Mac Jones last two weeks

[Ian]

Is it actually bonkers? A double-stacked release isn’t uncommon at all. If one of those guys carries deep and the other breaks out, that’s a pretty common route concept.

Likewise for the crossers in the middle of the field. You can actually see Meyers breaking open as Henry crosses, creating a rub concept of sorts. Good play to beat man coverage; Mac missed Meyers breaking open.

The play Bedard showed with Thornton and Henry occupying the same space is the one that strikes me as a bigger issue than the play above.

I really wonder how often similar things could be found on still film images for past Patriots’ offenses - or any offense - and we’re seeing things now where previously (or elsewhere) nothing would register (because of our frustrations - or lack thereof - with the offensive coaching).

I do agree that guys need to be getting into and out of their routes with more urgency and explosiveness. Watching the Pats-Dolphins game from 2016 (if I remember the year correctly) when Jimmy G started, and it’s darn impressive to see the urgency and burst with which Jules, Danny, and Hogan were running their routes.

Make no mistake, though, the timing/rhythm/placement of throws also has a big role in route sequencing/coordination/timing, and Jimmy (and Brady) got the ball out to those guys on time, in rhythm, and with some serious zip/placement, at a much higher level than Mac has demonstrated so far.

Who knows what the plan was/is. It's just been such a bizarre year. I sort of can't believe we're in Week 16 and still have three games to go...can only imagine what craziness is still ahead of us.

 

[crawhammer]

You Mac Jones haters just make up an alternate reality for what Jones was last year. Maybe if I watched the Mac Jones you all made up in your heads last year, I would hate him too.

Firstly, I'm not a "Mac hater." Below is an objective breakdown of Mac's career thus far. Posting facts doesn't make someone a hater. And claiming so is just a copout. Accounting for why the splits breakdown as they do may be subject to opinion. However, there's no doubt Mac struggled during the last 6 games of 2021 and it's carried over into the full season of 2022.

Now I firmly believe Belichick having Patricia and Judge implementing a new offense and taking over play-calling has been a significant problem for Mac and the offense in general. However, that obviously doesn't account for Mac's similar performance in the final 6 games of last season when he was working under McDaniels. It makes for an interesting discussion because this may not be as simple as Patricia and Judge ruined Mac, therefore remove them and Mac will automatically revert back to 7-12 games of last season.

Mac Jones 2021

1-6 games (2-4): 7 TDs, 6 INTs, 245 Y/G, 7.0 Y/A, 71.1 Cmp%, 89.6 passer rating
7-12 games (6-0): 9 TDs, 2 INTs, 230 Y/G, 8.1 Y/A, 69.4 Cmp%, 106.4 passer rating
13-18 games (2-4): 8 TD, 7 INTs, 197 Y/G, 6.6 Y/A, 60.7 Cmp%, 78.9 passer rating

Mac Jones 2022

1-11 games (5-6): 7 TDs, 8 INTs, 210 Y/G, 7.1 Y/A, 65.8 Cmp%, 82.6 passer rating

If you look at the 2021 splits then you'll see Mac was mediocre (1-6 games), good (7-12 games), and bad (13-18 games).
For the entirety of the 2022 season we're getting virtually the same bad Mac we were getting 13-18 games of 2021.

Here a composite of that timeframe, week 13 of 2021 through week 15 of 2022 (17 games):
1-17 games (7-10): 15 TDs, 15 INTs, 205 Y/G, 64.0 Cmp%, 6.8 Y/A, 80.1 passer rating

 

[PatsFan2]

I have said it a few times now I don't really have a dog in the Mac vs Zappe debate but to me pulling Mac this season you might as well write him off for next season and basically his career here. Mac showed enough promise his rookie year that it would make sense to see what he can do next year without a clown show at OC.

