Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[crawhammer]

I'm completely fine with giving Brady more credit than Belichick for the dynasty as long as both get credit. Brady deserves more of the credit, imo.

We agree then.

What annoys me is how often the Brady people use this Brady vs Bill argument to denigrate Belichick. The people who post that Bill is a mediocre coach who should be fired usually cite the same stats you stated in your original post. I've seen a number of posts saying Bill is a mediocre coach without Brady, or that the methods/tactics the Patriots used during the dynasty to be successful no longer work without Tom. I think there are a lot of Pats fans that were hurt by Brady leaving, blame Belichick and never will forgive Bill for that.

I'm more upset with BB regarding SB 52, that rankles Brady fans more than anything, but we don't need to open that can of worms.

I recently listed my top 4 head coaches of the Super Bowl era. BB was on there. So he's not a mediocre head coach but his record as a head coach without Brady is bad. That's just a fact.

 

[crawhammer]

You're like some long lost Japanese soldier from WWII. Years in the jungle, can't fathom the war is over. Tom said it's a partnership. Bill says players win games. Anything else is just you continuing your diatribe. The two parties involved in the greatest dynasty the NFL has seen have settled it. There's no conflict.

Tom's being nice. For public consumption of his podcast. Bill is preaching the truth however.

 

[FCB02062]

the Belichick Bobos citing Brady's "own words" are the same people who take the media's narrative on everything hook, line, sinker. Pease, think for yourself people. What more do you need to see after this season? Bill the Coach/GM took a 10 win team that acquired BETTER TALENT for this season - and brought them straight into the dumpster of mediocrity. Since Brady left, Bill the Coach is a combined OFER vs top 15 quarterbacks. Name ONE even "good" quarterback that Bill the Coach's team has beaten since Brady left - ONE!!!!! What is the team's record after Thanksgiving? what is their record vs playoff teams? What is their record when the opponent score 23+ points? This guy's idiotic choice of Patricia and Judge WASTED a year of their first round pick qb's career under the "coveted" rookie contract.

can't wait for the Toucan Sam's Caveman meme...

 

[Steve102]

Tom's being nice. For public consumption of his podcast. Bill is preaching the truth however.

Even for you, that's a bad take.

 

[crawhammer]

Bill took over 3-13 and 5-11 teams with financial problems and made them playoff and SB contenders.

5-13 with Bledsoe. 14-3 with Brady. The rest is history.

Bill drafted, developed and played Tom and surrounded him with HoF, ProBowl and pro-caliber talent on both sides of the ball and great coaching staffs.

This maybe is mostly true. You're embellishing the surrounding talent part. And that early dynasty defense was built on some Parcells players (McGinest, Law, Johnson, Milloy and Bruschi).

Bill stayed and started a rebuilding process and was back in the playoffs 2 years later. He didn't jump to the 2021 Rams ala 2002 Jon Gruden to TB.

I guess I'm not as impressed or as optimistic as you are about the current team. I see a lot of spinning wheels or regression. Last season was a major **** up for BB. They have quite a big hole to dig themselves out of now. Bill's too old and the conference is too talented. He'll never coach another SB team.

Tom jumped to a team with talent, cap space and won a Super Bowl. Kudos to him for being 2021 version of 04 Curt Schilling.

Ouch! That's some harsh criticism of Tommy. Obviously I don't agree. I won't bore with another essay on how Brady transformed the worst franchise in professional sports history. But he did.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

We agree then.


I'm more upset with BB regarding SB 52, that rankles Brady fans more than anything, but we don't need to open that can of worms.

I recently listed my top 4 head coaches of the Super Bowl era. BB was on there. So he's not a mediocre head coach but his record as a head coach without Brady is bad. That's just a fact.

The bolded part is an example of you using Brady vs Belichick to say Belichick is bad. That's not discussing how Brady deserves more of the credit (which is what you suggested the real discussion was about two posts ago), that is using Brady's success to denigrate Bill.

