Game Day Thread Official Post Game Day Thread- Pats beat the Jets

[captain stone]

Cleaning out the notebook, like only Reiss can: A good read:

"11. Special teams was a strength again for the Patriots..."

Again?

Again?!?

 

[ashley]

No doubt TB12 and BB are GOATS. Why is this still a thing after witnessing what is happening in Tampa where there the inmate is running the asylum?

It's this particular poster's way of trolling and it won't happen again.

I agree with your post, great points!!!

 

[Sicilian]

"11. Special teams was a strength again for the Patriots..."

Again?

Again?!?

Maybe he meant it was a strength again, as in it returned to being a strength, rather than it has been continually been a strength? That's one of those weird sentences that needs more context or it can mean different things.

 

[ashley]

Some good play designs:

 

[PScottman]

Correction: They were Defensive Coordinator who had been an Offensive line coach for a season on the Patriots and a Special Teams Coach.
They have BOTH performed multiple duties in the past.

The offensive scheme was NOT changed other than to simplify terminology and add plays conducive to Mac's skillset.

I think our conversations might be very different around here if hypothetically Judge and Patricia hadn't gone to HC gigs. Is the hue and cry as loud if Judge simply moves from ST to QB Coach? Coaches move laterally all the time especially below the coordinator roles.

Patricia's case is likely unchanged even in that hypothetical scenario as he wasn't well liked even when he was here as the DC either because he wasn't particularly an aggressive one in his approach to play calling - at least to a lot of posters here. Add that to continued discussion of similar vein - that he's now too aggressive in calling offensive plays...and the "refrain stays the same" as they say.

I tend to examine things systematically - meaning there are multiple factors at play in evaluation. There are things Mac is doing, Patricia is doing, and even Judge is doing that are likely causal to the offensive output seeming "disjointed" in many cases - whether in design, decision, or fundamentals (or some combination of all three). Add in an OL that has been inconsistent and the other team getting a vote through their play and it's not just going to be an "easy" button solution (Fire Patricia! Hire S. Payton or OB!) that many folks posting here think.

 

[Thelonious]

This is just one of the numerous examples of why you earned the "Nickname" that people use for you.
You're 100% wrong. Instead of admitting to it. You post moronic statements that show you shouldn't be taken seriously.

Make up your mind. Am I an a**h*t, or am I a moron, or do I get to choose?

My nickname, by the way, is "Bub." You may call me "Bub." That might make a good start at mending our relationship.

 

[Pats2000]

Could be. It's just baffling, honestly.

It is, considering how much of an advantage PA can give you to open up space in the middle of the field. This is just more evidence making me think Mac isn't the guy. And before we point to Josh Allen, he's an absolute edge case, he got better every year. He never had more than twice as many interceptions as TD's, and he had a lot of physical upside.

Mac is just falling apart.

 

[PScottman]

I just wonder if Belichick should welcome in the other Ventrone Sunday by getting Frank Reich to cut him and then resign him...just for old times sake.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I just wonder if Belichick should welcome in Ray Ventrone Sunday by getting Frank Reich to cut him and then resign him...just for old times sake.

Nice thought, but that was Ross:

S Ross Ventrone cut again by Patriots

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. (AP) -- It's Wednesday, so it must be time for the New England Patriots to cut Ross Ventrone again.

www.columbian.com

 

[Rob0729]

FWIW, Bedard blames Meyers for both the pick six and the failed fourth down.

He agrees with others who have said that Meyers ran the wrong option route on the pick six.


On the fourth down, Jones clearly motions to Meyers to fade back because the defender covering Meyers was focused on Jones rather than watching where Meyers was. He says that if Meyers backed up when Jones signaled, it would have probably been a TD pass because there was only daylight between Meyers and the end zone. At the very least, that shows what Jones saw on that play.

Of course Bedard is not the be all and end all on film study, he does at least analyze the coach’s film.

 

[Thelonious]

Does the new smiley, nurturing Bill give anybody else the creeps? When he smiles at the reporters, it looks like he's got a major gas bubble or something.

 

[PScottman]

Nice thought, but that was Ross:

S Ross Ventrone cut again by Patriots

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. (AP) -- It's Wednesday, so it must be time for the New England Patriots to cut Ross Ventrone again.

www.columbian.com

You've seen one Ventrone you've seen them all.

 

[upstater1]

Are you going to guarantee than neither Onwenu nor Strange ever get injured. We need a backup OG.

I know we do. Just don't want to spend a prime pick on one.

 

[upstater1]

The Pats definitely need a 1st or second round OT in 2023. But, my suggestion if I were Bob Kraft, would be to hire the best OL coach possible. Dante Scarnecchia should be in the NFL HOF for everything he did to help make TB12 the best ever.

I've been saying this for many weeks now. Definitely agree on the OT

 

[upstater1]

Are these the members of your crew that called me out? Which one are you? Let me guess, the lil fellow with the rainbow afro. Is that in Buffalo, where you're from? You guys. Lol

One was a moderator. Strange that's how you see people running this site.

I linked to your own words. Your MO is to run away from the receipts.

The receipts are there.