Mac worked with a Prominent QB Coach last Off-Season and look like absolute crap with his Mechanics *another throw off his back foot*. But I hear nobody blaming that QB Coach who obviously stole Mac's money. I mean even the commentators was making fun of him. Which OC do you think can turn him around?? I think he's a bad QB who should have never been a First Rounder. I noticed a pattern with Mac Jones too we have only been able to beat crap and injured teams dating back to last year. Any decent Team with good health usually stomps us. The next Three games should show whether he's the answer or you'all know how I feel.

 

[venecol]

Cool. Who was his coordinator? I feel like that played a factor somehow...

And when did you become such a Matt Patricia fan? I mean, this has turned into such a strange thing with you. After all, Brady's fallen off dramatically this year as well ... do we say he stinks now too? Or do we sort of admit that maybe Arians' contributions offensively made a difference? I said it before. Athletes have enough to think about, having a coach that can help carry some of that weight and catch the little things often does make the difference. As I've said, I don't think Mac shouldn't shoulder some of the blame, but the drop-off overall is too significant to put 100% on him.

Lol, I'm no fan of Patricia. I was criticizing Bill's decision to have him & Judge lead the offense back to before TC and I was laughed at. He needs to go.

The poster I replied to was saying those QBs sucked until they got elite receivers and that's just not true. That's what I was replying to.

As far as Mac is concerned, there's no doubt the change in the OC has had an impact in his progression this season, but I'm just not willing to excuse his below avg level of play to 100% or even 90% (which is what you say) on the coaching. We saw it on Sunday, he had good pockets, OL played the best all season, yet he was missing receivers, or not seeing wide open ones. I'm of the belief that teams are cluttering the MOF to force him to beat them outside. He hasn't been able to do it consistently so he takes the checkdowns. It looks like he's lost confidence and has resorted to on the field histrionics. It's just not a good look for a struggling QB. I'm simply don't sold on Mac being the guy, despite the other excuses (OC/OL) being peddled by Bedard, Orlovski and the posters on this forum. It is what it is.

Brady isn't playing his best football but we've seen him overcome whatever OC/OL issues there may be. No excuses for him either.

 

[PatsFan2]

Look at how open Meyers is but of course the decision on where to go with the football had already been made.

You can't show Rob that Mac doesn't go through his progressions like any decent QB. Mac loves the safe throw behind the Sticks and LOS whoopee no picks. No guts below average QB.

 

[venecol]

And this is set up by the plain design. If he's supposed to throw it ahead of the break, the ball would be out. But they - for some reason - don't run the offense that way this year. How many back-shoulder throws have you seen this year? I don't recall any. I recall quite a few last year, among a lot of other things they haven't done this year.

I also have to say:

There were plenty of those throws during the 1st 3 games. There was a significant change in how the offense is being called from those first games and after the CHI game. Mac was top 10 in air yards at the beginning but was constantly turning the ball over. I believe coaches decided to shorten the pass game to avoid those TOs. It worked, his TOs have gone down dramatically but so have his air yards.

 

[upstater1]

Mac worked with a Prominent QB Coach last Off-Season and look like absolute crap with his Mechanics *another throw off his back foot*. But I hear nobody blaming that QB Coach who obviously stole Mac's money. I mean even the commentators was making fun of him. Which OC do you think can turn him around?? I think he's a bad QB who should have never been a First Rounder. I noticed a pattern with Mac Jones too we have only been able to beat crap and injured teams dating back to last year. Any decent Team with good health usually stomps us. The next Three games should show whether he's the answer or you'all know how I feel.

Personally, after hearing Vilma for the 1st time, I was not impressed.

There's a lot of brainless piling on coming from the chattering classes.

 

[Pats2000]

And this is set up by the plain design. If he's supposed to throw it ahead of the break, the ball would be out. But they - for some reason - don't run the offense that way this year. How many back-shoulder throws have you seen this year? I don't recall any. I recall quite a few last year, among a lot of other things they haven't done this year.

I also have to say:

They also won't run PA with Mac, but they ran it to great success with Zappe. You won't find Mac under center...

 

[PatsFan2]

And this is set up by the plain design. If he's supposed to throw it ahead of the break, the ball would be out. But they - for some reason - don't run the offense that way this year. How many back-shoulder throws have you seen this year? I don't recall any. I recall quite a few last year, among a lot of other things they haven't done this year.

