Tom Brady says he's done "for good"

[PatsWSB47]

So he’s not elite right up until the moment he wins a Super Bowl… then in most cases he becomes not elite again.

This isn’t the scientific method we’ve using here is it?

An average quartback can find a zone. A great quarterback finds a zone a lot more. Sometimes the average quarterback has an outlier kind of streak and outplays the elite guy.

 

[rochrist]

Aside from the exceptions, duh

So, it's Move The Goalposts time. I see.

 

[PatsWSB47]

So, it's Move The Goalposts time. I see.

Ok. I said always and should have said usually. Why are some people so hell bent on dismissing the importance of great quarterbacks to a teams success?

 

[Steve102]

Ok. I said always and should have said usually. Why are some people so hell bent on dismissing the importance of great quarterbacks to a teams success?

So... are you saying it's like the hot goalie leading his team to the Stanley Cup?

 

[Boomer B]

Have you ever worked at the same company for twenty years? Plus his wife was from and wanted to live in Miami.

Brady was a large part of 6 rings, but that wouldn’t have happened anywhere else.

For two decades he played with the best defenses, best O-Lines, special teams and had good weapons around him.

Football isn’t simply he who has the best QB wins, regardless of fanboy drivel… if that were true Tom would have closer to 23 rings and Eli Manning wouldn’t have two.

Best o-lines? Not even close. Belichick pointed out on the podcast that Brady made those o-lines by diagnosing the defence faster then anyone and getting the ball away quick. Look how well our o-line did in 2008 when Brady was out. Our sacks doubled.

 

[PatsWSB47]

So... are you saying it's like the hot goalie leading his team to the Stanley Cup?

First if all i said the best quarterbacks going deep in the playoffs. Not winning a Superbowl necessarily. But yeah a quarterback getting hot in the playoffs can lead a team to going deeper and sometimes winning a Superbowl. Look it. A quarterback is the most important position on a team. They get paid the most. Why?

 

[Steve102]

First if all i said the best quarterbacks going deep in the playoffs. Not winning a Superbowl necessarily. But yeah a quarterback getting hot in the playoffs can lead a team to going deeper and sometimes winning a Superbowl. Look it. A quarterback is the most important position on a team. They get paid the most. Why?

I'm just trying to help you clarify your position. Don't be defensive, not everyone here is gonna jump on you because they might disagree.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I'm just trying to help you clarify your position. Don't be defensive, not everyone here is gonna jump on you because they might disagree.

Okay, I get it. Thanks

 

[Bill Lee]

I love Felger and Mazz but anyone who listens to that show for actual analysis is a buffoon. Those guys are strictly entertainment and they flat out say they don't believe half of the nonsense they come up with. They manufacture outrage and drama and they win either way. The people who agree with them listen because they agree and the people who get pissed at their nonsense wait on hold for 45 minutes to get 5 seconds to tell Felger he's an idiot.

Too bad many people here aren't in on the joke.

PT Barnum (allegedly) said there's a sucker born every minute.

Felger and Mazz keep that legacy alive.

 

[Wozzy]

An average quartback can find a zone. A great quarterback finds a zone a lot more. Sometimes the average quarterback has an outlier kind of streak and outplays the elite guy.

There are different tiers of QB, no doubt.

But the difference between the best of the best is negligible at best, so small it can barely be seen with a microscope.

Execution, game plan, play calling, blocking, precision route running, catching... everything that has to go right just on offense to win.. it's silly to give the QB all or the majority of the credit.

It also is incredibly insulting towards the defense and special team. They're just tourists apparently.

Football results are about the QB in relation to the rest of the team.

A great QB on a bad team is a bad team, with maybe 2-3 more wins. Matt Stafford in his prime.

 

[Steve102]

Too bad many people here aren't in on the joke.

PT Barnum (allegedly) said there's a sucker born every minute.

Felger and Mazz keep that legacy alive.

You could always...

 

[Wozzy]

Best o-lines? Not even close. Belichick pointed out on the podcast that Brady made those o-lines by diagnosing the defence faster then anyone and getting the ball away quick. Look how well our o-line did in 2008 when Brady was out. Our sacks doubled.

And he did, Brady made everyone on offense better.

Over 20 years the Pats roster had a wide vary of strengths and weaknesses at a given time. Sometimes the O-line was an overwhelming strength, sometimes they were just "good" to "very good" talent wise, but were always well coached... well, up until 2022 I mean.

