Mac Jones last two weeks

[captain stone]

Yes, because 4-10 record with more talent than the Patriots screams great coach.

He's > Billy is now.

 

[crawhammer]

I think a point that is not really talk about is that I think Josh covered Mac limitations well and in my opinion made Mac look better than what he really is. Last year Josh was holding Mac hands and I think this year they expected Mac to play QB. After the first 3 games they saw that he couldn’t do it and started to hold his hands again after the Chicago game.

I don’t think it’s a regression, it’s just that the coaching staff is not able to hide his weaknesses.

I also think that Mac attitude is questionable.

I honestly think that with Matt Patricia as an OC the best QB for this team was Zappe. Not because I think Zappe is the next Drew Brees or that he is better than Mac skill wise but because I think that Zappe works better with Matt Patricia than Mac. Because he has no a priori about Patricia and don’t question the plays and will try to make it work regardless of the play while Mac is questioning everything and think that’s not how it should be done. And I think it showed during games. The games were the offense looked the more « patriot like » and functional were the two games Zappe started.

Is that really part of it? Patricia and Zappe work better together than Patricia and Jones? Or is Zappe just a better quarterback this season? Patricia is a bad OC, I think most agree on that. Generally speaking I think one quarterback would have to be much better than the other to cover for the poor coaching and play-calling. At this point I don't think anyone could conclude Zappe is significantly better than Mac. So it's hard to say exactly what's going on but I agree the offense looked more functional with Zappe.

One of Zappe's starts came against Detriot's swiss cheese pass defense so Mac probably could have played equally well there. The other was against Cleveland who has an average pass defense... Zappe had the best game of the season for a NE QB in that one.

Bottom line is Zappe was really good in 2 of 2 starts. Mac has been really good in 1 of 11 starts. I'm not a rocket scientist like Patricia but I pretty good at simple math.

 

[ashley]

the offense looked more functional with Zappe.

I would agree with this statement if we didn't see Zappe in the second half against the Bears, where he looked lost, threw a pick 6 and our offense stalled. Personally, right now I think it's the OC and the OL.

 

[Ian]

Bottom line is Zappe was really good in 2 of 2 starts. Mac has been really good in 1 of 11 starts. I'm not a rocket scientist like Patricia but I pretty good at simple math.

(Sigh) ... I just can't...and I'm not even going to attempt it.

 

[crawhammer]

Clearly Mac's fault. It's his job to get everyone on the same page. I assume a play was called in the huddle, he changes it at the line but several of his players are confused with what he wants. Again, how is this on the coaches? Are we to believe that Mac has to be taught how to change plays?

Look, the coaching hasn't been ideal. Mac has played poorly this season. Both can be true.

Mostly agree. However, I think Mac's contention is the plays aren't getting called in fast enough so on the back end it's limiting Mac's time to efficiently change the play at the line. I think it's very likely Patricia's complete lack of experience calling offensive plays has slowed down the entire operation. More evidence that Belichick made a colossal mistake here.

 

[PatsFan2]

I would agree with this statement if we didn't see Zappe in the second half against the Bears, where he looked lost, threw a pick 6 and our offense stalled. Personally, right now I think it's the OC and the OL.

I don't like the indictment on Zappe for that Chicago game Justin Fields tore our Defense a new on a career night for him. We wasn't going to win that game and his batted down passes shouldn't be the end all for Zappe. Our temporary starter gets balls batted down too. I see a lot of QB's Zappe's size who are effective I can't wait for next year.

 

[Rob0729]

Troy Brown deserves blame too. I love Troy. He is one of my all time favorites, but I question if he is a good coach. Kurt Warner pointed out in the video review of the Vikes game that players were not looking back for the ball. Three games later and that issue isn’t corrected. My guess is that it has been an issue much longer than the Vikings game.

I forgot that Dan Orlovsky pointed out about the receivers not looking back for the ball and the horrible spacing of the receivers in mid-November. So this has been a year long problem which Belichick, Patricia, and Troy haven't fixed this. Keyshawn directly blames the coaching for this.

