Mac Jones last two weeks

[everlong]

This team is just so broken in so many different ways I don't think you can place all the blame on one person, unit or coach. When it's not the OL it's the receivers or the QB. When they finally get things going it's the discipline taking stupid penalties. When we score a TD the coaches take a Rex Ryan timeout or call the plays in late causing us to waste our timeouts or cause a delay of game. We spend more money on special teams than any other team and the product is crap. We are one of the teams we laughed at during the dynasty year.

Now all that said, IMO the #1 problem on this team all year has been the OL. Some people want to put it all on Patricia and others on Jones. I think the OL has made it really hard to evaluate either because they're limiting the offense.

But the OL has not been the main flaw the last two weeks. The play calling has started out really conservative and as confidence in the OL grew they've opened up the playbook. Hell, they were actually throwing in the red zone against the Raiders. Against Arizona Mac was OK. I'm not going to say he was great but he had a fighting chance and looked OK. He missed some throws. Against Vegas he was god awful and held this team back. He's missing open receivers like Agholor who would have scored on that deep ball and Meyers on the seam which would have been a big gain. He's putting the ball in the wrong location constantly. The Agholor slant on the goal line is a TD is he puts it low and into his body or back shoulder but he puts it right where the CB can break it up.

If the OL continues to block and if that allows the play calling to not be as predictable and Mac plays more like the AZ game they will have a shot in each of their final three games. Now that said I kind of hope they lose out so we get higher picks and the organization is forced to re-evaluate how they're doing business right now.

 

[PatsFan2]

I have said this year he hasn't gone through his progressions like he did last year. Don't put words in my mouth. I am in agreement with Kurt Warner that he was good at going through his progressions last year and if anything he rushed them at times, but this year he isn't doing it. A portion of that is on the offense itself because with it being a simplified offense, I think it is designed for the QB to make a throw off the first or second read. But doesn't mean it is all on the offense or Patricia.

Right now Jones is broken and Belichick and Patricia broke him. You can argue another QB might have been able to overcome the obstacles put before him or at least weathered it better, but Jones was set up to fail this year. I look at him and his situation this year and it was basically what Trevor Lawrence faced last year. Lawrence was a wreck last year and is just finally starting to come into his potential. I don't think Jones has the potential of Lawrence, but with a good situation next year, he could be an exponetially better player.

I think Mac Jones is who is he wasn't very good at the end of last year remember we backed into the Playoffs. Hey Arizona moved on from Josh Rosen after a year if I remember correctly. I think the Patriots do something similar with Mac. I don't see a reclamation project in him here: weak arm no pocket presence and bad mechanics. Not the makings of a Starting QB the jury has come in.

 

[PatsFan2]

Jimmy G has shown that even after many many years in the league, he crumbles under pressure.

I would still take Jimmy G over Mac Jones 24/7. There is no comparison here even David Carr is light years better than Jones that's how far Mac Jones have fallen after a year.

 

[PatsFan2]

Who knows what the plan was/is. It's just been such a bizarre year. I sort of can't believe we're in Week 16 and still have three games to go...can only imagine what craziness is still ahead of us.

Hope we don't see this the next two weeks.

Mac has a way of bringing the best out of Patriot fans.

 

[Ian]

Hope don't see this the next two weeks.

Mac has way of bringing the best out of Patriot fans.

Yeah...I've seen a bunch of posts like this with quick one-liners and I know we had a conversation about this, but I need you to tone that down a little, please

 

[upstater1]

I would still take Jimmy G over Mac Jones 24/7. There is no comparison here even David Carr is light years better than Jones that's how far Mac Jones have fallen after a year.

After watching Carr this week, I'd say no.

I don't blame the Raiders meltdown on Josh as much as Carr.

Look, we're blasting Mac Jones deservedly for ignoring multiple wide open receivers. Carr not only cowered in the face of the rush, but Carr ignored 2x as many open WRs as Mac did. AND Carr had 3 bonfide targets out there including the best WR in the league.

I'm sorry, Carr is a veteran who should be playing much better. I would not trade Carr for Mac Jones. With Mac I could maybe get a 3rd rounder for him; no one will give you more than a 5th for Carr. He is beyond awful.

Brady knows good QBing and he was right when he said, "You're sticking with that $#%^%$&????"

 

[lancerman]

I would still take Jimmy G over Mac Jones 24/7. There is no comparison here even David Carr is light years better than Jones that's how far Mac Jones have fallen after a year.

Jimmy until he proves he can stay on the field is a waste of time. He finished two full seasons since he was drafted. If we do move on from Mac, make a play for Brady and kiss ass to get him back and have him retire here while we rebuild and maybe we draft an heir in a few years time.

