Hopkins Headed to Tennessee

[Wozzy]

That's quite a statement coming from the excuse making rebuilding king. So what are you expecting out of the team this season then? Wins? Playoffs? Division title? I'm guessing you're a definite yes on the playoffs since you say the only thing keeping them from the postseason was everyone's favorite scapegoat Patricia. The real culprit is still here but hopefully he got it right this time. Also the quarterback has a lot to prove this season, that's the main thing I'm looking at.

The only thing fans can hope to expect for… a legitimate contender.

Winning a ring is hard, just because the Patriots made it look easy doesn’t make it so. Beyond talent a team needs a lot of luck, which in the NFL means health.

Some Patriots fans have become entitled, that’s why when someone explains the need to rebuild it irks them… they need instant gratification and actually feel like they’re owed it.

 

[Wozzy]

Imagine trying to build an argument by isolating career best seasons (JuJu four years ago, Parker three years ago) and doing it with a straight face.

If a player has the talent to do it once, then the player has the talent do it. You can’t fake it and only injury can take it away.

Even though these WR’s didn’t match career highs last season they still showed they can play. But we get it… Patriots suck, everyone else great.

 

[Wozzy]

It’s funny because I know you weren’t a fan of Parker or JuJu before they became Patriots

I’m a Patriot’s fan, why would I be a fan of other teams players?

You don’t know anything either. Juju has always been a good slot receiver, Parker was a high draft pick who took time to develop and had injury issues, the talent was always there. Don’t pretend you know me, you don’t.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If a player has the talent to do it once, then the player has the talent do it. You can’t fake it and only injury can take it away.

Even though these WR’s didn’t match career highs last season they still showed they can play. But we get it… Patriots suck, everyone else great.

Age takes it away.

Meanwhile what about the many other seasons (majority) where both JJSS and Parker failed expectations and were at about half the production of their one time outlier peak seasons? Those aren’t the more accurate gauge?

 

[Wozzy]

Age takes it away.

Meanwhile what about the many other seasons (majority) where both JJSS and Parker failed expectations and were at about half the production of their one time outlier peak seasons? Those aren’t the more accurate gauge?

No it doesn’t. Snaps and injury takes it away.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The only thing fans can hope to expect for… a legitimate contender.

Winning a ring is hard, just because the Patriots made it look easy doesn’t make it so. Beyond talent a team needs a lot of luck, which in the NFL means health.

Some Patriots fans have become entitled, that’s why when someone explains the need to rebuild it irks them… they need instant gratification and actually feel like they’re owed it.

A rebuild is what we all wanted. This is a stubborn slow fall headed to the bottom.

 

[Patsgofor4]

A rebuild is what we all wanted. This is a stubborn slow fall headed to the bottom.

So stop following them, if you are convinced that they are such a sinking ship. We will somehow survive without your posts.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

So stop following them, if you are convinced that they are such a sinking ship. We will somehow survive without your posts.

I doubt it.

 

[All3Phases]

I’m a Patriot’s fan, why would I be a fan of other teams players?

You don’t know anything either. Juju has always been a good slot receiver, Parker was a high draft pick who took time to develop and had injury issues, the talent was always there. Don’t pretend you know me, you don’t.

You don’t have to like other teams, but you can acknowledge other good players right?

I certainly do not know you but I do knows what you thought of these players before they became patriots and it was not what you just described

 

[crawhammer]

Some Patriots fans have become entitled, that’s why when someone explains the need to rebuild it irks them… they need instant gratification and actually feel like they’re owed it.

Well, they can feel better now that you've put everyone on notice that THE REBUILD IS OVER.

The only thing fans can hope to expect for… a legitimate contender.

Are we going to get that?

Winning a ring is hard, just because the Patriots made it look easy doesn’t make it so. Beyond talent a team needs a lot of luck, which in the NFL means health.