I also have to say:

Devante Parker was really good at that with Fitzpatrick and Tua but not with Jones go figure. Mac is really killing me Smalls.

 

[PatsFan2]

Personally, after hearing Vilma for the 1st time, I was not impressed.

There's a lot of brainless piling on coming from the chattering classes.

A lot of people feel the opposite. We won't be getting anybody like him next year in commentators we'll be getting the bottom of the barrel types no prime time games.

 

[ashley]

Firstly, I'm not a "Mac hater." Below is an objective breakdown of Mac's career thus far. Posting facts doesn't make someone a hater. And claiming so is just a copout. Accounting for why the splits breakdown as they do may be subject to opinion. However, there's no doubt Mac struggled during the last 6 games of 2021 and it's carried over into the full season of 2022.

Now I firmly believe Belichick having Patricia and Judge implementing a new offense and taking over play-calling has been a significant problem for Mac and the offense in general. However, that obviously doesn't account for Mac's similar performance in the final 6 games of last season when he was working under McDaniels. It makes for an interesting discussion because this may not be as simple as Patricia and Judge ruined Mac, therefore remove them and Mac will automatically revert back to 7-12 games of last season.

Mac Jones 2021

1-6 games (2-4): 7 TDs, 6 INTs, 245 Y/G, 7.0 Y/A, 71.1 Cmp%, 89.6 passer rating
7-12 games (6-0): 9 TDs, 2 INTs, 230 Y/G, 8.1 Y/A, 69.4 Cmp%, 106.4 passer rating
13-18 games (2-4): 8 TD, 7 INTs, 197 Y/G, 6.6 Y/A, 60.7 Cmp%, 78.9 passer rating

Mac Jones 2022

1-11 games (5-6): 7 TDs, 8 INTs, 210 Y/G, 7.1 Y/A, 65.8 Cmp%, 82.6 passer rating

If you look at the 2021 splits then you'll see Mac was mediocre (1-6 games), good (7-12 games), and bad (13-18 games).
For the entirety of the 2022 season we're getting virtually the same bad Mac we were getting 13-18 games of 2021.

Here a composite of that timeframe, week 13 of 2021 through week 15 of 2022 (17 games):
1-17 games (7-10): 15 TDs, 15 INTs, 205 Y/G, 64.0 Cmp%, 6.8 Y/A, 80.1 passer rating

Interesting stats!! Thanks.

I think for a rookie, coming in and starting, last year's numbers are good. (Just look at Trevor Lawrence and all the other rookie qb's) The issue most fans are having is they expected to see an improvement this year from Mac, which isn't happening. My question is how much of his "regression" do you think is because of Patricia, how much do you think is because of the injury depleted/poor performing O-Line and how much do you think is on the wr's?

 

[PatsFan2]

Personally, after hearing Vilma for the 1st time, I was not impressed.

There's a lot of brainless piling on coming from the chattering classes.

They can only commentate on what they see and Mac's play speaks for itself. Sometimes it comes off as comedy.

 

[Ian]

Lol, I'm no fan of Patricia. I was criticizing Bill's decision to have him & Judge lead the offense back to before TC and I was laughed at. He needs to go.

The poster I replied to was saying those QBs sucked until they got elite receivers and that's just not true. That's what I was replying to.

As far as Mac is concerned, there's no doubt the change in the OC has had an impact in his progression this season, but I'm just not willing to excuse his below avg level of play to 100% or even 90% (which is what you say) on the coaching. We saw it on Sunday, he had good pockets, OL played the best all season, yet he was missing receivers, or not seeing wide open ones. I'm of the belief that teams are cluttering the MOF to force him to beat them outside. He hasn't been able to do it consistently so he takes the checkdowns. It looks like he's lost confidence and has resorted to on the field histrionics. It's just not a good look for a struggling QB. I'm simply don't sold on Mac being the guy, despite the other excuses (OC/OL) being peddled by Bedard, Orlovski and the posters on this forum. It is what it is.

