Mac Jones is the Starter [Update - Mac is starting vs the Jete, says BB]

[Pape]

Like @RobertWeathers says, that narrative is BS.

which QB did they set the game plan up for?

Now go compare it to the game plans for Zappe

 

[venecol]

Zappe played in Division I subdivision. He wasn't playing against true Division I talent. On Monday night he wilted against better and taller athletes in the shotgun. He was awful in the shotgun.

And I love how you are using six passes by Jones and a game where Zappe did an unusually low amount of play actions for him (he is averaging over 30% play action passes this season and Monday night only 9% of his passes were play action) as proof of anything. Why not show stats from the entire season?

Here you go.

Comparison:


Zappe / Mac: for each category

Air Yards:



Accuracy:



Pressure:



Play Type:



Ref: Pro Football Reference

 

[Tunescribe]

It's a lazy take by Toolscribe, or he's trying to mark posters with scarlet letters to get them banned. That's his MO. Whatever.

BTW, didn't realize there were 88 regulars on the Brady forum (more like 8). Lol

You have been outed multiple times over this Mr. Feminine Hygiene Product (a/k/a anti-Mac Jones campaign chairman). Spelled out for you again in post No. 257. And please explain exactly what you mean by "he's trying to mark posters with scarlet letters to get them banned." Your white-knuckle grip is slipping, li'l fella.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ok, as long as we establish this is just your wild speculation and not based on facts, we can move on.

Look at @venecol 's posts. It's all right there. Playcalling was the same on Mon

Prior to that there is a reason Mac has not been running PA most of the season. He either is still having problems with the new offense and/or in the new offense he is not comfortable running PA.

Do you think if the coaching staff and Mac were 100% aligned and comfortable running more PA they would do more?

Seems like you are implying they are but are stupidly not?

Feel free to move on and debate this with someone else. Fine with me.

 

[Rob0729]

Here you go.

Comparison:


Zappe / Mac: for each category

Air Yards:



Accuracy:



Pressure:



Play Type:



Ref: Pro Football Reference

Thank you for posting interesting stats that have absolutely nothing to do with what I asked. Again, show me stats comparing the two QBs in terms of how many times each is under center and running play action for the entire season. Showing stats for the Patriots for the entire season tells nothing.

 

[venecol]

Zappe played in Division I subdivision. He wasn't playing against true Division I talent. On Monday night he wilted against better and taller athletes in the shotgun. He was awful in the shotgun.

And I love how you are using six passes by Jones and a game where Zappe did an unusually low amount of play actions for him (he is averaging over 30% play action passes this season and Monday night only 9% of his passes were play action) as proof of anything. Why not show stats from the entire season?

I showed stats above. He has 20% PA plays: 20 ÷ (92 + 6)

Not sure how 20% is a large number in any area. This is confirmed in the video. Stats confirm he is accurate with good air yards & under same pressure% as Mac with slightly more PA plays. He needs to work on his Sack%.

 

[Rob0729]

Look at @venecol 's post. It's all right there. Playcalling was the same.

Feel free to move on.

I did look at his post. His post shows stats where Jones threw six times and Zappe had the lowest percentage of play action in a game so far in his career by about a third of the percentage he normally plays it.

 

[venecol]

Thank you for posting interesting stats that have absolutely nothing to do with what I asked. Again, show me stats comparing the two QBs in terms of how many times each is under center and running play action for the entire season. Showing stats for the Patriots for the entire season tells nothing.

What?

Those are season stats for each QB. Look at #s under Play Type.

Look at QB #10 & #4 on each table. Read dude.

 

[Rob0729]

I showed stats above. He has 20% PA plays: 20 ÷ (92 + 6)

Not sure how 20% is a large number in any area. This is confirmed in the video. Stats confirm he is accurate with good air yards & under same pressure% as Mac with slightly more PA plays. He needs to work on his Sack%.

That's after this week where he only three play action twice and he sucked most of the game out of shotgun. Take away this past game and it is 28.6% (18 play action passes in 70 throws).

 

[catent]

Rob, you like Jones, that's fine. You don't like Zappe.

Your relentless pursuit to undermine and denigrate Zappe is a bad look and is rooted in just as much speculation and conjecture as you're accusing others of. Cherry-picking statistics and plays as it suits you.

Zappe struggled in the 2nd half. His game has flaws and he has a lot to work on.

Your conviction that he's permanently figured out and cannot operate the offense moving forward is bullsh*t. Maybe, but we cannot know that yet, so you sitting here and telling us with certainty that Zappe is useless going forward (after fewer than 5 career games), and can't do any of the stuff Jones is being asked to do (which, apparently Jones can't, either) is junk.

We'll see how Jones does in the next game or two.

 

[Rob0729]

What?

Those are season stats for each QB. Look at #s under Play Type.

