Mac Jones' Last Five Games - 2022 vs 2021

[Ian]

I think you're overstating "a lot of people thought Brady was done." There were no signs of slippage in his play from a physical and mechanical standpoint. By the end of that 2019 season the offense was just garbage around Brady.

I would agree with this. His tenure being over had more to do with the whispers, his house being on the market, and his demeanor off the field. He was still 7th in passing yards and played pretty well. They just had no talent and they tried to fix it with Antonio Brown until that all fell apart. Had he not had all that negative press, it makes you wonder if they could have had enough to maybe go a little farther, but they definitely faced an uphill battle that year.

 

[Ian]

I don't know if he would be pretty good. For the guys watching the game film, the problem with Mac having the extra beat has to do with receivers not getting open or looking back for the ball more than Mac's decision making.

Both Jones and Burrow's average time to throw last year was 2.4 seconds and this year they are both are at 2.2 seconds. They seem to be just as quick. Of course this counts both time to release and/or pressure.

Not talking about his release time, talking about Burrow seeing a tight window and having the arm to fire it in there. He's got the arm to have the confidence to do that. Mac doesn't and he knows it, so he (smartly) doesn't throw it.

But Burrow would probably have been able to convert some of those opportunities and let's not kid anyone, he's a great player so it's not a fair comparison. But I can't say he wouldn't be better with this group. He definitely would be. Just not as productive as he's been surrounded by their current group of players.

 

[crawhammer]

I would agree with this. His tenure being over had more to do with the whispers, his house being on the market, and his demeanor off the field. He was still 7th in passing yards and played pretty well. They just had no talent and they tried to fix it with Antonio Brown until that all fell apart. Had he not had all that negative press, it makes you wonder if they could have had enough to maybe go a little farther, but they definitely faced an uphill battle that year.

Did you see highlights of this past weekend's game? He's throwing the ball as good as ever. The Bucs have been a mess for a variety of reasons this season and would be dead in the water if not for the wild comebacks.

 

[Toofy]

I don't know if he would be pretty good. For the guys watching the game film, the problem with Mac having the extra beat has to do with receivers not getting open or looking back for the ball more than Mac's decision making.

Both Jones and Burrow's average time to throw last year was 2.4 seconds and this year they are both are at 2.2 seconds. They seem to be just as quick. Of course this counts both time to release and/or pressure.

It works at 2.2 when you have Higgins and jamarr chase. Our wide receivers take 4 seconds to run routes thanks to Matt Patricia . Burrow would have probably helped us beat Vikings or bears but he would have only slightly marginally improved stats not something which is otherworldly with this cast of misfits on offensive line and Offensive coaching.


Mac might be a bust but this season cannot be used to gauge him . It's super unfair . It's like asking me botany questions in a exam when I have prepared for calculus .

 

[venecol]

Is this true? Damn.

 

[crawhammer]

It works at 2.2 when you have Higgins and jamarr chase. Our wide receivers take 4 seconds to run routes thanks to Matt Patricia . Burrow would have probably helped us beat Vikings or bears but he would have only slightly marginally improved stats not something which is otherworldly with this cast of misfits on offensive line and Offensive coaching.

You need to watch some Joe Burrow tape.

Mac might be a bust but this season cannot be used to gauge him . It's super unfair . It's like asking me botany questions in a exam when I have prepared for calculus .

That's not how it works. He's got Belichick, he's got good WRs, he's got a very good running game, he's got a good defense... he's had a bad season. It counts.

 

[Toofy]

You need to watch some Joe Burrow tape.


That's not how it works. He's got Belichick, he's got good WRs, he's got a very good running game, he's got a good defense... he's had a bad season. It counts.

I did. I am just saying situation is different . Mac has made some mistakes . But more often than not he is put in a position of failure.

I agree Mac is inferior to burrow . But this staff can make burrow look mortal and maybe a slight upgrade over Mac not the world beater or top QB look that he gives while playing for bengals. That's how bad we have become on offense , we can immediately pull the best of QBs as well with our coaching, slow wr speed and offensive coaching .

Mac would be a top 10-15 QB if we had a decent OLine and Off. coaching and with our stellar defense could have competed . Now it's all moot.

 

[venecol]

Every fan base in the NFL thinks their team has the worse OL and their OC sucks ass. Fact

 

[venecol]

I remember during TC all the positive, happy posters saying that Belichick was an offensive genius. They claimed that he spent years going over game film with Brady, a QB whisperer of sorts.

What happened?

 

[Tunescribe]

That's not how it works. He's got Belichick, he's got good WRs, he's got a very good running game, he's got a good defense... he's had a bad season. It counts.