The especially lean time was after Tom's rookie deal ended up until 2013 while he was among the highest paid players in the NFL. Rookie contracts are huge for QB's, because if they're good you can win right away with a good team. You can roster build with tremendous resources outside of the QB position because they're getting paid peanuts.

Pat's fans hear me talk about the QB position and think it's veiled Brady hate. The funny thing is I hear the fanboys talk all the time about Tom's exploits and rarely mention his biggest contribution to this franchise as a player. The greatest thing IMO that Tom Brady did and that set him apart was his will to win. Mike Lombardi talks about this on his "Brady retires" podcast episode, it's the first thing Mike mentions.

In the last couple years of his Patriot's run Tom Brady was making 15 million per season. Brady was the ultimate leader. He put his money where his mouth is, and took less money when he didn't have to. And no, it wasn't because Bob/Bill were mean or cheap. Brady agreed to do that because he understood there was a salary cap. That's leadership. That puts all the hyperbolic nonsense about Tom's ability to pass the ball, block for himself and play defense to shame.

Fk all the exaggeration, he took less money so his team could win rings. They played in 4 Super Bowls and won three of them from 2014 on.

Who else has done that?

 

[crawhammer]

Your QB popularity list changes weekly depending on team results... except for Lamar Jackson for some reason, he never gets penalized no matter how bad he plays.

Well, of course, it changes. Results matter. Teams play, quarterbacks lead them, how well is usually the determining factor. Rankings get adjusted accordingly.

Can you explain how in the midst of his prime (34-35 years) one season removed from being the NFL MVP, Aaron Roger’s team only won 4 and 6 games the following two years…. then after a coaching change won 13 games three seasons in a row and he won two more MVP's?

Not that I want to embarrass you but I'll answer your question.

First, they won 7 and 6 games in those seasons, not 4 and 6.

Secondly, Rodgers was injured in 2017 when he missed 9 games, where the team went 3-6, and were 4-3 with Rodgers. The disparity in the record was specifically about QB performance...

Rodgers: 4-3, 16 TDs, 6 INTs, 97.2 passer rating
Hundley: 3-6, 9 TDs, 12 INTs, 70.6 passer rating

Can you explain how Deshaun Watson and Drew Brees put up the best statistical seasons of their careers and led the entire NFL in passing… but their teams won 4 and 7 games respectively?

Sure, I can explain.

2020 Texans had the worst running game in the NFL, their defense really sucked, and O'Brien was such a horrendous head coach that they thought they were better off with Romeo Crennel. How many things do you seriously want Watson to overcome? Sounds like Brady in Tampa Bay this season with the franchise crumbling around him. There's a limit or breaking point for even elite quarterbacks.

Which 7 win season are you referring to for Brees? He had 4 of them. You can't quote me ever saying Brees is a winner. Prolific passer, yes. However, this is another example of how much do you except a quarterback to overcome. None of those 7 win teams could run the ball or play defense at all. Sean Payton was all about putting on a passing game clinic while ignoring the other needs of the team. The only season they pulled off winning a Super Bowl came curtesy of one of Peyton Manning's many postseason chokes.

Coaching matters, team matters... if you look at the teams in the playoffs they aren't just the teams with the best QB's, they're the teams with the best players on offense, defense and special teams.

Newsflash... the best teams play in the conference title games and Super Bowl, and they have the best players all over their roster... at every position.

So every season the team with all stars at every position wins?

Who's the best quarterback in the NFL over the last 5 seasons? Mahomes: 5 conference championships & 3 Super Bowls. You think the Chiefs are that consistently successful because of their special teams?

The Chiefs are the best at two positions: QB & TE. That's not every position. They don't run the ball much. Their defense isn't that great, they gave up the most passing TDs in the NFL and have the 30th ranked red zone defense. Where are all those great players at every position?

Look, the NFL MVP is going to be Mahomes. The runner-up (if Mahomes doesn't win unanimously) will be Hurts. They're both in the Super Bowl.

 

[crawhammer]

Brady threw for 505 yards, 3 TD’s and lost.

But the better QB always wins… so Patriot fans can take comfort in that.

The better quarterback lost that game, not because he didn't play brilliantly, but because his head coach screwed him over.