Brady isn't playing his best football but we've seen him overcome whatever OC/OL issues there may be. No excuses for him either.

Sunday's performance was awful, no excuses to be made there. The spacing is just part of the problem. He missed too many opportunities that were there, and it just wasn't good.

 

[Rob0729]

Firstly, I'm not a "Mac hater." Below is an objective breakdown of Mac's career thus far. Posting facts doesn't make someone a hater. And claiming so is just a copout. Accounting for why the splits breakdown as they do may be subject to opinion. However, there's no doubt Mac struggled during the last 6 games of 2021 and it's carried over into the full season of 2022.

Now I firmly believe Belichick having Patricia and Judge implementing a new offense and taking over play-calling has been a significant problem for Mac and the offense in general. However, that obviously doesn't account for Mac's similar performance in the final 6 games of last season when he was working under McDaniels. It makes for an interesting discussion because this may not be as simple as Patricia and Judge ruined Mac, therefore remove them and Mac will automatically revert back to 7-12 games of last season.

Mac Jones 2021

1-6 games (2-4): 7 TDs, 6 INTs, 245 Y/G, 7.0 Y/A, 71.1 Cmp%, 89.6 passer rating
7-12 games (6-0): 9 TDs, 2 INTs, 230 Y/G, 8.1 Y/A, 69.4 Cmp%, 106.4 passer rating
13-18 games (2-4): 8 TD, 7 INTs, 197 Y/G, 6.6 Y/A, 60.7 Cmp%, 78.9 passer rating

Mac Jones 2022

1-11 games (5-6): 7 TDs, 8 INTs, 210 Y/G, 7.1 Y/A, 65.8 Cmp%, 82.6 passer rating

If you look at the 2021 splits then you'll see Mac was mediocre (1-6 games), good (7-12 games), and bad (13-18 games).
For the entirety of the 2022 season we're getting virtually the same bad Mac we were getting 13-18 games of 2021.

Here a composite of that timeframe, week 13 of 2021 through week 15 of 2022 (17 games):
1-17 games (7-10): 15 TDs, 15 INTs, 205 Y/G, 64.0 Cmp%, 6.8 Y/A, 80.1 passer rating

You start doing this and one or two games can skew the numbers though. Look at the OP in this thread. Sure it is only two games, but the OP made it look like Jones was awful not only this past Sunday but the previous Monday vs. the Cards. That isn't the case. He wasn't bad vs. the Cards. He was just so awful on Sunday (at least statistically) that is really brought down the two game average of the games. It does that in five games too just not as much. His worst game by far last year was the second Bills game. And then you add the first game against the Bills where he threw three passes. So that game has no influence on the averages. And even though the Jags game was his best game last year, doesn't offset the crappy Bills game.

But if you look at his games individually, his two worst games after that second Bills game were the Saints game in the first month of the season and the Chargers' game in the middle of the season. He was worse against the Saints than any game down the stretch of the season last year other than the Bills' game although the breakdown you have would say that Jones wasn't bad during that time. And although he only completed about 50% of his passes and scored no TDs vs. the Chargers, according to your breakdown, he was really good during that time. And yet he had his best game of the season against the Jags towards the end of the season.

It just isn't really looking at the whole story if you break his season down into three portions and assess how he did based on 5-6 game stretches like that.

 

[upstater1]

Interesting stats!! Thanks.

I think for a rookie, coming in and starting, last year's numbers are good. (Just look at Trevor Lawrence and all the other rookie qb's) The issue most fans are having is they expected to see an improvement this year from Mac, which isn't happening. My question is how much of his "regression" do you think is because of Patricia, how much do you think is because of the injury depleted/poor performing O-Line and how much do you think is on the wr's?

I would say we got to see Mac play under duress, and the results were not good.

So... although the support wasn't optimal, he handled it badly.

If he's the kind of QB that can only function when he gets full support, then it's just not good for the team, especially for the playoffs when things break down.