BB didn't design or run the offense. Patricia did and created a fiasco, in the process rendering incomplete any reliably objective assessment of Mac's potential as a second-year pro.

I remember during TC all the positive, happy posters saying that Belichick was an offensive genius. They claimed that he spent years going over game film with Brady, a QB whisperer of sorts.

What happened?

That's nuts. You either are being snide or confusing patsfans.com with someplace else. BB's rep is on the defensive side of the ball, from the documentaries I saw his film work with Brady focused on breaking down opponents' defensive tendencies.

 

[venecol]

That's nuts. You either are being snide or confusing patsfans.com with someplace else. BB's rep is on the defensive side of the ball, from the documentaries I saw his film work with Brady focused on breaking down opponents' defensive tendencies.

Oh no, there were definitely posters calling Belichick a QB whisperer. Too lazy to find the posts. I'm sure, @crawhammer remembers it.

 

[crawhammer]

I remember during TC all the positive, happy posters saying that Belichick was an offensive genius. They claimed that he spent years going over game film with Brady, a QB whisperer of sorts.

What happened?

Oh no, there were definitely posters calling Belichick a QB whisperer. Too lazy to find the posts. I'm sure, @crawhammer remembers it.

Word for word accurate.

 

[crawhammer]

I did. I am just saying situation is different . Mac has made some mistakes . But more often than not he is put in a position of failure.

I agree Mac is inferior to burrow . But this staff can make burrow look mortal and maybe a slight upgrade over Mac not the world beater or top QB look that he gives while playing for bengals. That's how bad we have become on offense , we can immediately pull the best of QBs as well with our coaching, slow wr speed and offensive coaching .

Mac would be a top 10-15 QB if we had a decent OLine and Off. coaching and with our stellar defense could have competed . Now it's all moot.

I'll say this, Mac would have been better this season with McDaniels. Judge and Patricia are clowns. However, again, I'm putting that on the guy who says he's ultimately responsible for everything.

Hopefully Mac will get a better opportunity next season with a real high quality OC with proven experience. In the meantime he's had a bad season, whoever you want to blame.

 

[crawhammer]

BB didn't design or run the offense. Patricia did and created a fiasco, in the process rendering incomplete any reliably objective assessment of Mac's potential as a second-year pro.

You think Bill let Patricia "design" the offense? You mean like independently and from scratch? Where on Earth was Bill when this was going on? And what was Judge doing? Dunkin runs?

 

[Ian]

Good read from Curran. He includes the touchdown totals here during the Belichick era. They have 28. They finished with 28 for the season through 16 games back in 2000, his first season. Hopefully, they'll obviously add to that total Sunday.

Curran: Pats need an extraordinary performance to upset Buffalo on Sunday

The Bills are a better team than the Patriots and, for many reasons, Sunday means everything for Buffalo. Therefore, it’ll take an extraordinary effort from New England to pull off an upset and secure a playoff spot, writes our Tom E. Curran.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[crawhammer]

Good read from Curran. He includes the touchdown totals here during the Belichick era. They have 28. They finished with 28 for the season through 16 games back in 2000, his first season. Hopefully, they'll obviously add to that total Sunday.

Curran: Pats need an extraordinary performance to upset Buffalo on Sunday

The Bills are a better team than the Patriots and, for many reasons, Sunday means everything for Buffalo. Therefore, it’ll take an extraordinary effort from New England to pull off an upset and secure a playoff spot, writes our Tom E. Curran.

www.nbcsports.com

You like Curran's work? Just curious. I don't always agree with him but I generally respect his point of view. His partner Phil Perry is very good too.

Curran's not too optimistic about Sunday. He basically thinks the Patriots have to play their perfect game while Buffalo plays their worst for the Patriots to have a chance. He's probably right.

 

[Tunescribe]

You think Bill let Patricia "design" the offense? You mean like independently and from scratch?

Yes, they DID start from scratch because McDaniels' playbook and precision timing system were too complex for Patricia and Judge to learn sans prior experience. That's where all this training camp B.S. about "simplifying the offense" came from -- it was for the coaches' sake, not the players. Mac already was a season into learning McDaniels' more cerebral approach which gave him LOS audible leeway. That arguably was his strength and got taken away because it was beyond what Patricia/Judge could accommodate.

BB put the offense fully in Patricia's hands. The only directive was implementing the Shanahan zone run-blocking scheme that didn't work out because (A) they didn't have the right OL personnel for it and (B) it turned out taking longer to master than they had time for. Patricia had his own ideas re. vertical 50-50 balls and that didn't work out either. Patricia was in WAY over his head and so was Judge as QB coach. The entire offense was slipshod from day one and never got better.

Where on Earth was Bill when this was going on? And what was Judge doing? Dunkin runs?

