's more like whining at this point...

As for pissing people off, eh, yeah it's going to happen no matter... schadenfreude for me when it's about inconsequential things...

As for your point about the dynasty, how right you are... made so sweet by never expecting this team to reach such lofty heights, glad I was there (50% of the time in person) to see 6 magnificent, beautiful, gleaming lombardis hoisted in the air...

 

[Lagaffe_07]

But you aren't winning anything in today's NFL without elite receivers

You aren’t really winning anything is today’s NFL without an elite QB. Elite receiver or not.

Bill is a defensive minded coach. I think you must have an elite QB with a defensive minded coach. He usually has invested more ressources in defensive players because it’s his forte.

If our HC was an offensive minded coach he would have invested more in the offense and we would be probably arguing that our defense is horrible.

 

[RIpats88]

You aren’t really winning anything is today’s NFL without an elite QB. Elite receiver or not.

Bill is a defensive minded coach. I think you must have an elite QB with a defensive minded coach. He usually has invested more ressources in defensive players because it’s his forte.

If our HC was an offensive minded coach he would have invested more in the offense and we would be probably arguing that our defense is horrible.

Plenty of teams would disagree with you. Tennessee, Detroit, Tampa bay, Giants...to name a few. All are winning. Unless you consider tannehill, Goff, Mayfield elite.

You act like elite QBs are just sitting out there. There are maybe what 2-3 actual elite QBs in the league?

Teams like the jets and bears been drafting for 50 years and never had an elite QB. We may never get one again. That's just reality

 

[1960Pats]

It totally should. Honestly, Bill is a great coach but I feel that’s not enough anymore and it’s time for this team to have a new vision and a new voice in the locker room. But Kraft doesn’t have the courage to do it.

Well, it is Kraft's team and I think you may be correct.

Yeah I just can't bring myself to care about the press conferences. If that's what people complain about, well, then what can I say besides do you really expect him to change how they are handled after 20 years? It's not really complaining, it's more like whining at this point...

As for pissing people off, eh, yeah it's going to happen no matter... schadenfreude for me when it's about inconsequential things...

As for your point about the dynasty, how right you are... made so sweet by never expecting this team to reach such lofty heights, glad I was there (50% of the time in person) to see 6 magnificent, beautiful, gleaming lombardis hoisted in the air...

Back in the beginning of the dynasty when they won their first SB they came out with 3 Games to Glory. At that time I joked that when they win the next SB will it be 3 Games to Glory II or 4 Games to Glory. Little did I know then how right I would be.

Also at the beginning when they'd be in the SB I'd watch the Pats videos in the week leading up to the game. But then they won so many that I needed more than a week to watch them all.

Just talking about those years puts a big grin on my face.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Plenty of teams would disagree with you. Tennessee, Detroit, Tampa bay, Giants...to name a few. All are winning. Unless you consider tannehill, Goff, Mayfield elite.

You act like elite QBs are just sitting out there. There are maybe what 2-3 actual elite QBs in the league?

Teams like the jets and bears been drafting for 50 years and never had an elite QB. We may never get one again. That's just reality

Define winning anything because none of those team have a shot at winning anything significant in the postseason. And the Giants are really winning a lot these days. You couldn’t find any example better than that?

so because it’s hard to find an elite QB you shouldn’t even try ? And we should settle for a guy with whom we have 0 shots at winning a SB elite receiver or not ?

After Sunday I don’t even think Miami as a shot at winning the SB and they have two of the best receiver in football and a better QB than Mac.

 

[Ring 6]

I would demand an answer. There is nothing to be negotiated: this is A or B. My only reason for caring about Bill's reasons for accepting the offer would be that that might offer some insight into what sort of employee he might be going forward. If the answer is no, I would want to move immediately on to how Bill would like the transition to be managed, whether he is transitioning to HC only, or to ex-employee. Bill's reasons for declining the offer would be his own, and I would have no interest in them, beyond their possible relvance to how the transition is to be handled. Bill is owed respect and consideration either way.

I understand, by the way, that this offer more likely than not will result in Bill's being removed from both positions. So it goes. It's a business. I would be happy to see him stay as HC.

Who are you going to find that is better than the best man to ever do it?

 

[Ring 6]

It totally should. Honestly, Bill is a great coach but I feel that’s not enough anymore and it’s time for this team to have a new vision and a new voice in the locker room. But Kraft doesn’t have the courage to do it.

