Does Belichick Last Beyond 2023, and What Needs to Happen?

[Kontradiction]

I get the point, but it's tough. I don't know how much you can stock you can take in a coach's first season, and when you take into account the direction the Browns were headed in and the start they were off to when Modell pulled out the rug on that, there's certainly some additional context there. If you want to total his record for 2020,2021 and 2022, I would say that's a fair criticism - basically around .500.

25-25. 25-26 including the playoff blowout. You can add context to these seasons as well, if you want. I’ll leave aside the elephant in the room and give you this - the only reasons the rebuild needed to happen is because BB’s drafts were anywhere from mediocre to terrible for 8 straight years. That’s his failure. He’s the GM. To his credit, things have seemed to turn around with the early returns in the 2021 draft looking positive. But we can’t give him credit when things look good and absolve him of blame when they aren’t.

But the people who quote prior to that I think is a little disingenuous. We see the talking heads do it all the time and Belichick weeded out the problem players here after 2000 and we all know how that turned out. I don't now many coaches around the league that go into a bad situation (which they're usually in, because the last guy got fired) and are able to clean it up and have a great year the first year. Yes, it happens, but it's rare.

Are you talking about the people who cite his time with the Giants? I agree that it’s disingenuous, if so. That wasn’t his team.

 

[Kontradiction]

That’s not the only way you can answer it. That’s just dodging the question. So I’ll ask it again…

Yes or no - BB’s overall record has been mediocre as a HC without Brady?

You can simply answer “yes” or you can answer “no,” then make the case. It sounds like you’re answering “yes,” then going on an excuse-making parade. But that’s just my assumption. I don’t want to assume, so a simple answer would work. Then we can move on to my original claim - the “lightning in a bottle” assertion in which you took issue.

@upstater1 go ahead and insult me if it helps you answer the question. Tee one up on me. I’m pretty sure I can take it and you have my word that I won’t fire back on you, personally, for it. Have at it.

 

[venecol]

I’d be fine with that as long as BB is given 2023 to finally fix the team and make them a competitor for the East again. If he fails, then given everything I said in the last post, the alternatives should be abundant.

It's too late. This team isn't winning the division in '23. The time to do it was '22. After the 10-7 season, this is what we should've done: Go ALL IN.

1. Load up w/ elite talent (WR1, CB1, DT, LB) during FAcy. Kick the cap hit down the road.
2. Hire the best OC/OL/QB coaches money could buy from the college/NFL ranks.
3. Take division back from BUF.

If that failed again, then we at least know why. Was it the QB, stiffer competition, still lack of talent? Instead, we went cheapo and now have zero answers.

 

[borg]

Again, same story. The guy still knows X's and O's better than the majority of active coaches

Based on recent years, what is the basis for this narrative?
If he is better, why do the majority of "inferior" coaches dominate NE down the stretch each of the past 3 season not to mention his recent record of getting stomped by quality teams?

Teflon Bill

 

[Ian]

Are you talking about the people who cite his time with the Giants? I agree that it’s disingenuous, if so. That wasn’t his team.

No, obviously he wasn't the head coach there. I mean the people that crap on him for his time in Cleveland, especially his last season, not taking into account the disaster created by Modell when they announced the move. He completely turned them around, got them to the postseason (and beat us), and they got off to a great start the next year after that before that mess happened. I thought the documentary gave some great insight to that, but a lot of the anti-Bill people tend to dismiss it as if it didn't matter.

 

[upstater1]

So stay with Bill until he dies regardless of the sub .500 record? Great plan you have there.

Laughable coming from 2 people recommending the guy who just lost 12 games!!!!!!!!!!

 

[All3Phases]

Who knows but what I do know is you also had JE11, Gronk, Slater, DMC, High, KVN, Gilly, Chung, Andrews, Develin and Flowers.

Incredible the amt of locker room authority figures who have walked out that door these last few years.

No wonder punks like Jack Jones are gettin all bratty.

I think the biggest thing was with the old patriots (brady), Bill could run the room way he wanted, because he knew it wouldn’t affect the on field product. They were good, no matter who was on the roster as long as it was Bill and Brady. Now without the latter, the product is middling, and guys get away with more. I think a good example is Bourne, how often was he loud and opinionated publicly this year? Does that fly in 2014 or 2006? Don’t think so. It’s just adapting

 

[venecol]

I think you could go through a lot of teams and realize that most team losses are relatively close. How many games could the raiders have won this year? They were in basically every game except the last

Yea, there's a reason you tease out of the 3 pt to 7 to range.

 

[Rob0729]

I will say this. If Belichick thinks Mac Jones isn't the answer putting a lot of the blame on the offense on Jones and decides to trade him, he could lose his job if Jones goes to another team and becomes a top 10 QB. Say Belichick trades Jones to Las Vegas and McDaniels turns Jones around and Jones gets 4,000 or so yards and 25-30 TDs with the weapons in Vegas, I think that could be the breaking point for Kraft.

Not saying this will happen, but Belichick could end up ending his career with the Patriots based on things outside of his control (at least after he traded away Mac Jones in this hypothetical).

 

[upstater1]

@upstater1 go ahead and insult me if it helps you answer the question. Tee one up on me. I’m pretty sure I can take it and you have my word that I won’t fire back on you, personally, for it. Have at it.

You exed out the great chunk of his coaching career!!!

The question answers itself, doesn't it?

It's 20 years. That's a VERY LONG time in NFL years. Your logic just seems ridiculous to me.

Except for those 20 years... Bill hasn't done much.

