Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[Ring 6]

Kraft offered Brady a contract after he agreed with Bucks - purely for PR. No team ever loses their franchise QB (much less a HOF one) unless they want to - period.

They did not offer him a contact during his free agency till he agreed with Tampa. What time does not tall to their free agent QB they want to sign?

And there are a bunch of other things that reinforce this. The fact there is a large portion of the fanbase with their head in the sand in complete denial is mind blowing. Just goes to show the power of team PR.

That is not true. Kraft spoke to Brady before he had any deal
Of course Brady had been negotiating with Miami for a year while under contract with the Patriots.

There is nothing that reinforces that other than blind speculation.
Those with their head in the sand are the ones who think Brady loves them and wanted to stay but big meanie belichick hurt his feelings. Brady was negotiating with Miami in 2019, months after playing in 4 SBs in 5 years and winning 3, and DURING negotiations with the patriots where he negotiated an out and no franchise tag. Brady didn’t want to be here. That’s the fact.

 

[Grogan14]

That is not true. Kraft spoke to Brady before he had any deal
Of course Brady had been negotiating with Miami for a year while under contract with the Patriots.

There is nothing that reinforces that other than blind speculation.
Those with their head in the sand are the ones who think Brady loves them and wanted to stay but big meanie belichick hurt his feelings. Brady was negotiating with Miami in 2019, months after playing in 4 SBs in 5 years and winning 3, and DURING negotiations with the patriots where he negotiated an out and no franchise tag. Brady didn’t want to be here. That’s the fact.

Brady did not want to be here for good reason. He had been getting paid less than fair market value for years and never complained in public.
What reward did he get for this? He was treated like shi* by the genius. BB messed up because he did not believe Brady could play well into his 40's so he lowballed him. He should not have been taking with Miami, but his frustration is completely understandable.
Kraft also bears responsibility for not seeing Brady's dis satisfaction with his treatment coming from a mile a way and not making sure he was paid what he should have been and also treated with respect. Kraft chose BB over Brady and this has proven to be a very bad decision.

Brady went on to play at top tier level for 3 more years, while Bill has driven this franchise into the cesspool of mediocrity (at best) and irrelevancy.

 

[RIpats88]

You say that like anyone ever wants someone not on their terms.

It’s ridiculous that Brady would be so insecure that one year deals were a problem.

There is absolutely no evidence that bb wouldn’t give Brady a 2 year deal.
Thee is evidence that Kraft asked Brady what could be done for him to stay and Brady said “nothing”

The idea that bb forced Brady to leave us fiction made up by people who are brady fans first and patriot fans second in order to fool themselves into thinking Brady loved them.

There's plenty of evidence that Brady wanted a 2 year deal and Bill offered him 1. That happened after the Superbowl season.

And when Brady knew it was evident he wasn't going to get a 2 year deal he made the decision it was time to go. And he left and proved Bill wrong.

Bill refused to budge from his method where he needs guys on "his" terms. Acting like brady left in a bubble and ignoring that Bill had anything to do with it is just revisionist history.

 

[RIpats88]

You forgot the offensive players who did the bulk of the work that postseason, Sony Michel and the offensive line. Michel led the entire NFL postseason in rushing yards, yards per carry and TD's. Also our high powered offense only scored a TD and FG in the Super Bowl... luckily our defense held the 2nd highest scoring team in the NFL to a historically low 3 points. Luckily football isn't fantasy football or who has the best collection of weapons.

Gronk had a hematoma in his thigh, Edelman was toast and retired next year. We had a lot of offensive talent on the offense, just most of it was on the offensive line... also our TE's and FB could still block the hell out of opponents. Most fans, then and now, didn't think we had talent because they only see "weapons" as talent... when five powerful strong athletic offensive lineman can be just as deadly if not more.

The Patriots have exceptional talent, much of it is untested and young... but they have it. "Average talent" is inaccurate, there are 32 teams and the Patriots are deeper than most. Most of their talent lays in first, second and third year players who still have to prove themselves.

