Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Jets

[VJCPatriot]

Which ALSO doesn't take into account Brady's incredible ability to move in the pocket to avoid pressure. The raw time till sack is NOT the be all and end all to the story of what's going on absent any other data.

Mac Jones problems this year - no pocket presence or awareness, can't escape the pocket or make plays on the run when protection breaks down, no mobility, holds the ball too long and then gets sacked, misses open WRs, throws interceptions because he can't get the ball where he needs it on time, I could go on and on and on. The simple answer is put in Zappe, at least he can make some plays under this craptastic offense that Matt Patricia and Joe Judge have glued together. It's just ugly and it doesn't work.

The "experiment" with this new offense needs to END now cos it ain't working! Kendrick Bourne had reasons to complain and he looks completely justified now.

 

[Rob0729]

yes and this is the problem. Patricia and Jones did not anticipate the rush, they could have changed the play to a concept including a short route.

It was a four man rush. If you expect Jones to check out of a play because he cannot throw down the field with a four man rush, they might as well call screen plays all game. You cannot blame Jones for not checking out of the play because there was a four man rush.

But you can blame Patricia for having the only receivers running shorter routes being Stevenson and Henry who were both lined up five yards in the backfield and ran routes that went farther than five yards beyond the line of scrimmage (granted it was 3rd and 12). And you can blame Jones for not just throwing the ball out of the back of the endzone in the area of a receiver. But that comes with a caveat of whether any of the receivers ran a route into the endzone.

 

[Rob0729]

Which ALSO doesn't take into account Brady's incredible ability to move in the pocket to avoid pressure. The raw time till sack is NOT the be all and end all to the story of what's going on absent any other data.

There wasn't one sack where Jones could have moved in the pocket to avoid the sack and buy more time yesterday. Not one. He tried the one I posted, but the tackles didn't even give him time for that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Double JJ, put Jones on thielen, Duggs on hoceknson.. would be my formula..

Keep Bryant off the field.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

It was a four man rush. If you expect Jones to check out of a play because he cannot throw down the field with a four man rush, they might as well call screen plays all game. You cannot blame Jones for not checking out of the play because there was a four man rush.

But you can blame Patricia for having the only receivers running shorter routes being Stevenson and Henry who were both lined up five yards in the backfield and ran routes that went farther than five yards beyond the line of scrimmage. And you can blame Jones for not just throwing the ball out of the back of the endzone in the area of a receiver. But that comes with a caveat of whether any of the receivers ran a route into the endzone.

with this o-line there shouldn't be a siingle play called where nobody is ready within 3 seconds. If 4 guys are getting there after 3 seconds someone should be open or turn at least his head for the ball. This is not an nfl ready offense it seems

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Mac Jones problems this year - no pocket presence or awareness, can't escape the pocket or make plays on the run when protection breaks down, no mobility, holds the ball too long and then gets sacked, misses open WRs, throws interceptions because he can't get the ball where he needs it on time, I could go on and on and on. The simple answer is put in Zappe, at least he can make some plays under this craptastic offense that Matt Patricia and Joe Judge have glued together. It's just ugly and it doesn't work.

The "experiment" with this new offense needs to END now cos it ain't working! Kendrick Bourne had reasons to complain and he looks completely justified now.

there seem to many plays where receivers running routes in the same area/zone. At least it looks like it on some of the highlighted clips from reporters.

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[DaBruinz]

Until we can contain Diggs we will struggle against Buffalo, allen/Diggs combination is just too good.. Allen break downs the toughest defenses.. you'd think BB could devise a game plan to deal with Allen. He's a dynamic player

We'll put Jon Jones on Diggs with Safety help. Where we got burned is not having people to cover Davis and McKenzie. This is where Mills and Jack Jones will have to come into play.

Allen couldn't handle the Jets defense a couple weeks ago. The Pats defense is better than the Jets defense.

 

[DaBruinz]

Each of Wynn, Ferentz, Cajuste, Strange and sometimes Brown were overmatched yesterday, often more than one on each play. If one guy gets beat you can often step up or throw the ball away, but when two or even three are getting beat at the same time it is way harder.

Over 61 sacks (2009-2011), Brady's average time to sack was 3.1 seconds, so Mac is getting sacked significantly more quickly than that, suggesting that overall he is not getting sacked because he's holding onto the ball too long. Obviously any one play can be different - let's see what the all-22 reveals.

What was Mac's average time to throw last year? Hint: it was less than 2.93 seconds.

 

[Rob0729]

with this o-line there shouldn't be a siingle play called where nobody is ready within 3 seconds. If 4 guys are getting there after 3 seconds someone should be open or turn at least his head for the ball. This is not an nfl ready offense it seems

Then you are blaming Patricia.