You absolutely miss something when you just use the record. The COVID year the Pats finished 7-9 with the talent of a 4 win team, so just looking at the record and saying Belichick did a bad job is incorrect. Just like citing Bill's record his first year in New England as bad ignores how bad the team was that he inherited.

Personally, I don't think Brady has any place in the discussion of last year's team or of the team going forward. Especially because the only way he's brought up in that capacity is to paint Bill in a negative light.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Done.

Footnotes and context.

Bill took over 3-13 and 5-11 teams with financial problems and made them playoff and SB contenders.

Bill drafted, developed and played Tom and surrounded him with HoF, ProBowl and pro-caliber talent on both sides of the ball and great coaching staffs.

Tom jumped to a team with talent, cap space and won a Super Bowl. Kudos to him for being 2021 version of 04 Curt Schilling.

Bill stayed and started a rebuilding process and was back in the playoffs 2 years later. He didn't jump to the 2021 Rams ala 2002 Jon Gruden to TB.

I agree with everything you said except comparing Tom to Curt Schilling, no need for that. Curt's a piece of ****.

 

[crawhammer]

Even for you, that's a bad take.

I thought Tom was a phony cringey douchebag when he speaks? Let's not pretend that's not what some people have said about him. Now suddenly when he calls his time with a Bill a "partnership" we're taking it verbatim. I love it, one kumbaya podcast episode has resolved all grievances.

 

[Steve102]

I thought Tom was a phony cringey douchebag when he speaks? Let's not pretend that's not what some people have said about him. Now suddenly when he calls his time with a Bill a "partnership" we're taking it verbatim. I love it, one kumbaya podcast episode has resolved all grievances.

I never said that.

The underwear photo is cringey, tho. I could go my whole life without that.

 

[h0c2000]

I recently listed my top 4 head coaches of the Super Bowl era. BB was on there. So he's not a mediocre head coach but his record as a head coach without Brady is bad. That's just a fact.

I would say Bill's record without Brady is pedestrian and not bad. Rich Kotite with the Jets was bad. I'd compare Bill's last 3 years like Pete's run in NE.

 

[Rob0729]

toilet bowles flushed week 18 so had the starters remained in the game they would have won it. The Patriots didn't beat anyone with more than 9 wins this season. The Bears finished the season 0-10, their last win came in week 7 @NE. Look at the starting quarterbacks the Patriots beat over the last two seasons. Their schedule wasn't tough this season or last. There's no assuming any team wins any game when they're a .500 team for 3 seasons without a playoff win.

Ummm... Did 8-9 win the division or not? I said if the Pats replaced the Bucs in the division. And the only teams the Bucs beat with winning records were the Cowboys at the beginning if the season and the 9-8 Seahawks after they came down to earth. And perhaps you should look at all the QBs the Bucs beat last year.

 

[crawhammer]

The bolded part is an example of you using Brady vs Belichick to say Belichick is bad. That's not discussing how Brady deserves more of the credit (which is what you suggested the real discussion was about two posts ago), that is using Brady's success to denigrate Bill.

Belichick on the whole isn't bad. Far from it. I acknowledge he's one of the top head coaches of the Super Bowl era (probably #1). However, when discussing Brady vs Belichick it's more than fair to assess and compare what each has done without the other. Brady accomplished a lot more in less time (3 seasons). Belichick accomplished a lot less in more time (10 seasons). If the facts "denigrate" Bill then oh well. It is what it is.

You absolutely miss something when you just use the record. The COVID year the Pats finished 7-9 with the talent of a 4 win team, so just looking at the record and saying Belichick did a bad job is incorrect. Just like citing Bill's record his first year in New England as bad ignores how bad the team was that he inherited.

Most of all Belichick inherited a bad quarterback in New England. Once Mo Lewis took care of that, Belichick was able to accomplish some great things as a head coach.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not sure how this can be true, because according to Felger the cap is crap.

Well, Felger is a buffoon . So there is that..