 

[Sicilian]

I know we do. Just don't want to spend a prime pick on one.

Yup. Bring in a journeyman FA or two, spend the customary 6th round pick on a flyer, and let those three battle with Hines in his 2nd year for spots. If there's a premium pick to be used on OL it should be at tackle. I also wouldn't mind a center in the mid rounds if they don't think Russey is a guy going forward, because we've seen what happens when Andrews isn't in the middle of that line. I'd rather have an heir waiting in the wings.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Is there anyone consistently calling him "elite"?

I'm not saying anyone is calling him "elite" Didnt think it came across like that, apologies if it did. I'm saying it's tough having a convo about the potential of that happening.

Trust me, I i understand you have to give players time. There are multiple other factors contributing to a players output/production but you can also isolate certain spaces to get a look at how someone is doing individually.

I think we should be free to do so without jumping on teams and sides. Or pretend one is being set up to succeed. Blame it on a "new offense" or w/e other excuses have been put out there.

I think the best most here rate him is in the competent category meaning "if he plays to the mean of his potential in what he does well can manage a strong running and defensive based team to be in most NFL ballgames." Damning with faint praise, I know.

What's worse he's not doing those things well he must (rapid (and good) decision making, accuracy, and ball protection) to be even that 2d/3d tier level QB right now.

Elite is a strong word (at least to me) that invokes "Top 2 or 3 players in a given year or more" talent (and yes I do believe that players can be elite in short stints like a single season, but never be that again).

I honestly have never believed Mac Jones was going to meet that criteria. Even last year, he played to his strengths more consistently, but it wasn't even a great QB year, much less elite (and I'm not the world's toughest grader either).

To an extent this is the conversation I'm talking about. I'm giving Mac until the end of this year before making a rough estimate. You can usually see "it" in the first two years but you wait 3-4 for good measure (coaching fits - Daniel Jones, Josh Allen etc, maybe injuries slow the first few years)

It comes up quick when you factor in rookie contracts, QB classes/draft opportunities and rising cost at the position.

Tough subject but one we're going to have to take on considering Allen, Mahomes and others in the AFC/E.

At that position you either have "elite" or you're looking for it. Or you're just middling around hoping to get lucky.

 

[upstater1]

I'm not saying anyone is calling him "elite" Didnt think it came across like that, apologies if it did. I'm saying it's tough having a convo about the potential of that happening.

Trust me, I i understand you have to give players time. There are multiple other factors contributing to a players output/production but you can also isolate certain spaces to get a look at how someone is doing individually.

I think we should be free to do so without jumping on teams and sides. Or pretend one is being set up to succeed. Blame it on a "new offense" or w/e other excuses have been put out there.

To an extent this is the conversation I'm talking about. I'm giving Mac until the end of this year before making a rough estimate. You can usually see "it" in the first two years but you wait 3-4 for good measure (coaching fits - Daniel Jones, Josh Allen etc, maybe injuries slow the first few years)

It comes up quick when you factor in rookie contracts, QB classes/draft opportunities and rising cost at the position.

Tough subject but one we're going to have to take on considering Allen, Mahomes and others in the AFC/E.

At that position you either have "elite" or you're looking for it. Or you're just middling around hoping to get lucky.

Just curious, would you take Daboll + Daniel Jones over say, Josh McDaniels + Mac Jones?

Because I've been watching the Giants each week (live in NY state) and I'm convinced Daboll is moving on from Jones.

I say this because Daboll has Jones playing within himself, he has him running, but the guy is just so inaccurate.

 

[BB8XSBW]

.

FWIW, Bedard blames Meyers for both the pick six and the failed fourth down.

He agrees with others who have said that Meyers ran the wrong option route on the pick six.


On the fourth down, Jones clearly motions to Meyers to fade back because the defender covering Meyers was focused on Jones rather than watching where Meyers was. He says that if Meyers backed up when Jones signaled, it would have probably been a TD pass because there was only daylight between Meyers and the end zone. At the very least, that shows what Jones saw on that play.

Of course Bedard is not the be all and end all on film study, he does at least analyze the coach’s film.

Not sure why Bedard is surprised, though. I was telling everyone immediately after the game that Mac had a tremendous performance, given the circumstances.

Very underrated performance from him. It's very much like fine wine. It gets better with each viewing.

 

[Sicilian]

I think we should be free to do so without jumping on teams and sides. Or pretend one is being set up to succeed. Blame it on a "new offense" or w/e other excuses have been put out there.

The only thing I would say to this is that it doesn't have to be an intentional shift for it to affect a QB pretty drastically. Look at Aaron Rodgers this year. His weapons changed, and they've gone from a top ten in points scored and passing yards per game to a bottom ten in both. Rodgers hasn't changed, but the situation around him did. Mac needs to play better than he has, there really shouldn't be a doubt about that. But his situation has changed quite a bit from rookie year to year 2: Major OL shuffles, almost an entirely new offensive coaching staff, and now an injury to boot (though that obviously doesn't factor into the first three weeks).

Lot to prove for him still, but I don't think we should discount the chaos that's been going on around him either.