As I said before, I will give him a little leeway on that one because it was 3rd and 12 in makeable field goal range in a game where the Jets weren't scoring points, but overall I would agree that in this game they should have had short quick passing plays. The zone between the line and the first down marker was pretty much wide open a quick pass to Stevenson or Henry could have gotten a first down, but both guys didn't even get past the line of scrimmage until 1-2 seconds.

 

[DaBruinz]

Getting rid of Karras and Mason and drafting Strange in the FIRST ROUND is looking worse by the day.

Really? Because Karras was paid starting money in Cincy. Onwenu is a better RG this year than Shaq Mason. You thinking that picking Strange is looking "worse by the day" speaks volumes about your understanding of the game.

 

[DaBruinz]

Folk didn't 'fall apart', he was trying to kick in a hurricane.

They stated that kicking in that direction in warm-ups that even his 38 yard attempt fell short because of the wind knocking it down.

 

[Rob0729]

I want to address the Jones sack issue thing. Jones has 21 sacks which is 15th most in the NFL. Yes, he missed three games due to injuries, but his average per game is not near the top. And 16 of his 21 sacks came in the last three games (12 were in the two Jets games) when he was coming back quickly from a high ankle sprain which could have affected his mobility in the pocket. And Andrews missed 2 3/4 of those games.

Before the ankle injury, he had five sacks in three games.

I think people's complaints of pocket awareness is overstated. Looks like from the actual stats, it is his lack of mobility from the injury pared with an o-line that has been missing Andrews for most of this time is the most likely reason for his pocket awareness issue.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Then you are blaming Patricia.

i am not a fan

Whatever they did this offseason with the offense scheme, they need to change it back immediately.
Mac is in his second year, guys who worked with him like Tom House, talked about Jones improving etc. To my untrained eye nothing looks improved which could have several reasons.
In his second year you would expect the veterans and Jones to be on the same page. They are not in sync at all.
They look like they play their first time together. They play-calling is suspect.
For example yesterday finally Patricia called a PA and then a bootleg which both worked well. Then he had like 3 straight runs up the middle for nothing. He calls these runs up the middle in every single game a dozen times and it's not working well. Those runs set up a 2 and 10.

As I said before, I will give him a little leeway on that one because it was 3rd and 12 in makeable field goal range in a game where the Jets weren't scoring points, but overall I would agree that in this game they should have had short quick passing plays. The zone between the line and the first down marker was pretty much wide open a quick pass to Stevenson or Henry could have gotten a first down, but both guys didn't even get past the line of scrimmage until 1-2 seconds.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bunch of people here saying Mac is at fault for most of the sacks. The clock disagrees:

I haven't seen anyone state that Mac was at fault for ALL the sacks. Most have said there is blame to go around. The entire line played like crap and even more so after Andrews went down.

Cajuste got burned on 2 of the sacks.
Trent Brown got put on his arse on 1 of them.
Strange was handled too easily by Quinnen Williams, but Kevin Harlan was blaming him for most of Ferentz's screw-ups as well. Such as on the delayed rush by Mosely. It was supposed to be Ferentz picking him up. But Ferentz had completely turned to help Strange without paying attention to the LB.
I think Onwenu was the only one to not give up a sack or TFL yesterday, but I haven't see the final tallies to be 100% positive.

 

[long distance]

3 seconds is long enough. 2-3 seconds seems like the usual time for the qb to make a decision.
This is on Matt and the offense pass concept and play calling. It's unacceptable to have no one ready to catch a ball after 3 seconds. The routes can't take so much time. The passing game is a mess

if sack is at 3s then pressure is at 2s esp if Mac KNOWS its coming bc its coming almost every play with two pounds Ferentz in front of him
he also FEELS he cannot step inside the pocket bc Ferentz cant hold his own most of the time . there are opportunities to climb the pocket sometimes but are too inconsistent for QB to build confidence esp vs TOP IDL
he KNOWS Cajuste is UNABLE to redirect or keep up with outside rush for more than 2s
he HOPES the blind side will hold but has no confidence

and my guess is he KNOWS the playcalling/design does not correspond to the reality of OL
(bc there was not a single point in time where BB & co would suggest they ACKNOWLEDGE the reality of OL)

what you get is uncomfortable sophomore QB, itchy and lost (at least) half of the time

im afraid this season is a loss for Mac no matter the end score . im not sure theres a lot to be learnt but im not Mac so i hope something still is
how he can bounce back with hopefully competent OL/depth next yr remains to be seen
he's a fighter though..

this is the worst GM job on the OL/QB ive ever seen from BB . quite baffling in fact
there was a nice opportunity to build on successful QB rookie year . with plenty of cheap solid experienced IOLs available late in FA
not to mention the OL coaching blunder > EVERYONE REGRESSED from last yr except Onwenu bc he was finally placed to his best position
they cut young homegrown guys that earned some experience & showed some potential over last 2y bc they regressed.

i am on the record from well before TC that there is zero OL depth and they are obviously not addressing it and that that will be the detriment of a promising rebuild y2..