Brady, Gronk, Edelman... all three of them were drafted. I remember Patriot fans on Boston.com sport's forums telling me Edelman was injury prone and not talented enough. I remember them telling me Donta Hightower wasn't fast enough after Mayo got hurt and the sophomore LB had to do way too much... they told me he wasn't talented enough.

Most fans wouldn't recognize talent if it slapped them across the face, but when it does... they pretend they knew it all along.

Theres alot of revisionist history going on with Patriots fans it feels like. If we are talking that 2018 patriots team Edelman was not toast, he probably shouldve been superbowl MVP he was unstoppable, and Gronk made the over the top play to even get them to the goal line for their only TD. and Both Edelman/Gronk/Brady were the main reasons they won the AFCCG against Mahomes and the chiefs.

I really don't follow you that we have exceptional talent that is just untested and young. especially on offense. Who?

 

[Tunescribe]

SHOULD BB be on the proverbial hot seat this season? Considering last year, perhaps. That probably sums things up but after 33 pages ...

 

[RodThePat]

That is not true. Kraft spoke to Brady before he had any deal
Of course Brady had been negotiating with Miami for a year while under contract with the Patriots.

There is nothing that reinforces that other than blind speculation.
Those with their head in the sand are the ones who think Brady loves them and wanted to stay but big meanie belichick hurt his feelings. Brady was negotiating with Miami in 2019, months after playing in 4 SBs in 5 years and winning 3, and DURING negotiations with the patriots where he negotiated an out and no franchise tag. Brady didn’t want to be here. That’s the fact.

Brady was negotiating with Miami in 2019 after being denied an extension in the mold of the one Drew Brees had signed for two off-seasons in a row. When it became clear the Patriots didn't want him, he set his mind on leaving. 3/75 in early 2018 and he stays. 2/50 in early 2019 and he stays. He asked both times. Bill wanted to take him year to year, which is understandable given Tom's age. No one is the villain here, they parted because there were differences in how each party valued Brady's ability to remain productive into his mid 40's.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady did not want to be here for good reason. He had been getting paid less than fair market value for years and never complained in public.
What reward did he get for this? He was treated like shi* by the genius. BB messed up because he did not believe Brady could play well into his 40's so he lowballed him. He should not have been taking with Miami, but his frustration is completely understandable.
Kraft also bears responsibility for not seeing Brady's dis satisfaction with his treatment coming from a mile a way and not making sure he was paid what he should have been and also treated with respect. Kraft chose BB over Brady and this has proven to be a very bad decision.

Brady went on to play at top tier level for 3 more years, while Bill has driven this franchise into the cesspool of mediocrity (at best) and irrelevancy.

Brady accepted all of those contracts, was praised for them and never claimed that he had any problem with. No evidence of this other than you think it.
Brady thoroughly praises Belichick.
No evidence belichick “lowballed him” the only report of any numbers was more than what Tampa paid him.
Kraft didn’t choose Brady did.

Nothing here but your feelings. I understand you want to think Brady loves you and he would have stayed to play for you but was forced out, but it’s all in your head. The evidence only suggests Brady wanted to move on and did.

 

[Ring 6]

There's plenty of evidence that Brady wanted a 2 year deal and Bill offered him 1. That happened after the Superbowl season.

And when Brady knew it was evident he wasn't going to get a 2 year deal he made the decision it was time to go. And he left and proved Bill wrong.

Bill refused to budge from his method where he needs guys on "his" terms. Acting like brady left in a bubble and ignoring that Bill had anything to do with it is just revisionist history.

There is no evidence of belichick offering 1 year. If you think there is please provide it.
How did he “prove bill wrong”? What did BB ever say or do (outside of your imagination) to imply he thought Brady couldn’t play. He calls him the goat consistently.
What terms? There is no evidence that bb out terms in anything. This has been created by people who want to think Brady loves them and was forced to jilt them.
Feel free to show any evidence at all that is y just conjecture, feelings and what you wish were true.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady was negotiating with Miami in 2019 after being denied an extension in the mold of the one Drew Brees had signed for two off-seasons in a row. When it became clear the Patriots didn't want him, he set his mind on leaving. 3/75 in early 2018 and he stays. 2/50 in early 2019 and he stays. He asked both times. Bill wanted to take him year to year, which is understandable given Tom's age. No one is the villain here, they parted because there were differences in how each party valued Brady's ability to remain productive into his mid 40's.