 

[crawhammer]

I would agree with this statement if we didn't see Zappe in the second half against the Bears, where he looked lost, threw a pick 6 and our offense stalled. Personally, right now I think it's the OC and the OL.

55% on Belichick, Patricia and Judge
28% on Mac
17% other

The offense was electric on Zappe's first two drives of the Chicago game. It went in the toilet thereafter. Belichick completely botched the plan for that game... the idea of shuffling the quarterbacks was bad and the results were worse. The worst lost of the season in my opinion because Chicago isn't any good right now... they're 1-10 in their last 11 games.

(Sigh) ... I just can't...and I'm not even going to attempt it.

Is this better?... Mac was really bad in 6 (@PIT, BAL, CHI, @NYJ, NYJ, @LVR) of 11 starts. Honestly, I'm giving him @MIN (the worst defense in the NFL) as his one really good start. We don't have to dissect every game log but what other 2 starts would you classify as really good? I'm just trying to figure out if you think Mac has more high quality starts than Zappe (who has had 82% less opportunities).

 

[Ian]

I don't like the indictment on Zappe for that Chicago game

Yeah, but it goes both ways, and you can't cherry-pick the parts that favor an argument. Zappe went 7-of-12 (58.3%) with 2 interceptions in the 4th QTR and was 9-of-16 (56.3%) overall in the second half. It is what it is. But in fairness, he was also under constant duress, and it's tough to operate that way. They also kept an extra tight end in there for him a fair mount in the two games prior, which explained why he had more time. And I'm assuming since Mac practiced to be the starter that week, the game plan probably didn't include that.

At the same time, those same offensive line problems have been an issue for Mac for much of the season. However, Sunday, it wasn't the case, and it was just a really bad performance (Mac was 5-of-16 in the second half [31.3%] - and 3-of-11 in the 4th QTR [27.3%], albeit he at least didn't turn it over). But Mac has shown that if he has time, he's been able to execute. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened very often this season and like @ashley and others have pointed out, they definitely need to prioritize the OL this offseason.

 

[PatsFan2]

I forgot that Dan Orlovsky pointed out about the receivers not looking back for the ball and the horrible spacing of the receivers in mid-November. So this has been a year long problem which Belichick, Patricia, and Troy haven't fixed this. Keyshawn directly blames the coaching for this.

While we're at it FIRE! every Coach on Offense except for the RB's Coach. This hire from within BB guys BS have to stop poor Coaching all around get and pay real people and hold them accountable. This horrible Coaching can't get a guy like Jonnu Smith who should be a mismatch on paper going unbelievable.

 

[crawhammer]

I forgot that Dan Orlovsky pointed out about the receivers not looking back for the ball and the horrible spacing of the receivers in mid-November. So this has been a year long problem which Belichick, Patricia, and Troy haven't fixed this. Keyshawn directly blames the coaching for this.

On that first play... who's that in the right flat?... Jonnu? He's WIDE OPEN for a big gain... seems like Mac could have anticipated that throw.

 

[Rob0729]

On that first play... who's that in the right flat?... Jonnu? He's WIDE OPEN for a big gain... seems like Mac could have anticipated that throw.

Would have been great to hit a wide open Jonnu in the back of the helmet because the moron didn't look back for the ball. Again, did you ever listen to Orlovsky? If Jonnu is not looking back for the football, he isn't open even if he is open. You cannot throw to a guy four yards away from you if he isn't looking back for the ball. Why can't you guys get this concept? Jonnu didn't look back for the ball until after the play broke down.

 

[crawhammer]

I forgot that Dan Orlovsky pointed out about the receivers not looking back for the ball and the horrible spacing of the receivers in mid-November. So this has been a year long problem which Belichick, Patricia, and Troy haven't fixed this. Keyshawn directly blames the coaching for this.

Um, the second play, the one receiver who Orlovsky incidentally says is looking back for the ball is WIDE OPEN. He also says this receiver is "2 yards" down the field which is only incorrect by 200%.

 

[crawhammer]

Would have been great to hit a wide open Jonnu in the back of the helmet because the moron didn't look back for the ball. Again, did you ever listen to Orlovsky? If Jonnu is not looking back for the football, he isn't open even if he is open. You cannot throw to a guy four yards away from you if he isn't looking back for the ball. Why can't you guys get this concept?

