BOB 'Completely Reworking' Pats Offense

[patfanken]

I found this article, I think it's good: The Erhardt-Perkins System - Baltimore Sports and Life which in turn quotes another article » Speak My Language





Sadly it seems a defensive minded rocket scientist couldn't master it.

Thanks for providing this link. It should be one the must read list for all Pats fans.

I have repeatedly said that it is the semantics or language that is critical in ANY offensive and defensive system. Teams spend long days in the off season to tinker with these semantics. The goal is to give the most information clearly in the fewest words possible. As offenses have evolved and gotten more complex, this job has gotten much harder for coaches, especially on offense.

However on the defensive side info has SEEMED to have gone in a different direction. How often these days have you seen the defense actually huddle up to get the signals. It's kind of rare now. I think it's because so much of what the defense wants to do is based on what the offense shows them pre-snap. It's THEN when the offense shows its formation and personnel grouping that calls are made

 

[n1997y]

Source: Breer: Bill O'Brien is 'completely reworking' the Patriots offense

My first thoughts: how are the trolls here going to spin this into being a bad thing? The obvious one is they're making it too complicated, it's gonna fail. Who knows, in a few months maybe they'll be calling for the return of MP and his simple offense. We've seen it all here, right?

took less than the first page.

and how they did it was even less complicated than simply saying it was too complicated:

Let’s not forget he had full control in Houston for many years and had mediocre offenses. After he was fired, Watson had his best season as a pro.

Yet, when he returns to NE, he’s got all these tricks up his sleeve?

Clearly, BOB doesn’t know what he’s doing.

just like MP didn’t know what he was doing. Joe Judge didn’t know what he was doing. BB doesnt know what he’s doing. RK doesn’t know what he’s doing. None of them know how to coach.

the only ones who know anything are the negative nancies on this board. You can tell how much they know by how great they are at being wet blankets.

Yeah, let's not miss an opportunity to be pessimistic months before the season starts.

In early, shape the dialogue.

After quoting the article, did you really have to add this condescending, useless line to display your bona fides as a member in Good Standing in Little Billy's Joy Division?

You couldn't just post the link, and leave it at that?

I mean, if that was indeed your first thought, then you think about others possibly hurting Dear Leader's feelings too often.

Hit too close to home?

No, I honestly want to know how this article would be shot down, and so far the fellowship of the miserable aren't really delivering.

The one line about BOB being unpopular with Alabama fans is a big meh in my book.

they‘re trying. Usual playbook. Ad hominem. Attack all the coaches. This time BOB. Getting threadbare.

 

[patfanken]

Just a thought on the whole "Mac is a wimp because he cried after getting hurt" thing.

I find it odd that it's even an issue, UNLESS you have a specific Mac hatred thing going. I was watching that play as well, and MY first reaction to the play and its after effects was this. I saw an emotional kid reacting to what he thought might be a season ending injury. I saw someone who was crying because he thought his season was over after all the hard work and effort he put in the off season and all the expectations he imaged.

ALL these NFL players work very hard to play a game they LOVE. (at least most of them). So I didn't see anything wrong with his initial reaction when he obviously felt he season was over. I would have cried too and so would have a lot of you. When you love something THAT much and work so hard to play it, with so much at stake, and think you LOST it; It is a VERY emotional moment.

So its really a non-issue.

We need to judge Jones based on his play ON THE FIELD. He had a bad year last year. There are a LOT of reasons which can explain the regression of his play. We talk about them all the time. We ALL know the arguments both pro and con and can cite them verbatim. They aren't going to change and we have more than 3 months before we can talk about anything that actually happens on the field with pads and bad intentions. I would suggest that we table all the Pro and Con Mac Talk until then. There are a number of things that could use the effort we spend on this overdone topic. The draft is up coming.

 

[archstanton543]

Just a thought on the whole "Mac is a wimp because he cried after getting hurt" thing.

I find it odd that it's even an issue, UNLESS you have a specific Mac hatred thing going. I was watching that play as well, and MY first reaction to the play and its after effects was this. I saw an emotional kid reacting to what he thought might be a season ending injury. I saw someone who was crying because he thought his season was over after all the hard work and effort he put in the off season and all the expectations he imaged.