None of this is anything but your imagination.
Brady negotiated with Miami WHILE he was negotiating with the Patriots.
There is no evidence of him asking for anything and being denied.
Look at it this way. How do you know the 2019 negotiation didn’t go like this:
Brady let Miami tamper, decided he had won enough, wanted a less intense atmosphere and better weather so told the Patriots he would only accept what they signed in 2019 with the 8 mill raise, 2 voidable years and waiving of the franchise tag? Not a single thing in that contract benefited the patriots. You act as if it was shoved down his throat but the terms scream of someone who wants out, and may have threatened a holdout to get it. See my speculation has more basis than yours.
But keep telling me bb wanted him gone do he gave him 8 million extra he didn’t need to.

 

[Ring 6]

He wanted Brady on his terms - I.e. one year deals at way below market value (highest pay was $23MM in 2019 after winning a SB and gave him $3MM as a bonus when they did not give him 2 year contract he wanted when average QBs were making $30MM). BB wanted 1 year deals so he could be in complete control of Brady's future.

Brady wanted a 2 year deal so that he would have some consistency which was a very mild demand.

Summary - BB was so unreasonable to the point that he wanted Brady to get out without having to do the pushing so he could not be blamed which he got.

By the way, BBs terms were, in 2019 he gave Brady a contract that increased his 2019 salary by $8,000,000 and paid him $30,000,000 in 2020 and $32,000,000 in 2021. Brady wanted the years to be voidable and the franchise tag waived if he chose to leave. So belichick terms were 2/62 plus 8 mill for the hell of it which you appear to consider one year below market deals for a guy who left and got the same 2 years for 12 million less. Your imagination is faulty.

 

[50-yard-line]

This is due largely in part to Brady always taking less for the greater good of the team. I truly believe the organization thought Brady wouldn't leave.. your right on your assessment.

This is SO overblown. Brady earned over a half-billion $ over his career. It's not like he was making chicken scratch while others were buying the high life. He was smart enough to understand that taking a bit less gave him (HIM, and not just the team) a better chance to win, and that winning would pay him huge dividends along the road.

It has. There is no practical difference in lifestyle, in having anything you want, between 25 million and 30 million. None. Zero, Zilch.

Winning gets you a legacy money can't buy. Winning gets you opportunities (to make $$$$$) that losers don't get. Dan Marino's life would be materially and measurably better if he had won even ONE ring.

So, bravo to Brady for being smart and for not letting personal ego overwhelm the whole point of it all. That's all many of these contracts are: I want to be the highest-paid! It's ego, nothing more.

 

[Wozzy]

I really don't follow you that we have exceptional talent that is just untested and young. especially on offense. Who?

Offense: Mac, Zappe, Strange, Anderson, Russey, Jake Andrews, Mafi, Sidy Sow, Scotty Washington, Kevin Harris, Pierre Strong, Tyquan Thornton, Demario Douglas, Ed Lee, Marcus Jones.

All these ^ guys have at least "good" talent. When talking about Marcus, Tyquan, Strong, Douglas and all five young offensive linemen were talking "great" talent. Have they shown the ability to pay consistently at a high level yet? No, but the talent is there. It was evident in their measurables exiting college.

Defense: Barmore hasn't scratched the surface yet, Keion White is a sick athlete, Anfernee Jennings is pinned to the bench because of Judon, Uche could still develop into an every down LB, Mapu looks like a heat seeking missile, Gonzalez was the #1 ranked CB on the board for a reason, even projects like Quandre Mosely, Ameer Speed and Rodney Randle have great athleticism.

If the Patriots can tap into 2/3rds of the talent above they can contend or even win a ring. "No talent" is a bad take, untested talent is far more accurate.