 

[crawhammer]

And although he only completed about 50% of his passes and scored no TDs vs. the Chargers, according to your breakdown, he was really good during that time. And yet he had his best game of the season against the Jags towards the end of the season.

It's not my breakdown. It's Mac's season split into equal thirds so it's straight up objective numbers. Obviously not all games within each third is going to look the same but each third is an equitable composite of time.

My question is how much of his "regression" do you think is because of Patricia, how much do you think is because of the injury depleted/poor performing O-Line and how much do you think is on the wr's?

In part my point was Mac's regression started last season after the 3-pass attempt game in Buffalo. But setting that aside and just looking at Mac's regression from his best moments of 2021 to this season...

Mac Jones Blame Pie:

28% on Mac himself (for poor decisions, poor field vision, poor mechanics, poor throws, and poor composure)
28% on Belichick (for being responsible for Patricia and Judge)
27% on Patricia and Judge (general coaching responsibilities and play-calling)
12% on o-line
5% on WRs/TEs/RBs

or

55% on Belichick, Patricia and Judge
28% on Mac
17% other

 

[crawhammer]

Cool. Who was his coordinator? I feel like that played a factor somehow...

And when did you become such a Matt Patricia fan? I mean, this has turned into such a strange thing with you. After all, Brady's fallen off dramatically this year as well ... do we say he stinks now too? Or do we sort of admit that maybe Arians' contributions offensively made a difference? I said it before. Athletes have enough to think about, having a coach that can help carry some of that weight and catch the little things often does make the difference. As I've said, I don't think Mac shouldn't shoulder some of the blame, but the drop-off overall is too significant to put 100% on him.

This is a Brady interlude but I'm just responding to a specific statement/question.

It's evident the Bucs have missed Arians this season. If for no other reason then Bowles has had such an outstandingly horrendous season. However, there are a multitude of contributing factors to Brady's down season but a noticeable decline in his quarterbacking skills is not among the primary factors. His pocket mobility is down a click, which is problematic with a subpar pass blocking o-line, but anything arm/throwing related is pretty close to his norm. Also, the entire offensive operation is on Brady's shoulders because their running game has been historically bad for the entire season. Whereas, for example, Mac's season has been accompanied by a huge breakout season from RB Stevenson.

 

[ashley]

This is a Brady interlude but I'm just responding to a specific statement/question.

It's evident the Bucs have missed Arians this season. If for no other reason then Bowles has had such an outstandingly horrendous season. However, there are a multitude of contributing factors to Brady's down season but a noticeable decline in his quarterbacking skills is not among the primary factors. His pocket mobility is down a click, which is problematic with a subpar pass blocking o-line, but anything arm/throwing related is pretty close to his norm. Also, the entire offensive operation is on Brady's shoulders because their running game has been historically bad for the entire season. Whereas, for example, Mac's season has been accompanied by a huge breakout season from RB Stevenson.

I don't watch the Bucs like you do, but every time I have seen them play, Brady has been bad. Bowles is a horrible coach, but they still have a lot of weapons, and they just can't score and he has to be held accountable. He also seems "jumpy/nervous" in the pocket and has thrown some bad interceptions in the past two weeks.

 

[Nehalem]

Jimmy until he proves he can stay on the field is a waste of time. He finished two full seasons since he was drafted. If we do move on from Mac, make a play for Brady and kiss ass to get him back and have him retire here while we rebuild and maybe we draft an heir in a few years time.

Jimmy seems to have injury issues in even numbered years.

Since 2023 is an odd numbered year he could be a good 1 year QB.

 

[crawhammer]

I don't watch the Bucs like you do, but every time I have seen them play, Brady has been bad. Bowles is a horrible coach, but they still have a lot of weapons, and they just can't score and he has to be held accountable. He also seems "jumpy/nervous" in the pocket and has thrown some bad interceptions in the past two weeks.

Turnovers have caught up with him over the last few weeks so he definitely needs to clean that up. However, he has literally zero support from a running game and he comfortably leads the NFL in pass attempts. He still has the second lowest INT% in the NFL at 1.1% (he was only better in his unanimous MVP season 2010 and in 2016 when he had an NFL record TD/INT ratio of 28/2). His WRs have missed a ton of games this season too. And Evans has dramatically declined this season. Brady and the Bucs will have opportunity to amends in the postseason. I still can see them winning a game or two. However, a trip to the Super Bowl looks remote.

 

[SteveBsFan]

I think Mac Jones is who is he wasn't very good at the end of last year remember we backed into the Playoffs. Hey Arizona moved on from Josh Rosen after a year if I remember correctly. I think the Patriots do something similar with Mac. I don't see a reclamation project in him here: weak arm no pocket presence and bad mechanics. Not the makings of a Starting QB the jury has come in.

