Patriots Player Departure Meyers to LV Raiders

[Jim Beankie]

does that include the defensive tds?

Confirming this is more difficult than I thought, as all the "Offensive scoring" pages just showed all 364 pts they scored. According to this, it's estimated they were 22nd with 1st in Defensive scoring:

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Offensive Points per Game (Estimated) | TeamRankings.com

NFL Football offensive points per game (estimated), by team.

www.teamrankings.com

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Defensive Points per Game (Estimated) | TeamRankings.com

NFL Football defensive points per game (estimated), by team.

www.teamrankings.com

 

[Ivan]

Yes an honest question would elicit pearl clutching from the homers but to state that our most productive and consistent receiver over the last few years needs to leave for our offense to get better is asinine. Now we are going to go back to a guy we cut in favor of either the guy we just let walk, Jakobi, or another guy who couldn’t even play receiver, Gunner? Yeah I’m sure that will get us evolving!

Kyed’s main point is what Is the plan? Seems like a more than fair question to ask after some of the personnel moves the last few years. Don’t let that upset you too much though.

Demanding to know what “ the plan” is before the new league year even begins strikes me as idiotic. We can evaluate “ the plan” after they show us what it was, we shouldn’t expect them to telegraph it. This is not a free agency class that you should jump into immediately and throw money around. In fact it appears to be one of the worst free agent classes we have seen in years,

 

[Kdo5]

Meyers is easily worth that, given his connection with Mac. Bad decision to let him walk, it makes WR more of a priority than it already was.

 

[nextsuperstar]

Average Troy Brown season with the Patriots after he became a starter in 2000: 60 catches for 648 yards, 3 TDs. Average Jakobi Meyers season with the Patriots after he became a starter in 2020: 70 catches for 800 yards, 3 TDs. Meyers has also missed less games due to injury and their targets per 17 games rate are very similar (Troy Brown 107 targets/17, Meyers 114 targets/17).

Weak take. He was basically a starter from 2000 to 2003. His per 17 game stats those seasons: 94 receptions for 1024 yards, in a very different league. If you take out 2003 (when he was losing touches to Branch, Givens and Graham) it’s 104 receptions for over 1100 yards. I liked Myers, but he wasn’t Troy Brown.

 

[Wozzy]

Statistically, it wasn't. 17th points per game. Pretty much every category is middle of the road. They are what their record says they are.

You're looking at total points scored, that includes defensive points from interceptions taken to the house, special teams turnovers taken to the house, kickoff and punt returns for TD's, safeties etc...

The most accurate offensive or defensive stat for that matter is not simply "total points scored," but rather "points per drive." It measures how many points were scored specifically by the offense or allowed by the defense on a per drive basis.

In 2021 almost the same exact offense, possibly less talented offense, scored the 6th most points per drive in the entire NFL.

In 2022 the offense scored the 25th worst points per drive. Not only that but they were ranked near dead last in the league in offensive penalties, particularly bad was pre-snap penalties... they couldn't even line up correctly and snap the ball. Not to mention they were 27th in yards per drive, 17th worst in offensive turnovers, 27th worst in 3rd down conversions and 32nd worst (dead last) in red-zone conversions.

2022's offense in relation to 2021 wasn't even close... they were a disaster last season, a dumpster fire. It was coaching... or a lack thereof.

 

[Steve102]

I mean, I've said this countless times: I want a #1 playmaker too.

Who do you suggest?

In the meantime we lost our possession guy and don't have a replacement, even though you named some guys who have never been as productive as him, and who have bounced around from team to team, despite playing with HOF QBs.

I don't know man. I point out Chark, Juju, Odell, and I get chit on. I don't have an answer, I am not a GM in the NFL. Was Meyers as productive as he was because he was the only decent guy here, and everyone else sucked? I have no idea. Here's what I do know:

Bill sucks at identifying, drafting, developing true #1 WRs.
Bill has a very good if not great history with slot/possession type guys. Brown, Welker, Jules, and Meyers.
Bill has shown success in bringing in guys who can get the job done as free agents.
Bill has a very good track record of letting WRs leave here and not being great elsewhere.

There's a lot of guys out there who can play the position. I think Juju is a head case. Beckham would be fine, and I think he'll play for Bill. I have no idea on Hardman, he supposed to be a great athlete. There's plenty of older vets they could bring in, which they don't usually do.

Meyers is supposed to be the #1 guy out there, but he's very much a middle of the road guy. Everyone wants to be more dynamic, but that means we have to put up with them letting guys go while they try to do that, assuming that's what the plan is.

The upside here is that *WITH* Meyers signing for 3/33.....it devalues other FA's like Smith-Schuster, Lazard, Chark, etc...

We could end up signing 2-3 guys to go along with Thorton, a rookie or two, & plus a trade?

This type of market correction contract would put them in the running for a lot of guys, assuming that Meyers is indeed a top of market guy, according to the reports I read.

 

[Steve102]

I really can’t imagine what it would be like to watch one of the offenses in the 30 range if that’s the case. What we saw last year was painful and to think there’s a decent amount that we’re worse is wild.

Stick around with some of us older guys that suffered thru the Rod Rust Era.

I get that it's frustrating to watch them now, knowing how good they once were. Trust me when I say that they are far from the worst thing in football. I'm not excusing the chitshow that was the coaching staff. As bad as anything we've seen in these parts for a long time, and not what we've seen under Belichick ever. Still not the worst in the NFL, but not at the level we are accustomed to seeing in Foxboro.