 

[50-yard-line]

Theres alot of revisionist history going on with Patriots fans it feels like. If we are talking that 2018 patriots team Edelman was not toast, he probably shouldve been superbowl MVP he was unstoppable, and Gronk made the over the top play to even get them to the goal line for their only TD. and Both Edelman/Gronk/Brady were the main reasons they won the AFCCG against Mahomes and the chiefs.

I really don't follow you that we have exceptional talent that is just untested and young. especially on offense. Who?

You leave out Michel, who was instrumental in that run...or, as the saying goes, "it was the OL!," well, then, you leave out the OL, and the TE leading the charge on the ground.
The Patriots have a deep and very athletic core of YOUNG players. We don't know which will become great, if any, but they certainly have a bunch who will be above average.

Why would BB go out and break the bank for the A+ weapons without a proven QB to make them work, and I wish you or anyone else would tell me how BB should find that QB.
Because that's the mystery of the modern NFL. You can't just go buy a QB...unless you want to risk everything for an Aaron Rodgers (and even that is dependent more on the aging star than anything else, and is extremely rare). Witness the Colts trying to buy their QB year after year. As for drafting one, it's very rare that THE GUY at QB lasts past the first few picks, because THE GUY at QB is very rare.

You can't hang it on BB that we haven't hit that QB yet. The Pats have a guy in year three who may or may not be good enough for the promised land. If he shows that maybe he is this year, I expect they'll try to get the best weapons they can to put around him.

It's a shame the NFL has weaseled the game in this direction. They're so interested in making the "face" of the league that they've made it near impossible to win without THE GUY, which means misery for most fan bases, however well the rest of the organization is run.

 

[Wozzy]

Brady did not want to be here for good reason.

His wife.

He had been getting paid less than fair market value for years and never complained in public.

He did that by choice so the team could contend for rings.

What reward did he get for this?

4 Super Bowls and 3 rings... legend status.

He was treated like shi* by the genius. BB messed up because he did not believe Brady could play well into his 40's so he lowballed him. He should not have been taking with Miami, but his frustration is completely understandable.

Listen to Tom talk about BB now and get misty, there is zero animosity there... none. The Tom versus BB narrative is complete fiction.

He was talking to Miami because Giselle was from there and pressuring him to retire or find a way to Florida.

I'll gladly accept the way it ended with 4 Super Bowls and 3 wins over the alternative, watching Tom get old on a team still borrowing to be a mediocre playoff team who can't win a ring. With the cap clueless who reside here telling us BB wasn't doing enough to help Tom, while refusing to admit the team was flat broke.

A basic understanding of the salary cap is first step to understand modern NFL team building.

 

[Real fan 02]

This is SO overblown. Brady earned over a half-billion $ over his career. It's not like he was making chicken scratch while others were buying the high life. He was smart enough to understand that taking a bit less gave him (HIM, and not just the team) a better chance to win, and that winning would pay him huge dividends along the road.

It has. There is no practical difference in lifestyle, in having anything you want, between 25 million and 30 million. None. Zero, Zilch.

Winning gets you a legacy money can't buy. Winning gets you opportunities (to make $$$$$) that losers don't get. Dan Marino's life would be materially and measurably better if he had won even ONE ring.

So, bravo to Brady for being smart and for not letting personal ego overwhelm the whole point of it all. That's all many of these contracts are: I want to be the highest-paid! It's ego, nothing more.

Oh highly agree with your take. But as far as what Brady took as a player from the organization during his time was significantly less than what most QB's took. This was Done because Brady was a team first guy. That element is a lost commodity these days.

The owners have cemented that it's a business.. so players have to look at themselves as independent contractors.

 

[Wozzy]

People seem to forget that from 2005-2013 Tom Brady was one of the highest paid players in the NFL, in 2010 he literally was the highest paid player in the NFL... for about ten minutes.

Over that time the team came close to a ring many times but no cigar. All the Championships came while Tom was playing on a rookie deal or at the end of his tenure when he agreed to take less. This allowed the team to spend more on the rest of the roster.