ALL these NFL players work very hard to play a game they LOVE. (at least most of them). So I didn't see anything wrong with his initial reaction when he obviously felt he season was over. I would have cried too and so would have a lot of you. When you love something THAT much and work so hard to play it, with so much at stake, and think you LOST it; It is a VERY emotional moment.

So its really a non-issue.

We need to judge Jones based on his play ON THE FIELD. He had a bad year last year. There are a LOT of reasons which can explain the regression of his play. We talk about them all the time. We ALL know the arguments both pro and con and can cite them verbatim. They aren't going to change and we have more than 3 months before we can talk about anything that actually happens on the field with pads and bad intentions. I would suggest that we table all the Pro and Con Mac Talk until then. There are a number of things that could use the effort we spend on this overdone topic. The draft is up coming.

If he really was hurt, him hopping over to the sideline would have aggravated it.

To me it looked like he was trying to make it look worse than it was and the crying as entering the locker room didn't help that perception.

 

[n1997y]

Just a thought on the whole "Mac is a wimp because he cried after getting hurt" thing.

I find it odd that it's even an issue, UNLESS you have a specific Mac hatred thing going. I was watching that play as well, and MY first reaction to the play and its after effects was this. I saw an emotional kid reacting to what he thought might be a season ending injury. I saw someone who was crying because he thought his season was over after all the hard work and effort he put in the off season and all the expectations he imaged.

ALL these NFL players work very hard to play a game they LOVE. (at least most of them). So I didn't see anything wrong with his initial reaction when he obviously felt he season was over. I would have cried too and so would have a lot of you. When you love something THAT much and work so hard to play it, with so much at stake, and think you LOST it; It is a VERY emotional moment.

So its really a non-issue.

We need to judge Jones based on his play ON THE FIELD. He had a bad year last year. There are a LOT of reasons which can explain the regression of his play. We talk about them all the time. We ALL know the arguments both pro and con and can cite them verbatim. They aren't going to change and we have more than 3 months before we can talk about anything that actually happens on the field with pads and bad intentions. I would suggest that we table all the Pro and Con Mac Talk until then. There are a number of things that could use the effort we spend on this overdone topic. The draft is up coming.

I get what you’re saying, and generally agree with much of it.

OTOH, as you say, Mac is “an emotional kid.” I think to a point where that’s a flaw.

He gets carried away, kicks opponents. He throws tantrums and tablets when things go badly. He doesn’t handle adversity well and crumbles when his teammates need his leadership the most.

It affects his play on the field. It affects his teammates’ play.

as you said, he’s still a kid. Maybe he’ll grow out of it, or learn to harness and control it. We‘ll see. Maybe, maybe not. But it’s a really big factor affecting his performance, and can’t be ignored.

 

[n1997y]

Explains the reports why Mac has been in the building so much. Of course he wants to rebound but also wants to be on top of all the changes. I can appreciate that.

When I read the OP my first thought was that I hope BOB is revamping the playbook by reviewing it with his QBs and even other leaders of the offense to get their perspectives on what worked and didn’t, why, and how it fit with what they know about player personnel and team strengths and weaknesses at this point in the season. That conversation would also contribute to the players better understanding the concepts behind the design. Maybe I’m an idealist but I read things like this report and hope they indicate that’s what’s happening.
Mac Jones: Patriots' offense is excited to work with Bill O'Brien - ProFootballTalk

 

[Patriot Missile]

When I read the OP my first thought was that I hope BOB is revamping the playbook by reviewing it with his QBs and even other leaders of the offense to get their perspectives on what worked and didn’t, why, and how it fit with what they know about player personnel and team strengths and weaknesses at this point in the season. That conversation would also contribute to the players better understanding the concepts behind the design. Maybe I’m an idealist but I read things like this report and hope they indicate that’s what’s happening.
Mac Jones: Patriots' offense is excited to work with Bill O'Brien - ProFootballTalk

We’ll see. He is in year 3 with the word pivotal attached to it by many. He better click with Bob or its curtains for the kid. Any regression and he becomes a footnote.