 

[sb1]

Belichick on the whole isn't bad. Far from it. I acknowledge he's one of the top head coaches of the Super Bowl era (probably #1). However, when discussing Brady vs Belichick it's more than fair to assess and compare what each has done without the other. Brady accomplished a lot more in less time (3 seasons). Belichick accomplished a lot less in more time (10 seasons). If the facts "denigrate" Bill then oh well. It is what it is.


Most of all Belichick inherited a bad quarterback in New England. Once Mo Lewis took care of that, Belichick was able to accomplish some great things as a head coach.

I've seen bad QB's. Drew was not anywhere near the "bad" category.

Regarding Bill in Cleveland... IMO he wasn't ready back then for prime time as a head coach in this league.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree with everything you said except comparing Tom to Curt Schilling, no need for that. Curt's a piece of ****.

Agree Curt is a scumbag but the situation is the same.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Just for the record (one without the other):

Brady: 3 seasons, 3 playoff appearances, 2 division titles, 5 playoff wins, 1 Super Bowl championship

Belichick: 10 seasons, 2 playoff appearances, 0 division titles, 1 playoff win

Are you saying a great coach needs a great QB to win, wow, ground breaking stuff.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I've seen bad QB's. Drew was not anywhere near the "bad" category.

Regarding Bill in Cleveland... IMO he wasn't ready back then for prime time as a head coach in this league.

BB is the best coach of all time, his accomplishments are dismissed because of the way he treats the press. Everyone points to Cleveland as evidence that he is a product of TB12. The fact is that he took a bad team and built it into a playoff team before the owner torpedoed everything by moving to Baltimore. The same thing happened with the Pats for 20 years until the roster cycle and the cap forced a major rebuild. Clearly TB12 is the best QB ever who was a major factor in the continued success of the team. He would have helped keep the team in the playoffs during the current rebuild, he would not have made the team a true championship contender. Also clear is the fact that BB messed up with MP and JJ last year. I am looking forward to 2023 as the year that BB gets his mojo back.

 

[RobertWeathers]

5-13 with Bledsoe. 14-3 with Brady. The rest is history.

Bill was 16-15 each with Vinny Testaverde and Mac Jones. Are they better or worse than Drew?

This maybe is mostly true. You're embellishing the surrounding talent part. And that early dynasty defense was built on some Parcells players (McGinest, Law, Johnson, Milloy and Bruschi).

There were a few from Tuna as well as from Grier.

Then you have....

Seymour, Vrabel, Harrison, Roman, Pleasent, Warren, Wilfork, Colvin, Cox, Mankins, Compton, Izzo, Edwards, Patton, Light, Andruzzi, Hamilton, Smith, Washington, Graham, Koppen, Neal, Traylor, Dillon, Wilson, Poole,Green,Branch, Gay, Asante....

I guess I'm not as impressed or as optimistic as you are about the current team. I see a lot of spinning wheels or regression. Last season was a major **** up for BB. They have quite a big hole to dig themselves out of now. Bill's too old and the conference is too talented. He'll never coach another SB team.

They still made the playoffs. It's a metric you called out.

Ouch! That's some harsh criticism of Tommy. Obviously I don't agree. I won't bore with another essay on how Brady transformed the worst franchise in professional sports history. But he did.

How do you see that as a criticism? It's a fact. He was a FA. He went to a talented team with cap space which needed a QB. He picked the best situation for his career. He could have gone to a worse team and gone 8-8. If he did we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Tom's being nice. For public consumption of his podcast. Bill is preaching the truth however.

You really are Felger, admit it.

 

[203Pat]

Belichick on the whole isn't bad. Far from it. I acknowledge he's one of the top head coaches of the Super Bowl era (probably #1). However, when discussing Brady vs Belichick it's more than fair to assess and compare what each has done without the other. Brady accomplished a lot more in less time (3 seasons). Belichick accomplished a lot less in more time (10 seasons). If the facts "denigrate" Bill then oh well. It is what it is.


Most of all Belichick inherited a bad quarterback in New England. Once Mo Lewis took care of that, Belichick was able to accomplish some great things as a head coach.

Don't care for this Drew slander.