After Patricia's system was implemented there was no turning back, once the season started they had to go with it. As BB explained, changing it would require too much heavy lifting in-season on top of game-planning for opponents. Judge was QB coach and might as well have been doing Dunkin' runs for all he could contribute.

 

[venecol]

Yes, they DID start from scratch because McDaniels' playbook and precision timing system were too complex for Patricia and Judge to learn sans prior experience. That's where all this training camp B.S. about "simplifying the offense" came from -- it was for the coaches' sake, not the players. Mac already was a season into learning McDaniels' more cerebral approach which gave him LOS audible leeway. That arguably was his strength and got taken away because it was beyond what Patricia/Judge could accommodate.

BB put the offense fully in Patricia's hands. The only directive was implementing the Shanahan zone run-blocking scheme that didn't work out because (A) they didn't have the right OL personnel for it and (B) it turned out taking longer to master than they had time for. Patricia had his own ideas re. vertical 50-50 balls and that didn't work out either. Patricia was in WAY over his head and so was Judge as QB coach. The entire offense was slipshod from day one and never got better.



After Patricia's system was implemented there was no turning back, once the season started they had to go with it. As BB explained, changing it would require too much heavy lifting in-season. Judge was QB coach and might as well have been doing Dunkin' runs for all he could contribute.

Although a lot of this is true, there are some things that need clarification.

1. The Patriots did not scrap their entire playbook and start from scratch. They simplified the terminology, yes. They simplified the myriad of routes, yes. But it was from the same playbook Bill has been using for decades. Hunter Henry confirmed this: "it's the same playbook."
2. Bill Belichick was 100% involved in the offensive schemes. We saw it during TC, him personally working with the offense and spending more time with them than the D. This was noted by Reiss and almost every reporter out there.
3. Once the season began, Bill continued to be involved with the offense. Again, we witnessed it and it was reported as such.
4. Correct on the changes (OZB, more Vertical passes) but there was a reason for doing this. Bill realized that to compete w/ BUF, MIA, KC, CIN, he needed to get more explosive plays out of the offense. Mac was a part of this change in offensive play selection. He had input. He said so numerous times. They incorporated aspects he liked (shotgun, rpo, vertical passes, etc.). The results were not good. Too many TOs.
5. The offense production has improved recently. Still anemic but it has slowly improved. I'm still not convinced Bill moves on from Patricia. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Rob0729]

Not talking about his release time, talking about Burrow seeing a tight window and having the arm to fire it in there. He's got the arm to have the confidence to do that. Mac doesn't and he knows it, so he (smartly) doesn't throw it.

But Burrow would probably have been able to convert some of those opportunities and let's not kid anyone, he's a great player so it's not a fair comparison. But I can't say he wouldn't be better with this group. He definitely would be. Just not as productive as he's been surrounded by their current group of players.

I don't think Burrow's arm is significantly better than Jones. It is better, but two years ago there were people questioning Burrow's arm strength much like people have with Jones. Burrows is not a really strong armed QB. And if you have been watching the last month or so, Jones has vastly improved on velocity and accuracy on his intermediate and deep ball passing.

But I think you are thinking there may be opportunities that aren't there. I don't study the game film, but I have listened and watched people who do from Kurt Warner to Lazar to Bedard who are saying that a lot of the problems are receivers are slow on their routes and not looking back for the ball when they are supposed to and there are spacing issues that hurt receivers to get things open. I think even the top QBs would struggle in this offense. Obviously not as much as Jones has, but they would have down seasons.

Again, Burrow would do better in this offense than Jones has, no doubt. But I am guessing he wouldn't do as well as you think he would.

 

[crawhammer]

I don't think Burrow's arm is significantly better than Jones. It is better, but two years ago there were people questioning Burrow's arm strength much like people have with Jones. Burrows is not a really strong armed QB. And if you have been watching the last month or so, Jones has vastly improved on velocity and accuracy on his intermediate and deep ball passing.

But I think you are thinking there may be opportunities that aren't there. I don't study the game film, but I have listened and watched people who do from Kurt Warner to Lazar to Bedard who are saying that a lot of the problems are receivers are slow on their routes and not looking back for the ball when they are supposed to and there are spacing issues that hurt receivers to get things open. I think even the top QBs would struggle in this offense. Obviously not as much as Jones has, but they would have down seasons.

Again, Burrow would do better in this offense than Jones has, no doubt. But I am guessing he wouldn't do as well as you think he would.

Burrow is an exceptionally talented quarterback. Only Mahomes and Allen can be rated higher and it's really close. Give the man the respect he deserves. At this point in their careers, Burrow rates much higher than Mac. It's not even remotely a discussion.