 

[RodThePat]

Weak take. He was basically a starter from 2000 to 2003. His per 17 game stats those seasons: 94 receptions for 1024 yards, in a very different league. If you take out 2003 (when he was losing touches to Branch, Givens and Graham) it’s 104 receptions for over 1100 yards. I liked Myers, but he wasn’t Troy Brown.

I have no clue why we are including 2003, a year in which he had 60 targets, but not 1999 when he had 56, or 2005 when he had 59, or 2006 when he had 75 but okay. If the argument is that Troy Brown was only more productive than Meyers if take his best 3 year stretch our of 15 seasons in NE, I don't think it's a very strong one.

 

[Ivan]

Not too bad news, keeps open possibility they have (will have to have) bigger WR fish to fry..

This my hope as well. They could make the move for Hopkins, as it sounds like the Cards aren’t looking for a 1st in return, and they could go WR in the 1st round as well. Either move could give them their #1, Thornton their #2, and Bourne their #3 /slot. They will still need more depth, but I would feel good about their starters, Another option could be Hopkins as their #1, and then drafting Kincaid in the 1st, which would give them their top 3 WR’s, and a really good TE receiving prospect to go with Henry. The off-season is just getting started, I’m fine with seeing how it plays out, then evaluating it.

 

[patfanken]

Tom E. Curran's take is also an attempt at analyzing Bill's way of thinking:



Interesting thought, says I.

Yeah, they keep on wanting to ring the "cheap" bell over and over, DESPITE the evidence that the Pats have been at the top of the league in cash spending. Personally I don't get it, but mostly I don't care. Ringing that bell helps their bottom line.

 

[Steve102]

I have no clue why we are including 2003, a year in which he had 60 targets, but not 1999 when he had 56, or 2005 when he had 59, or 2006 when he had 75 but okay. If the argument is that Troy Brown was only more productive than Meyers if take his best 3 year stretch our of 15 seasons in NE, I don't think it's a very strong one.

I think the point is if we had to rank Meyers, Welker, Edelman and Brown, Meyers would be fourth every time.

 

[Ivan]

Meyers is easily worth that, given his connection with Mac. Bad decision to let him walk, it makes WR more of a priority than it already was.

Is it a bad decision f they use that $$$ to go get a true # 1?

 

[Ivan]

I think the point is if we had to rank Meyers, Welker, Edelman and Brown, Meyers would be fourth every time.

Absolutely. And Brown was much more dangerous than Meyers ever was.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Is it a bad decision f they use that $$$ to go get a true # 1?

No, that’s why it’s silly to proclaim this a bad decision when we’ve yet to respond with a wr move.

If after the draft our only move is say a Meyers for Dorsett swap then yes complain away.

 

[JMC00]

Anyone with hopes of Hopkins this should end those

Kraft is very cheap.

 

[Bill Lee]

Don’t be surprised to see Davante Adams production go down because Jimmy would like to throw to the shorter route that is Meyers.

What does that say about Mac's future production?

Gonna go up because he won't have the easy checkdown, or gonna go down because he can't/won't force it in down field?

Instant Rorschach test...

 

[Guts]

Anyone with hopes of Hopkins this should end those

Kraft is very cheap.

 

[nextsuperstar]

I have no clue why we are including 2003, a year in which he had 60 targets, but not 1999 when he had 56, or 2005 when he had 59, or 2006 when he had 75 but okay. If the argument is that Troy Brown was only more productive than Meyers if take his best 3 year stretch our of 15 seasons in NE, I don't think it's a very strong one.

You know why. Your post started with 2000, when he was a starter.I included only the years where he was a starter. In 1999 Terry Glenn and Shawn Jefferson were starters. In 2005 Branch and Givens were starters, While Brown was pressed into playing defensive back. By 2006, Brown was 35 years old. If you want to compare Meyers peak years to Brown at 35 (an age when He was actually more productive than Randy Moss, who had already retired once) then you’re really weakening your argument.

Maybe in LV, Meyers will become a pro bowler and as good as Brown was at his peak, but he wasn’t shown that yet.

 

[Bill Lee]

Yeah, they keep on wanting to ring the "cheap" bell over and over, DESPITE the evidence that the Pats have been at the top of the league in cash spending. Personally I don't get it, but mostly I don't care. Ringing that bell helps their bottom line.

Anyone with hopes of Hopkins this should end those
...
Kraft is very cheap.

I love this forum!

 

[patfanken]

Kyed’s main point is what Is the plan? Seems like a more than fair question to ask after some of the personnel moves the last few years. Don’t let that upset you too much though.

But THAT is my point. Yes Jacobi's production is gone. Yes it has to be replaced. BUT we are just minutes into the process. Seem like people want solutions IMMEDIATELY when there is so much time to fix the problem. If there is STILL no obvious solution after the draft THEN I'll start to join the mob. But we are a LONG way till then.

I'll recall 2 examples from history to maybe help make you feel a bit more at ease.

1. There was a hue and cry when Welker left for Denver for a deal that looked like we could easily match. Later in the process, Bill got Danny Amendola AND Edelman began to develop into the guy we loved at the end of his career (BTW-he was an overnight sensation that took FIVE years to develop.....and that NO one wanted when he was a FA TWICE

2. Then there was a time,, and I forget the names, when Bill signed 2 vet DE's close to TC. Their signing produced a ripple of comment. Depth/.camp fodder were the expectations, and between they accounted for 20 sacks. that year. Someone Help me out with the names and year please.