Given several things that have happened over the last 3 weeks, I put it at better than 50% chance that the coaches want to move on from him.

And I say that because of a few things the coaches have said recently that had me thinking they were using poison pens in their praise of Mac.

 

[PatsFan2]

Any evaluation of the QB here begins and ends with the question: how does he do under pressure?

The goal is winning playoff games when QBs come under extreme duress.

This is the problem with Mac right now, Patricia aside.

It is very worrisome because if a guy does well in the regular season by completing a lot of passes, playing well given time to throw, you can be lulled into thinking he's the type of QB you need.

And then you get to the big game and you realized you've thrown all your marbles in with Jimmy Garoppolo and Ryan Tannehill, two guys who wilt under pressure. What you needed all along is a guy like Jake Delhomme!

As for Josh Allen's 2nd year, he was wildly inaccurate that year. Just watching every one of his games, he used to pound the ball into the ground at his receiver's feet constantly. He settled down, got more time to throw, and that improved his accuracy greatly. He also started checking down and using the short game. That was an immense help too, just to improve his touch throws and get him in rhythm. The last couple of weeks you see Allen reverting into the old Allen, inaccurate, looking downfield constantly, ignoring open guys.

Allen have the talent on O to overcome his mistakes you live and die with him. On Jimmy G I wish Mac had his ceiling. I would be shocked if we didn't pursue him this Off-season. Put some decent Talent around Jimmy G and BB can Win with him praying for good health all the time.

 

[venecol]

Sunday's performance was awful, no excuses to be made there. The spacing is just part of the problem. He missed too many opportunities that were there, and it just wasn't good.

Yea, Warner touched on the route separation issue not being ideal, but you can still make a play.

I found it interesting when I believe it was the goal line sequence, Mac gets with Patricia and is being vocal, then Bill walks up and starts talking to him, where he calms down (shuts up). I've never seen any player act the way Mac does with his coaches on nationally broadcast games. It's been ongoing. I don't particularly like it. I wish he was more cool, calm and collected. Three of his OL played w/ Brady. I wonder what they're thinking.

 

[Rob0729]

You can't show Rob that Mac doesn't go through his progressions like any decent QB. Mac loves the safe throw behind the Sticks and LOS whoopee no picks. No guts below average QB.

I have said this year he hasn't gone through his progressions like he did last year. Don't put words in my mouth. I am in agreement with Kurt Warner that he was good at going through his progressions last year and if anything he rushed them at times, but this year he isn't doing it. A portion of that is on the offense itself because with it being a simplified offense, I think it is designed for the QB to make a throw off the first or second read. But doesn't mean it is all on the offense or Patricia.

Right now Jones is broken and Belichick and Patricia broke him. You can argue another QB might have been able to overcome the obstacles put before him or at least weathered it better, but Jones was set up to fail this year. I look at him and his situation this year and it was basically what Trevor Lawrence faced last year. Lawrence was a wreck last year and is just finally starting to come into his potential. I don't think Jones has the potential of Lawrence, but with a good situation next year, he could be an exponetially better player.

 

[upstater1]

Allen have the talent on O to overcome his mistakes you live and die with him. On Jimmy G I wish Mac had his ceiling. I would be shocked if we didn't pursue him this Off-season. Put some decent Talent around Jimmy G and BB can Win with him praying for good health all the time.

Jimmy G has shown that even after many many years in the league, he crumbles under pressure.

 

[Ian]

Yea, Warner touched on the route separation issue not being ideal, but you can still make a play.

I found it interesting when I believe it was the goal line sequence, Mac gets with Patricia and is being vocal, then Bill walks up and starts talking to him, where he calms down (shuts up). I've never seen any player act the way Mac does with his coaches on nationally broadcast games. It's been ongoing. I don't particularly like it. I wish he was more cool, calm and collected. Three of his OL played w/ Brady. I wonder what they're thinking.

Knowing his background in college, it's not like Saban didn't inform him of this and I don't get why he's not riding Mac more there. Unless he agrees with some of it...definitely doesn't make much sense.