I do think people forget how bad he looked at the end of last season. I personally attributed it to just being tired from a long college season, short offseason, and longer NFL season.

Now it just seems like Josh and crew did what they could with him against bad teams where he looked solid, but got exposed vs good teams at the end.

He definitely got a downgraded OC, but there is only so much a coach can do.

In the end, there is plenty of valid finger pointing to almost everyone on offense from the coach to the qb to a weak squad of wr. But I just can’t convince myself Mac is a great qb just stuck with a bad offense. He’s a mediocre qb on a mediocre offense

 

[venecol]

I do think people forget how bad he looked at the end of last season. I personally attributed it to just being tired from a long college season, short offseason, and longer NFL season.

Now it just seems like Josh and crew did what they could with him against bad teams where he looked solid, but got exposed vs good teams at the end.

He definitely got a downgraded OC, but there is only so much a coach can do.

In the end, there is plenty of valid finger pointing to almost everyone on offense from the coach to the qb to a weak squad of wr. But I just can’t convince myself Mac is a great qb just stuck with a bad offense. He’s a mediocre qb on a mediocre offense

Yea, it's hard to properly evaluate his work given all the noise in the entire offensive side of the ball this season. There's no doubt that having Patricia and Judge (who may be a bigger problem) "teaching" Mac their version of the offense has not gone well. Then there's the brilliant move by Bill to make Patricia the OL coach, who proceeds to swap the 2 RT/LT players. I believe this alone demotivated "both" players resulting in their poor level of play.

However, we can't ignore what we saw in the last 5 games of last season, where Mac was throttled by the better teams. I've listened to excuses of him being injured or tired after a long season. I think that what's more likely is that teams, with enough film on him, noticed his limitations and exposed them despite Josh's attempts to protect him.

Then we hear of a somewhat new offense being installed this offseason. Mac says that he's part of it and it's a collaboration between him and the coaches. Mac says the coaches are listening to his suggestions. What do we see: more plays out of shotgun, more rpos, more vertical passes. These are all things Mac likes because that's what he did in college. He spoke about all of these things. Results: he proceeds to have the highest TO rate in the league and then gets injured.

Zappe steps in and runs whatever Patricia calls w/o argument and generally performs very well.

Mac returns and gets put on a leash again. He hates it. He lets anyone that'll listen know that he hates it.

In Mac's mind he wants to play like he did at Bama w/o a top rated OL or elite receivers. Oh, and those DBs you faced in college? Yea, not the same either.

There's a reason the 4 teams that selected 1st Rd QBs ahead of Mac didn't select him. His physical limitations outweigh any possible decision making qualities he had in college "under IDEAL conditions."

The only team where Mac could've flourished as a QB is the 49ers. Unfortunately for them they selected the wrong QB, at least as far as we know so far.

 

[RIpats88]

There can be more than one problem at once.

But one problem only started when the other one showed up.....

2022 Mac Jones is not the same as 2021 Mac Jones. And it's obvious why

 

[aluminum seats]

Quit while you're behind we ain't winning another game with him @ QB this year Book it!!

We probably weren’t going to but your use of “book it” means we probably will win at least one now.

 

[RIpats88]

So basically what I'm getting so far from reading this thread (and the defense of the play calls that bedard is listing) at is all the playcalling and route running is fine. And it's all Mac Jones? And if we replaced Mac Jones then Patricias genius will really shine.

Some of you zappe guys really need to get a grip with this narrative you are peddling. It's based in delusion.

It's OK to give some of the blame to the coaching. Defending Patricias playcalling isn't the hill I would die on.

 

[Pats2000]

So basically what I'm getting so far from reading this thread (and the defense of the play calls that bedard is listing) at is all the playcalling and route running is fine. And it's all Mac Jones? And if we replaced Mac Jones then Patricias genius will really shine.

Some of you zappe guys really need to get a grip with this narrative you are peddling. It's based in delusion.

It's OK to give some of the blame to the coaching. Defending Patricias playcalling isn't the hill I would die on.

I'm not sure where you got that all. But Mac is making everything look a little bit worse with poor decision making, poor mechanics, not so great pocket presence and not reading the defenses well.

 

[Ian]

I'm not sure where you got that all. But Mac is making everything look a little bit worse with poor decision making, poor mechanics, not so great pocket presence and not reading the defenses well.

That last one is something we don't know. Belichick has said enough this season where that appears to be one of Jones' strengths, and other teams have even pointed out that he picked up on what they were doing at times this year. But I'd agree the other three things have fallen off in recent weeks.

 

[Ian]

It's evident the Bucs have missed Arians this season.

That's all you needed to say. Even with the GOAT - coaching matters.