 

[n1997y]

What I think is interesting about this is that without knowing the details of either, which we never will, this could say that BOB is doing exactly what MP and JJ did last year. But describing it differently makes it sound totally different. We will see who it works. I just hope Klemm is a big part of installing whatever they come up with, and does a better job than last years coaches did in his area.

 

[n1997y]

We’ll see. He is in year 3 with the word pivotal attached to it by many. He better click with Bob or its curtains for the kid. Any regression and he becomes a footnote.

Agreed. Words and headlines are easy. Performance on the field matters most.

I’m not sold on Mac. Not against him, just need to see more and better from him this year. Wouldn‘t be surprised if Belichick drafts a developmental QB. I could even see him grabbing Richardson if the opportunity presents itself. Not necessarily even for next year, but as a hedge against Mac’s fifth year option. Really that’s true for any QB. We‘ll see. Interesting times.

 

[p8ryts]

Agreed. Words and headlines are easy. Performance on the field matters most.

I’m not sold on Mac. Not against him, just need to see more and better from him this year. Wouldn‘t be surprised if Belichick drafts a developmental QB. I could even see him grabbing Richardson if the opportunity presents itself. Not necessarily even for next year, but as a hedge against Mac’s fifth year option. Really that’s true for any QB. We‘ll see. Interesting times.

Probably someone like Hall or Haener. personally I want Ragnor.

 

[Bill Lee]

the only ones who know anything are the negative nancies on this board. You can tell how much they know by how great they are at being wet blankets.

To me I'm glad that the end result is largely good football talk, and not more whiney context-free trolling. Any jerk can show up and say BOB sucks because Alabama lost a National Championship game, but that's a weak argument.

I think the talk about the Erhardt-Perkins system has been interesting, and the discussion of Mac has been fair and balanced, with both sides of the argument about his toughness or lack thereof largely being presented calmly and fairly.

And personally I think I benefited the most from so far is the following post I'll repeat:

What would be fair and factual is offering context.

Obie was a head coach in Houston, not just an offensive coordinator, not a quarterback. He was responsible for the entire team, not just the offense. He inherited a two win team and General Manager Rick Smith, the quarterbacks his GM saddled him with... year one Ryan Fitzpatrick, year two Brian Hoyer, year three Brock Osweiller, until finally in year four rookie Deshaun Watson. By year five he got Rick Smith fired and he built some semblance of an offensive line, the next two seasons they had an offense that hovered around tenth best went 11-5 then 10-6 and made the playoffs.

The Obie coached Patriot offense in 2010 led the entire NFL in points, yards and the team went 14-2... another in 2011 got them to a Super Bowl, all three were top five in scoring.

It wasn't just Brady making Patriot's offenses superior for two decades. It was Brady, good coaching, a good/great offensive line, power run game, solid weapons, special teams and defense which gave them favorable starting field position and plenty of opportunities by getting them the ball back.

When you peddle in hero worship, you ignore all the facets required to accurately and logically discuss football. This is why people roll their eyes at you Brady zealots.

Honestly, most of us didn't give much attention to the BOB-era Texans so having someone provide some context to his time there is very helpful and informative, IMO. And presenting the 2010 era and Brady and BB instead of Brady vs BB is IMO the right way to look at things. Both Bill and Tom are very complimentary of each other. The whole BB vs TB12 thing has long since run its course, it's time for it to go away. Everything to be said about it has already been said, there's no need to keep running on that particular hamster wheel.

 

[scott99]

Let’s not forget he had full control in Houston for many years and had mediocre offenses. After he was fired, Watson had his best season as a pro.

Yet, when he returns to NE, he’s got all these tricks up his sleeve?

That’s somewhat revisionist history. Watson’s best year was 2020, but it was in the O’Brien offense. O’Brien got fired after an 0-4 start in 2020. Watson had his THREE best years in O’Brien’s offense, and then didn’t play in 2021 in a new offense. Though they didn’t have a top ranked offense, they were in the 14-17 range all three years.

 

[Rob0729]

If he really was hurt, him hopping over to the sideline would have aggravated it.