They may have made winning the division look easy, or even getting to the conference championship game look easy, but they never made it look easy winning a Super Bowl. Every Super Bowl decided by 10 points or less, the first seven by 4 points or less, all nine decided in the 4th quarter, and all 6 wins by way of a comeback and/or a game-winning drive. Having won them that way is more impressive than making it look easy.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The only thing fans can hope to expect for… a legitimate contender.

Winning a ring is hard, just because the Patriots made it look easy doesn’t make it so. Beyond talent a team needs a lot of luck, which in the NFL means health.

Some Patriots fans have become entitled, that’s why when someone explains the need to rebuild it irks them… they need instant gratification and actually feel like they’re owed it.

The deal is, Bill/Bob/Patriots have set that standard though. People in Boston and Pats fans throughout the U.S. expect a competitive team. They are the most winningest franchise in the last 20+ years and are tied for the most Lombardi's, so it shouldn't be acceptable to start slipping especially while Bill is here. Things have become more difficult now because they don't have competent QB play.

The Lakers are a great example. Out here in SoCal, Lakers fans do not tolerate bad seasons and the organization understands that (except under Jim Buss). There is a standard that has been set and they do what they have to do to become competitive year in and year out.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Patriots have $110M in cap space for 2024, 10M more than any other team. The other teams in that range are the Bears, Texans, Titans and Commanders.

Looks like the Patriots are falling into the dreaded 3 year cycle of huge free agency spending for a paper tiger shot at a wild card followed by two years of decline, rinse and repeat, like some other teams. Not developing their own talent or just letting it go (Thuney) and passing on these types of trades are the reason they'll again be setting a free agency frenzy record while Team Bill gushes about the ludicrously overpriced jags they sign.

It's time for a new GM. Bill is still a good Xs and Os coach other than his ****ty short distance risk:reward philosophy that costs the team games. But given his influence over the org an autonomous GM would never work.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The deal is, Bill/Bob/Patriots have set that standard though. People in Boston and Pats fans throughout the U.S. expect a competitive team. They are the most winningest franchise in the last 20+ years and are tied for the most Lombardi's, so it shouldn't be acceptable to start slipping especially while Bill is here. Things have become more difficult now because they don't competent QB play.

The Lakers are a great example. Out here in SoCal, Lakers fans do no tolerate bad seasons and the organization understands that (except under Jim Buss). There is a standard that has been set and they do what they have to do to become competitive year in and year out.

They have a QB on a rookie contract. Their roster should be loaded and ready. They've had three years to rebuild, accumulate draft picks, sign actual elite free agents, trade for cornerstone players. That's what they're afforded with having such a low QB contract and having less pressure because of job security. The roster is unbelievably underwhelming, there are very few young impact players, and some mercenary, aging skill players.

 

[captain stone]

Interesting. To me it sounds like damage control.

Agreed. The whole culture/locker-room fit business is a red herring. Then why is Bill so effusive in his praise of him, like Always?

 

[captain stone]

Much like the short lived “maybe not” emoji, the “already been discussed” emoji has quickly been abused by posters.

There was a Maybe Not emoji?

 

[TheRainMaker]

There was a Maybe Not emoji?

Oh yeah.

 

[Dingleberry]

Patriots probably led in 2006 too.

How dare you. You get the evil eye for that. Or, evil eyes.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I love you man but this post wasn't it.

Here's the thing, BCG and probably where we differ in our assessment of Brady and ideas of what it takes to be a real superbowl contender and the question of whether you need an MVP type QB to win a superbowl.

99% of the time you do need a MVP type QB to win a SB. There is no magic words or post to make you think differently. Most of the time you need special. Thats not really up for debate. We don't live life by the exception and the norm is you need a top tier MVP type QB to win.

And while Brady wasn't "special" statistically he certainly provided special moments to say the least. As did Manning in different ways, when he tossed 30 int his rookie year. Or Burrow having pedestrian #'s his rookie year. You saw "special" from them in different forms that let you walk away thinking they would play in a SB. That's what we're talking about here Ken. We know QB's can improve. We all know Brady’s story. This has nothing to do with that. It's simply a matter of play. What you bring to the field every week. What you can make happen.