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

if sack is at 3s then pressure is at 2s esp if Mac KNOWS its coming bc its coming almost every play with two pounds Ferentz in front of him
he also FEELS he cannot step inside the pocket bc Ferentz cant hold his own most of the time . there are opportunities to climb the pocket sometimes but are too inconsistent for QB to build confidence esp vs TOP IDL
he KNOWS Cajuste is UNABLE to redirect or keep up with outside rush for more than 2s
he HOPES the blind side will hold but has no confidence

and my guess is he KNOWS the playcalling/design does not correspond to the reality of OL

what you get is uncomfortable sophomore QB, itchy and lost (at least) half of the time

im afraid this season is a loss for Mac no matter the end score . im not sure theres a lot to be learnt but im not Mac so i hope something still is
how he can bounce back with hopefully competent OL/depth next yr remains to be seen
he's a fighter though..

this is the most important point i have seen posted in quit a lot of time.
After a promising rookie year with a lot of confidence , it seems that mac has regressed and lost any kind of confidence in this offense and his play. This year is a complete waste of his development so far.

this is the worst GM job on the OL/QB ive ever seen from BB . quite baffling in fact
there was a nice opportunity to build on successful QB rookie year . with plenty of cheap solid experienced IOLs available late in FA
not to mention the OL coaching blunder > EVERYONE REGRESSED from last yr except Onwenu bc he was finally placed to his best position
they cut young homegrown guys that earned some experience & showed some potential over last 2y.

i am on the record from well before TC that there is zero OL depth and they are obviously not addressing it and that that will be the detriment of a promising rebuild y2..

agree with your post, i remember you posting this about the o-line depth and FA several times and it's hard to understand.
I wonder what they are seeing in Cajuste and the back-ups. They are not good enough and we already knew with Wynn Brown and Andrews you have staters who had injuries quit a few times.

 

[DaBruinz]

Many fans blamed Jones for this sack yesterday ignoring the fact that Cajuste just waived hello to Clemons as he ran by him unimpeaded to the QB and Trent Brown missed his block so bad that he ended up on all fours on the ground. They claimed that Jones either didn't even try to step up in the pocket or he didn't have the pocket awareness to know that both his tackles would completely blow their blocking assignments and start to step up in the pocket even before he backed up.



Also this from Daniels.

I agree that the first one is on Cajuste. It's one of the two I blame him for.
I don't think the second one on Mac. I put it on Trent Brown. Brown SEEMS like he's good with his kick-slides, but then just get's whipped and pushed onto his arse allowing the sack.

 

[Zuma]

I don’t know if anyone watched the Chiefs / Chargers game…Mahomes is escaping pressure consistently….rolling out left and right. I get the perception that Mahomes is some sort of athletic freak but him and Mac have very similar combine numbers. Their is an awareness that Mac doesn’t possess. I’m cool with people saying that issue is with the coaches and Oline. All good.

 

[Rob0729]

I don’t know if anyone watched the Chiefs / Chargers game…Mahomes is escaping pressure consistently….rolling out left and right. I get the perception that Mahomes is some sort of athletic freak but him and Mac have very similar combine numbers. Their is an awareness that Mac doesn’t possess. I’m cool with people saying that issue is with the coaches and Oline. All good.

Combine numbers don't mean anything. No QB 40 yards in a straight line to escape pressure.

And I also pointed out, Jones' problems in the pocket are being way overstated and most likely caused by his bum ankle because he did not have a pocket awareness problem pre-injury. He other other problems like making stupid throws, but he got sacked five times in the games prior to him getting injured. And he threw over 30 times a game in each of those games.

 

[RIpats88]

Zappe played bad vs the Bears.

How many games has Jones played like dog 5hit? Are you going to tell me what we watched yesterday was solid NFL QB play from either team?

Jones and Wilson are fighting it out for worst AFCE QB and Wilson won yesterday.

The biggest weakness on this Pats team is QB and its not even debatable. Smart QB play would help the OL immensely.

He had 4 incompletions! You have to be trolling to think that's a bad game