To me it looked like he was trying to make it look worse than it was and the crying as entering the locker room didn't help that perception.

If he was trying to make it look worse, why was he “acting” after he went down the stairs to go into the locker room where no one can see him. It was just dumb luck that he was filmed at that point. If he was trying to make it look worse than it was, he would have says on the field to have the trainers come out and assist him back to the locker room from the field.

And maybe he did aggravate it when he hopped to the sidelines and that was why he was so much pain when he was filmed down the steps.

 

[scott99]

No, I honestly want to know how this article would be shot down, and so far the fellowship of the miserable aren't really delivering.

The one line about BOB being unpopular with Alabama fans is a big meh in my book.

It’s kinda weird that BOB would be unpopular. Both years with BOB as OC, the Alabama offense finished top 5 in scoring average, I think an average of 41 points a game over the 2 years. And lets face it, besides Bryce Young, they really didn’t have stars like they did the other years. More stars in the 2021 season.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

What an idiotic take and post! An internet tough guy who’s likely as soft as a chocolate bar left in the sun, but who feels the need to compensate by questioning the toughness of others.

You just don’t like Jones, but, unlike other posters who can actually articulate a real reason why, you focus on a guy showing pain moments after a 6’6” 320 man’s full weight fell on his lower leg as your reason.

I’m 6’1, 250, wrestled, played LB, and catcher. 6 concussions, 3 cracked ribs, torn ACL, Separated both shoulders, too many ankle, knee, and other sprains to mention.

Never cried once.

Now…when my kids do something awesome, or a dog dies?

I cry like a baby.

Also…I’m loaded, and feel confident that you’d say none of the things you did above in person…it was a fair comment which others have echoed.

Don’t like it?

Cool.

But let’s not act like a tough guy behind a keyboard while accusing someone else of it.

You want no smoke.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

The guy has played through some significant injuries his first two seasons in the league. He is no Jimmy G.

And how would Bama fans know if he is physically or mentally soft? The guy won two championship games and only lost one game in his college career in 2019. And never missed time due to injury in college.

In fairness, as a Georgia fan, I’d tell you most Bama fans can’t even read so….fair point.

 

[Guts]

I’m 6’1, 250, wrestled, played LB, and catcher. 6 concussions, 3 cracked ribs, torn ACL, Separated both shoulders, too many ankle, knee, and other sprains to mention.

Never cried once.

Now…when my kids do something awesome, or a dog dies?

I cry like a baby.

Also…I’m loaded, and feel confident that you’d say none of the things you did above in person…it was a fair comment which others have echoed.

Don’t like it?

Cool.

But let’s not act like a tough guy behind a keyboard while accusing someone else of it.

You want no smoke.

I'm 6 foot 10, 12 pack abs, chiseled chest that makes Arnold jealous, I defeated Mayweather in boxing, beat Phelps in a swimming race, took out Jon Bones, and with a huge anaconda in my trousers. I want all the smoke

 

[n1997y]

I'm 6 foot 10, 12 pack abs, chiseled chest that makes Arnold jealous, I defeated Mayweather in boxing, beat Phelps in a swimming race, took out Jon Bones, and with a huge anaconda in my trousers. I want all the smoke

I just want whatever you’re smoking to see that from what’s really standing in front of the mirror.

 

[Guts]

I just want whatever you’re smoking to see that from what’s really standing in front of the mirror.

Ayahuasca

 

[patfanken]

If he really was hurt, him hopping over to the sideline would have aggravated it.

To me it looked like he was trying to make it look worse than it was and the crying as entering the locker room didn't help that perception.

I'm guessing you never played contact sports much, but in my experience MOST players first reaction to injury is to get off the field as fast as you can, if able. Might not be the smartest thing, but its what I did and often saw. I know you are more apt to see a players milk injuries more these days, (see ANY soccer player, and too many NBA guys, but most hardcore guys get off the field as fast as possible, yet you want to penalize Mac for being tough,

BTW- I'm not being judgemental if you haven't been in that situation. I know a LOT of great and knowledgeable fans who never played the game or even other sports. And if I guessed wrong and you were an all star athlete.....then you should know better.