Instead of standing there like a statue, Mac should have rolled out to the right (to a wide open space) where he easily could have dumped it off to Jonnu for a big gain. Lack of awareness and anticipation on Mac's part.

 

[PatsFan2]

Yeah, but it goes both ways, and you can't cherry-pick the parts that favor an argument. Zappe went 7-of-12 (58.3%) with 2 interceptions in the 4th QTR and was 9-of-16 (56.3%) overall in the second half. It is what it is. But in fairness, he was also under constant duress, and it's tough to operate that way. They also kept an extra tight end in there for him a fair mount in the two games prior, which explained why he had more time. And I'm assuming since Mac practiced to be the starter that week, the game plan probably didn't include that.

At the same time, those same offensive line problems have been an issue for Mac for much of the season. However, Sunday, it wasn't the case, and it was just a really bad performance (Mac was 5-of-16 in the second half [31.3%] - albeit he at least didn't turn it over). But Mac has shown that if he has time, he's been able to execute. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened very often this season and like @ashley and others have pointed out, they definitely need to prioritize the OL this offseason.

Ian: sometimes a persons body language is quite telling that's why I have no faith in Mac. You always need a QB in this league: I just don't feel Mac is the guy. IF a QB some how falls to us in the upcoming Draft I am sure it will be tempting.

 

[Betterthanmost]

I am most disappointed with BB, I thought he actually had a plan for the season. After what I have seen so far, there was no actual ****ing plan. Grateful for all he has done in the past but can't have this **** next season. If he puts out this terrible coaching job again, he should be on the hot seat in 2024 if he still wants to coach.
Willing to go as far to say that if he brings Patricia back as the offense, he should be on the hot seat in 2023.

 

[Rob0729]

Instead of standing there like a statue, Mac should have rolled out to the right (to a wide open space) where he easily could have dumped it off to Jonnu for a big gain. Lack of awareness and anticipation on Mac's part.

Yes, I get it. It is always Jones' fault. Watch the play again. He would have ran Wynn's back if he rolled to his right. And he was standing in the end zone. He rolls right where there defenders right there, he risks getting a safety.

 

[Ian]

Ian: sometimes a persons body language is quite telling that's why I have no faith in Mac. You always need a QB in this league: I just don't feel Mac is the guy. IF a QB some how falls to us in the upcoming Draft I am sure it will be tempting.

I get it. You don't like him, and others don't either, which is fine. But given time, this will all play out one way or the other.

Zappe's under contract for three more years, and it's entirely possible he's starting at this time next season. It's also entirely possible they bring in a new OC, fix the OL, reallocate the $$ to adding a top target, and speedsters like Thornton and Strong take a step forward. If all of that happens and Mac thrives, great. If he doesn't, they'll at least have set up a foundation for Zappe or somebody else, and if nothing else, we'll have a chance to be better than we are right now. Which is all anybody wants anyway.

 

[PatsFan2]

I am most disappointed with BB, I thought he actually had a plan for the season. After what I have seen so far, there was no actual ****ing plan. Grateful for all he has done in the past but can't have this **** next season. If he puts out this terrible coaching job again, he should be on the hot seat in 2024 if he still wants to coach.
Willing to go as far to say that if he brings Patricia back as the offense, he should be on the hot seat in 2023.

The Patriots' are not really paying *Patricia and Judge* this year because their old Teams are paying them *Failed HC experiments*. I am pretty sure BB can cut ties with both next year.

 

[crawhammer]

I am most disappointed with BB, I thought he actually had a plan for the season. After what I have seen so far, there was no actual ****ing plan. Grateful for all he has done in the past but can't have this **** next season. If he puts out this terrible coaching job again, he should be on the hot seat in 2024 if he still wants to coach.

He had a plan. It didn't work. The question now is can he fix it? And is he willing to take the appropriate measures? The first being firing Patricia and Judge. And apparently Troy Brown too. And maybe anyone whose last name rhymes with elichick.