Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Raiders beat the Pats

[captain stone]

Maybe, but they are players Belichick kept.

To our detriment.

 

[PaulThePat]

I'd say Stevenson had a very bad brain fart. What Myers did was more akin to full on brain diarrhea. Sad thing is it was two of our best players. Both would be benched if we had better options but we don't.

As an aside, I'm convinced that the mythical "New York" has completely misinterpreted the blown TD call. Cole's cleets had about an inch and a half of black round the toe. For me what they have incorrectly iterpretated as white shoe, black endzone, white out of bounds was actually white shoe, black shoe, out of bounds. Clearly out.

 

[TomPatriot]

But those are two of whom he should've rid the T-E-A-M, as in as early as the 2020 trade deadline.

Maybe, but you need veterans on the field.

 

[catent]

If the people under my tutelage in work **** up I get in ****. If they do it repeatedly I get canned

Can you point me towards the prior instances where a player has made a mistake of that magnitude under Patricia? I'll spare you the trouble and tell you that has never happened before, and it'll probably never happen again.

That has nothing to do with coaching. A professional football player in the NFL should never need to be told or reminded not to do what Meyers did. End of discussion.

It's odd how when the team succeeds, it's because "players win games". When the team struggles, the logical inverse of "players lose games" is rarely heard ... instead we get, "why does the coaching suck so much?". So, wait ... who actually wins (and loses) games?

The truth is you need both - good players and good coaching. But in some instances the lines are more clear than others, and this was an instance where the player is 100% accountable for what happened.

 

[archstanton543]

Patricia still in a job????

It's too late in the season to make any changes, don't you know.

 

[captain stone]

Maybe, but you need veterans on the field.

Not if they're no longer productive and in McCourty's case costing more than he's worth.

 

[catent]

Yeah, god forbid they sit Mac and not give him ample time to figure things out ... but also, god forbid they don't fire Patricia immediately for poor performance. Lots of people hold these views simultaneously.

In one case, a poor performer is given time to sort things out. In the other case, a poor performer is demanded to be immediately removed from his position.

Go ahead and figure that one out.

 

[archstanton543]

I’d have ridden the Zappe train until it crashed which I would have fully expected it to do. You think Jones has limitations? Zappe has even more. He’s too damn short to begin with.

Zappe is as tall as Drew Brees so that's not true.

 

[PatsFan2]

Can we even get a conditional 7th for Mac Jones now?? How was he a First Rounder in the first place? Jimmy G in FA 2023 come home Jimmy.

 

[1960Pats]

Salary cap, money. Every team lets players go. He keeps some too (Slater, McCourty, etc.).

I don't actually look at Slater as a player. What does he do? And McCourty is done. Put a fork in him. Too bad that Brady didn't get the chance to end his career here like they will.

The list of top talent that Bill has let go is endless. The reason given is that he prefers to have depth, but it doesn't look like we have that either. Bill also doesn't reward players for playing large roles in the SB wins. For instance, he had no problem dumping Brady, Gronk and Amendola.

You can't in one breath say that it's a players game and then let the best players go, not at the rate that he has, and expect to win.

 

[catent]

Zappe is as tall as Drew Breesr so that's not true.

Taller than Brees and Wilson. Not as tall as Mac, Mahomes, Rodgers, and your typical run-of-the-mill 6'2"-6'3"+ QB, but I wouldn't necessarily call him short or small, either.

There have definitely been QBs shorter than Zappe who had highly successful careers. Zappe is below average and I wouldn't describe his height as ideal, if you were building a perfect QB in a lab, but he's not as far off as some suggest.

 

[archstanton543]

Can we even get a conditional 7th for Mac Jones now?? How was he a First Rounder in the first place? Jimmy G in FA 2023 come home Jimmy.

He won the National Championship with Bama. And he was slated as a high to mid 1st round pick. If you want to blame anyone for his regression, blame Bill. He said to do so himself.

 

[archstanton543]

I don't actually look at Slater as a player. What does he do? And McCourty is done. Put a fork in him. Too bad that Brady didn't get the chance to end his career here like they will.

The list of top talent that Bill has let go is endless. The reason given is that he prefers to have depth, but it doesn't look like we have that either. Bill also doesn't reward players for playing large roles in the SB wins. For instance, he had no problem dumping Brady, Gronk and Amendola.

You can't in one breath say that it's a players game and then let the best players go, not at the rate that he has, and expect to win.

Look, if you get overly sentimental with players you lose in the long term. There's a reason the Pats didn't win jack with the GOAT for 10 years after the 2004 Super Bowl.

 

[1960Pats]

Well, I'm sure he didn't call for two backwards passes on the last play of the game.

From what I've read and heard it isn't just Patricia's play-calling that's an issue.

 

[Uptown]

If we didn’t have Rhamondre…wheeeeeewww..

 

[catent]

He won the National Championship with Bama. And he was slated as a high to mid 1st round pick. If you want to blame anyone for his regression, blame Bill. He said to do so himself.

Belichick said he's responsible for the offense. That's what he said. He didn't say he's personally responsible for Mac's development and performance, because that's a pretty ridiculous position to hold (that one individual is solely responsible for another's success/development).

If nothing else, it completely robs the individual player of their autonomy and ability to earn and achieve success through their own hard work. It's always both - coach and player. It takes two to tango. You can have a great player in a horrible environment and they won't reach their potential. You can have fantastic coaches with awful talent, and they won't reach their potential.

Players win games, after all ... except when they don't ... then it's entirely the coaches fault and they bear all the responsibility. Huh.

Yeah, the offensive coaching staff is not ideal, but at some point people need to start putting some responsibility on the shoulders of the players themselves (and this goes beyond just Mac).

There is a lot of stuff in Mac's control beyond the coaching, and he isn't handling or doing much of it very well. His demeanor and poise (or lack thereof) being the most obvious.

 

[BritPat]

I still haven't processed the end 5 seconds. I'm still outraged at the Cole TD.

 

[Ollie]

if people think that relying on a physically limited qb to tackle a 250lb DE one to one is the reason we lost that game and are pinning it on that rather than the multitude of ****s ups leading up to it then that is crazy. Sure if he makes that tackle its OT but any tema that is putting Mac in that position to tie a game to go to OT is not going far. That situtation should never ever happen.

 

[archstanton543]

No, Belichick said he's responsible for the offense. That's what he said. He didn't say he's personally responsible for Mac's development and performance, because that's a pretty ridiculous position to hold (that one individual is solely responsible for another's success/development). If nothing else, it completely robs the individual player of their autonomy and ability to earn and achieve success through their own hard work.

Players win games, after all ... except when they don't ... then it's entirely the coaches fault and they bear all the responsibility. Huh.

Yeah, the offensive coaching staff is not ideal, but at some point people need to start putting some responsibility on the shoulders of the players themselves.

There is a lot of stuff in Mac's control beyond the coaching, and he isn't handling or doing much of it very well. His demeanor and poise (or lack thereof) being the most obvious.

It starts with coaching, no?

He is responsible for a second-year player regressing. You can blame Patricia or Judge but (again) Bill said to blame him if it doesn't work out. I'm putting the blame where the 6-time Super Bowl champ BB said to put it.

 

[PaulThePat]

Pats have a lot of JAGs who need to play up to an elite level to succeed. We need everything to work. When it doesn't we get seasons like this. Our coaching is no longer ahead of the NFL. Our coaching is being left behind. A play as stupid as the Myers play was always likely to happen at some point.