Uh--Brady has done as much as Trent Dilfer, except for those 20 years. Brady is 8-9 this year. Etc.

 

[PatsFan2]

I will say this. If Belichick thinks Mac Jones isn't the answer putting a lot of the blame on the offense on Jones and decides to trade him, he could lose his job if Jones goes to another team and becomes a top 10 QB. Say Belichick trades Jones to Las Vegas and McDaniels turns Jones around and Jones gets 4,000 or so yards and 25-30 TDs with the weapons in Vegas, I think that could be the breaking point for Kraft.

Not saying this will happen, but Belichick could end up ending his career with the Patriots based on things outside of his control (at least after he traded away Mac Jones in this hypothetical).

That will Never happen and I'm not a betting man.

 

[crawhammer]

So stay with Bill until he dies regardless of the sub .500 record? Great plan you have there.

That's a terrible plan but the Krafts have probably dug their heels in on clutching to the twilight of Bill's career after watching Brady reach countless milestones in another uniform.

 

[upstater1]

But the people who quote prior to that I think is a little disingenuous. We see the talking heads do it all the time and Belichick weeded out the problem players here after 2000 and we all know how that turned out. I don't now many coaches around the league that go into a bad situation (which they're usually in, because the last guy got fired) and are able to clean it up and have a great year the first year. Yes, it happens, but it's rare.

And one wonders if the quick fix leading to a 10-6 season in the past hurt them on the back end. Was their success sustained?

I don't know what's going to happen with the Bills, if they'll ever win a SB, BUT they are building a sustained model of excellence at least while Josh Allen is around. Their drafting is geared toward BPA, they are not just filling holes, they have coaching consistency.

They are not like the Rams. If they never win a Super Bowl, they can be criticized.

But if you don't build the team with that level of consistency, then success can be fleeting even if it comes quick.

 

[venecol]

Laughable coming from 2 people recommending the guy who just lost 12 games!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not recommending anyone in particular so have no clue what you're talking about, but enjoy your laugh, it's healthy.

 

[Steve102]

Bill's resume is irrelevant. His record in the last three seasons is the only thing that matters. There are a dozen younger coaches with better records than Bill. Bill's knowledge of foitball history isn't winning us the games we need to win when we need to win them.

You mean his customers? Yea, probably not. What business worries about their customers to be succesful.

Do you imagine they care about getting a good google review or a 5 star rating? Sorry, I am not trying to be a d!ck to you. I don't think they give two chits about people b!tching on the internet/twitterverse. I don't think that's unique to any NFL team. As long as the coffers are full, they don't care.

 

[Rob0729]

That will Never happen and I'm not a betting man.

Who knows? He has shown enough that with everything right around him, he can play really well. See the first half of the Bills' game. With the Raiders' receivers and McDaniels, who knows what his ceiling is.

 

[venecol]

I will say this. If Belichick thinks Mac Jones isn't the answer putting a lot of the blame on the offense on Jones and decides to trade him, he could lose his job if Jones goes to another team and becomes a top 10 QB. Say Belichick trades Jones to Las Vegas and McDaniels turns Jones around and Jones gets 4,000 or so yards and 25-30 TDs with the weapons in Vegas, I think that could be the breaking point for Kraft.

Not saying this will happen, but Belichick could end up ending his career with the Patriots based on things outside of his control (at least after he traded away Mac Jones in this hypothetical).

Hahaha, this sounds so familiar, yet he still has his job. Lol

 

[Kontradiction]

You exed out the great chunk of his coaching career!!!

The question answers itself, doesn't it?

It's 20 years. That's a VERY LONG time in NFL years. Your logic just seems ridiculous to me.

Except for those 20 years... Bill hasn't done much.

Uh--Brady has done as much as Trent Dilfer, except for those 20 years. Brady is 8-9 this year. Etc.

I didn’t. I gave him credit for those years, but the fact remains - he had a lethal advantage at the most important position - a player he thought highly enough of to draft in the 6th round who ended up being the GOAT and only missing one entire season. If BB is still “irreplaceable” at 71 (your original question), shouldn’t his record be better than mediocre in the rest of his time as a HC? How about from 2020-2022? Shouldn’t he have won a playoff game by now while his counterpart won a Super Bowl?

 

[upstater1]

25-25. 25-26 including the playoff blowout. You can add context to these seasons as well, if you want. I’ll leave aside the elephant in the room and give you this - the only reasons the rebuild needed to happen is because BB’s drafts were anywhere from mediocre to terrible for 8 straight years. That’s his failure. He’s the GM. To his credit, things have seemed to turn around with the early returns in the 2021 draft looking positive. But we can’t give him credit when things look good and absolve him of blame when they aren’t.



Are you talking about the people who cite his time with the Giants? I agree that it’s disingenuous, if so. That wasn’t his team.

What 8 years? I count bad drafting for 6.

Now 6 is a long time.

BUT if you're also trading picks to add veterans to a championship level team, if you lose 4 prime draft picks to Deflategate, if you're always picking at the bottom of the 1st round, bad drafts can happen.

Anyway, I count 6.

Not to even mention the fact that some of those drafts were so long ago (2014) that the vast majority of players from then have retired. James White was a hit, but he's gone. A bad 2014 draft is not impacting this team right now.

Go look at the 2014 2nd round. Outside of Davante Adams and Joel Bitonio, no one else is contributing. 32 guys, only 2 are contributors.

 

[upstater1]

I'm not recommending anyone in particular so have no clue what you're talking about, but enjoy your laugh, it's healthy.

A whole host of you are talking about McVay