Why?

 

[Steve102]

Are you happy with the team right now or are you just going to pay Bill for what he did in the past? Or do you feel that 'what have you done lately' applies to players but not coaches?

No I am not happy with how the team is performing. They just got handing an ass whoopin' the likes of which we have not seen since 1995.

Let's put this shoe on the other foot. Let's pretend that Kraft got rid of Bill after 2019 and kept Tom. Let's say that Tom's performance went from Brady-esque to more McMilfson. More picks than TD's, ranting and raving like crotchety old Dan Marino in his last years, and the team was not winning. Would you have run him out of town, *****ing and moaning how bad he sucked? No. You would have, metaphorically, put your arm around him and walked him off into the sunset, forever grateful for all he did for us. But since you all freakin' hate Bill, you can't rid of him fast enough.

But that's not the point of the OPs first post.

He hates how this "cringey" team is using Tedi's "awwwwe YEAH". God forbid they have traditions around here. God forbid they have heritage. Nope. Got their ass kicked in Dallas. Let's lock 'em out, and bring in a new 53 and a new staff. Start over, like there's never been a winning eff'n season in Foxboro. Tear down the banners, throw out the 6 trophies. Throw 'em right in the flippin' dumpster. Flatten the HoF and make more parking. Or another goddam restaurant. Bring a new coach in who kisses the media's ass. That oughta be fun.

You'll forgive me if I think y'all are a bunch of ungrateful spoiled effs.

You've been a fan since 1960? Then you know how bad it can get. We've seen the bottom, us old timers. This ain't it. Not yet anyway. The next guy could be Rod Rust 2.0.

I agree that Sunday sucked. Horrible. But I am willing to give the organization as a whole a bit of a break, because they have repaid my emotional and financial commitment a hundred times over, and they do not owe me ****. If they never win another Super Bowl as long as I live, that's ok, because for 20 years, they kicked ass and took names. All things must end, and the era of dominance is over.

To your point on how much Bill is paid, who gives a flip? It does not affect cap spending one goddam bit. But since we are mad at him, let's dock his pay. Take away his parking spot. Make him park over by Rodman Ford. Bastard need to get his steps in anyway, the old buzzard.

 

[Thelonious]

Who are you going to find that is better than the best man to ever do it?

Sorry, but certainly with respect to his GM responsibilities, he is no longer "that man," if he ever was. As for losing the coach, while I would like to see him stay on in that role for a while longer, I no longer regard him as "irreplacable" in that job either. The league has changed and in worrisome respects, Bill has not. In other equally worrisome ways, he has, for the worse.

 

[RIpats88]

Define winning anything because none of those team have a shot at winning anything significant in the postseason. And the Giants are really winning a lot these days. You couldn’t find any example better than that?

so because it’s hard to find an elite QB you shouldn’t even try ? And we should settle for a guy with whom we have 0 shots at winning a SB elite receiver or not ?

After Sunday I don’t even think Miami as a shot at winning the SB and they have two of the best receiver in football and a better QB than Mac.

never said you shouldn't keep looking. but if you blow it up everytime your qb isnt the guy you become the Jets. you keep drafting and try and remain competitive.

unless you want to watch a bottom 2-3 team forever. id rather watch a team like the dolphins who may not have a shot as you think. than a bottom team.

you/fans are acting entitled like what we did with brady is the norm. rather than an outlier.

 

[GaryfromTO]

They should put Belichick's head on a pike at the outskirts of town, just to let the next coach know what happens when you win six eff'n Lombardi trophies but can't keep it going beyond a historic 20 year run.

Ridiculous.

While I agree with the sentiment, and agree with you on BB's legacy with this team, as we all know in sports it's what have you done for me lately?
Belichick assembled this current roster and staff and he has to take ownership for what is currently happenning. We lived through an unpresidented era of success and expectations are now alot higher than in the pre-super bowl era of the Patriots.
The product and play we are seeing now is a total embarrasment and fans are frustrated.
To simply keep putting inferior talent on the field, and saying "we have to do better" after every loss keeps piling up just doesn't cut it.

Something has got to give and it may be time to move on from BB. I think that is what alot of people are saying.

It's not that we don't love and appreciate everything Belichick has acomplished with the Patriots, it's just we seem to be going backwards under him now.