 

[Noexcusesfornumber5]

How, did he tell Brady to let a pass go through his fingers or to let the other team strip the ball from him?

 

[crawhammer]

There are different tiers of QB, no doubt.

There have been 56 Super Bowls, so 112 starting quarterbacks.

I'll name all of the bums according to me:

Joe Namath
Joe Kapp
Billy Kilmer
Craig Martin
Vince Ferragamo
Tony Eason
Doug Williams
Jeff Hostetler
Stan Humphries
Trent Dilfer
Rex Grossman

That's 11. So 101 remaining and many of them were elite quarterbacks. I don't know but if I'm counting out elite gunners, or punters, or right guards, I don't think my list of elites would be too long.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Have you ever worked at the same company for twenty years? Plus his wife was from and wanted to live in Miami.

Brady was a large part of 6 rings, but that wouldn’t have happened anywhere else.

For two decades he played with the best defenses, best O-Lines, special teams and had good weapons around him.

Football isn’t simply he who has the best QB wins, regardless of fanboy drivel… if that were true Tom would have closer to 23 rings and Eli Manning wouldn’t have two.

What does this have to do with what I said?

 

[maust]

So... are you saying it's like the hot goalie leading his team to the Stanley Cup?

I understand what you mean with that value equivalence. In this context, it is certainly more apt than comparing any other sports position. I wonder how many folks give any thought to how comparable the positions can be in that regard. Doug Williams, Flacco and Rypien were more or less .500, mediocre journeyman QB's who caught Tim Thomas type fire at exactly the right times. Whereas Hostetler and Dilfer were more like Antti Niemi or Corey Crawford and were just along for the ride on teams with such stacked D's all they were required to do was not drive the bus off the road

 

[Wozzy]

The better quarterback lost that game, not because he didn't play brilliantly, but because his head coach screwed him over.

Yeah…. I’m sure it was the head coach and not their best defender in Donta Hightower, their 350 pound nose tackle Alan Branch, Jon Jones and Patrick Chung getting hurt.

But wait didn’t you tell us the best QB is what matters most anyhow?

 

[Wozzy]

Well, of course, it changes. Results matter. Teams play, quarterbacks lead them, how well is usually the determining factor. Rankings get adjusted accordingly.


Not that I want to embarrass you but I'll answer your question.

First, they won 7 and 6 games in those seasons, not 4 and 6.

Secondly, Rodgers was injured in 2017 when he missed 9 games, where the team went 3-6, and were 4-3 with Rodgers. The disparity in the record was specifically about QB performance...

Rodgers: 4-3, 16 TDs, 6 INTs, 97.2 passer rating
Hundley: 3-6, 9 TDs, 12 INTs, 70.6 passer rating


Sure, I can explain.

2020 Texans had the worst running game in the NFL, their defense really sucked, and O'Brien was such a horrendous head coach that they thought they were better off with Romeo Crennel. How many things do you seriously want Watson to overcome? Sounds like Brady in Tampa Bay this season with the franchise crumbling around him. There's a limit or breaking point for even elite quarterbacks.

Which 7 win season are you referring to for Brees? He had 4 of them. You can't quote me ever saying Brees is a winner. Prolific passer, yes. However, this is another example of how much do you except a quarterback to overcome. None of those 7 win teams could run the ball or play defense at all. Sean Payton was all about putting on a passing game clinic while ignoring the other needs of the team. The only season they pulled off winning a Super Bowl came curtesy of one of Peyton Manning's many postseason chokes.


So every season the team with all stars at every position wins?

Who's the best quarterback in the NFL over the last 5 seasons? Mahomes: 5 conference championships & 3 Super Bowls. You think the Chiefs are that consistently successful because of their special teams?

The Chiefs are the best at two positions: QB & TE. That's not every position. They don't run the ball much. Their defense isn't that great, they gave up the most passing TDs in the NFL and have the 30th ranked red zone defense. Where are all those great players at every position?

Look, the NFL MVP is going to be Mahomes. The runner-up (if Mahomes doesn't win unanimously) will be Hurts. They're both in the Super Bowl.

So in summation… QB’s are a small piece of what it takes for a team to win a ring.

And yeah, QB play is a big piece on the offensive side, but offense is only one phase in a sport with three.

Beyond that, this ^ entire meandering response above is a dancing around to prove a hypothesis from a teen fangirl gushing about Justin Bieber and calling him a god.