So why does everyone here seem to look at Mac and make the mistake of deciding his ceiling is what we saw last year. How can we have watched the entire Brady era and NOT believe that significant improvement is possible.

No one is judging Mac solely off last year. Or believes he can't get better. In fact its quite the opposite from where I sit. Patricia and Judge got most of the blame from the majority of the base. He was the 15th overall pick. It's ok to examine him closely. So far, excuses and all. Hes been a average to slightly below average QB. We know he's got room to improve. We're going to need a little more than that. A little magic from Mac to run the gauntlet some day.

Brady was the biggest outlier in sports history. I take him out and put him on a separate tier tbh.

When we were going through the 2021 rookie QB class prior to the draft, the attribute I liked most about Jones was, by all reports, psychotically competitive. He made himself into a great college QB. He was WILLING to compete against the best college QB prospects in the country at Alabama, when it would have been easy to look at who was there and who was coming in and head to the portal. That tells me more about a guy than a couple of selected clips that drive a narrative.

Mac went to Alabama knowing he would immediately sit, Ken. He beat out Young later but knew he was sitting initially.

Now I FULLY expect Mac and the offense to be SIGNIFICANTLY better this season. Whether that improvement translates into wins or how many, I have no clue. It IS a killer schedule. I also fully expect that after whatever improvement we see from Mac this season, I expect to be better beyond. Now will that improvement translate into the perception that he's one of the best QB's in the NFL. I don't know. What I DO know is that it took Brady a lot longer for him to reach that perception than a mere 2 years

We need Mac to make a BIG "Kirk jump" Ken.
(not my tiers but tough to argue with it as a whole)

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I love you man but this post wasn't it.

99% of the time you do need a MVP type QB to win a SB. There is no magic words or post to make you think differently. Most of the time you need special. Thats not really up for debate. We don't live life by the exception and the norm is you need a top tier MVP type QB to win.

And while Brady wasn't "special" statistically he certainly provided special moments to say the least. As did Manning in different ways, when he tossed 30 int his rookie year. Or Burrow having pedestrian #'s his rookie year. You saw "special" from them in different forms that let you walk away thinking they would play in a SB. That's what we're talking about here Ken. We know QB's can improve. We all know Brady’s story. This has nothing to do with that. It's simply a matter of play. What you bring to the field every week. What you can make happen.

No one is judging Mac solely off last year. Or believes he can't get better. In fact its quite the opposite from where I sit. Patricia and Judge got most of the blame from the majority of the base. He was the 15th overall pick. It's ok to examine him closely. So far, excuses and all. Hes been a average to slightly below average QB. We know he's got room to improve. We're going to need a little more than that. A little magic from Mac to run the gauntlet some day.

Brady was the biggest outlier in sports history. I take him out and put him on a separate tier tbh.

Mac went to Alabama knowing he would immediately sit, Ken. He beat out Young later but knew he was sitting initially.

We need Mac to make a BIG "Kirk jump" Ken.

After the flukey 2017 postseason, the Vikings got rid of Case Keenum. The Eagles traded Nick Foles. The Jags gave Bortles one more year on a short leash then moved on. All three guys played in the conference championship round. All three teams management realized that everything had to go right and it would be unlikely to see any of those guys repeat the same level of good fortune. All of these guys washed out as expected.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

After the flukey 2017 postseason, the Vikings got rid of Case Keenum. The Eagles traded Nick Foles. The Jags gave Bortles one more year on a short leash then moved on. All three guys played in the conference championship round. All three teams management realized that everything had to go right and it would be unlikely to see any of those guys repeat the same level of good fortune. All of these guys washed out as expected.

Yea we need to know if Mac is ...

A guy that can carry you/is the system

Franchise guy

A guy you can win with/gives you above average spurts

A guy that doesn't hurt you

A guy you need to cover up