So far Mahomes has won all his rings while on his rookie deal or while still benefitting from that low cap hit. Josh Allen has zero rings to show for his rookie deal, neither do Joe Burrow or Herbert. Moan and cry all you want about BB, he maximized Tommy's talent and got the most rings out of him.

 

[Real fan 02]

People seem to forget that from 2005-2013 Tom Brady was one of the highest paid players in the NFL, in 2010 he literally was the highest paid player in the NFL... for about ten minutes.

Over that time the team came close to a ring many times, but no cigar. All the Championships came while Tom was playing on a rookie deal or at the end of his tenure when he agreed to take less. This allowed the team to spend more on the rest of the roster.

So far Mahomes has won all his rings while on his rookie deal or while still benefitting from that low cap hit. Josh Allen has zero rings to show for his rookie deal, neither do Joe Burrow or Herbert. Moan and cry all you want about BB, he maximized Tommy's talent and got the most rings out of him.

Spot on assessment! BB is the best at maximizing talent while on rookie deals.

 

[RodThePat]

None of this is anything but your imagination.
Brady negotiated with Miami WHILE he was negotiating with the Patriots.
There is no evidence of him asking for anything and being denied.
Look at it this way. How do you know the 2019 negotiation didn’t go like this:
Brady let Miami tamper, decided he had won enough, wanted a less intense atmosphere and better weather so told the Patriots he would only accept what they signed in 2019 with the 8 mill raise, 2 voidable years and waiving of the franchise tag? Not a single thing in that contract benefited the patriots. You act as if it was shoved down his throat but the terms scream of someone who wants out, and may have threatened a holdout to get it. See my speculation has more basis than yours.
But keep telling me bb wanted him gone do he gave him 8 million extra he didn’t need to.

Brady was negotiating with Miami after he already made his mind to leave the Patriots. The terms don't scream of someone who wants out, the terms scream of someone who thought he could still be a top 8 QB in the league or so, which 25 million a year guaranteed indicated. Bill wasn't willing to go there, and he wasn't willing to take less to stay. That's it. I mean, Belichick very clearly didn't want to give him an extension, I don't know how you could believe otherwise. It's just understandable that he didn't. 3/75 extension coming off the 2017 Super Bowl and Tom retires a Patriot. It's very defensible to argue that was too much money guaranteed for a player his age, it's indefensible to argue that wouldn't have been enough for him to stay.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady was negotiating with Miami after he already made his mind to leave the Patriots. The terms don't scream of someone who wants out, the terms scream of someone who thought he could still be a top 8 QB in the league or so, which 25 million a year guaranteed indicated. Bill wasn't willing to go there, and he wasn't willing to take less to stay. That's it. I mean, Belichick very clearly didn't want to give him an extension, I don't know how you could believe otherwise. It's just understandable that he didn't. 3/75 extension coming off the 2017 Super Bowl and Tom retires a Patriot. It's very defensible to argue that was too much money guaranteed for a player his age, it's indefensible to argue that wouldn't have been enough for him to stay.

Your argument is that BB let Brady go but before the 2019 season he was already gone and negotiating with Miami? That doesn’t add up.
Bill gave him an 8 million dollar raise for 2019 and salaries of 30mill for 20 and 32 mill for 21 and beady demanded those years being voidable and franchise tag waived. Are you saying he already made up his mind and that was not in good faith? That would be worse.
Belichick gave him an extension. How can that be proof he didn’t want to?
He had a contract with the patriots for 62 mill that he walked away from to take 2/50 from Tampa. He left for less.

 

[50-yard-line]

He left for less.

And he left for a team that was a great QB/leader away from another ring, as we saw.

Two 1500-yard exceptional WRs BEFORE he got there and added AB. Two competent, upcoming TEs BEFORE he got there and added Gronk. And added a hungry Fournette, who played like a demon.


When Brady left for Tampa, I was confused - until I took a closer look at that team, flush with top 10 draft picks and held back ONLY because Winston kept throwing to the wrong team.