Well, you should have labeled it. I didn't get it. And I showed how the one game where Zappe sucked skews his play action percentage.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob, you like Jones, that's fine. You don't like Zappe.

Your relentless pursuit to undermine and denigrate Zappe is a bad look and is rooted in just as much speculation and conjecture as you're accusing others of.

Cherry-picking statistics and plays as it suits you.

Zappe struggled in the 2nd half. Your conviction that he's permanently figured out and cannot operate the offense moving forward is a steaming load of bullsh*t.

We'll see how Jones does going forward.

I don't not like Zappe. I just see him the way most people outside of New England sees him. He has the chance to be a really good back up for a long career. If he defies the odds. he will be a decent starter. That is the way the Bears looked at him.

 

[catent]

 

[Tunescribe]

It's not that simple.

Maybe Mac isn't good at executing/selling the play action. Maybe he isn't as good on his line calls, reading the D, etc. So the staff is calling what they think he can execute successfully.

This narrative of not calling the right plays for Mac is BS.

Look at @venecol 's post. It's all right there. Playcalling was the same.

Feel free to move on.

Mac arguably can do a better job selling play action. But there are other factors involved suggesting he has not been put in the best position to succeed with it, including the type of play called that employs PA. Also, how the running game is working plays into this.

@Rob0729 is correct. The differences in plays called for Jones and Zappe have been stark according to multiple analysts; the defining take comes from Bedard's all-22 breakdown and Bears game overview:

Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal // 3 Up and 3 Down // Patriots QB Situation - 10/26 (Hour 1)

(0:00) Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal joins the show to discuss the Patriots loss to the Bears. (13:22) The callers weigh in on all things Patriots! (23:09) 3 Up and 3 Down with Bedard! (30:35) Patriots QB and offensive situation. CONNECT WITH FELGER & MAZZ https://www.instagr

985thesportshub.com

Patriots Gameplay // Belichick’s Postgame Comments // Callers Weigh In - 10/25 (Hour 2)

(0:00) What went wrong with the Patriots last night? (13:58) Felger, Mazz, and Murray take to the callers. (24:17) Reacting to Belichick’s postgame comments. (33:10) Are you surprised Belichick played both Quarterbacks? CONNECT WITH FELGER & MAZZ https://www.instagram.com/felgerandmassaro

985thesportshub.com

 

[venecol]

That's after this week where he only three play action twice and he sucked most of the game out of shotgun. Take away this past game and it is 28.6% (18 play action passes in 70 throws).

Lol, this week doesn't count? You specifically asked for entire season stats. I gave them to you. Now you're complaining? Whatever dude, believe what you want. I'm out.

One last point: think about what the narrative that Bedard & Perry are spinning (which has caught on) does to the team. They're in one fell swoop undermining Zappe, Patricia & Judge, which in turn makes Bill look like an ass. Is that the hot take you want to latch on to? I'm no fan of Patricia or Judge, but that take is ludicrous. Watch the film.

 

[Rob0729]

Mac arguably can do a better job selling play action. But there are other factors involved suggesting he has not been put in the best position to succeed with it, including the type of play called that employs PA. Also, how the running game is working plays into this.

@Rob0729 is correct. The differences in plays called for Jones and Zappe have been stark according to multiple analysts; the defining take comes from Bedard's all-22 breakdown and Bears game overview:

Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal // 3 Up and 3 Down // Patriots QB Situation - 10/26 (Hour 1)

(0:00) Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal joins the show to discuss the Patriots loss to the Bears. (13:22) The callers weigh in on all things Patriots! (23:09) 3 Up and 3 Down with Bedard! (30:35) Patriots QB and offensive situation. CONNECT WITH FELGER & MAZZ https://www.instagr

985thesportshub.com

Patriots Gameplay // Belichick’s Postgame Comments // Callers Weigh In - 10/25 (Hour 2)

(0:00) What went wrong with the Patriots last night? (13:58) Felger, Mazz, and Murray take to the callers. (24:17) Reacting to Belichick’s postgame comments. (33:10) Are you surprised Belichick played both Quarterbacks? CONNECT WITH FELGER & MAZZ https://www.instagram.com/felgerandmassaro

985thesportshub.com

Even Zo and Breer who are on more on the Zappe side on the play calling argument do admit that Zappe gets different plays because of the differences in the two QBs. I think Zo fights against the whole the coaching staff is trying to sandbag Jones but even he admits there are differences.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's not a talking point, Kontra, just an observation that this alleged "quarterback controversy" has fallen at least partially along lines of certain influence. Which includes representatives of the Tampa Bay ghetto who are conspicuously anti-Mac Jones vs. pro-Patriots playing whoever BB believes gives New England its best chance to win. I'm not the only person who has observed this. They know Zappe is not a franchise quarterback and that Mac's failure = BB's failure = back to the drawing board for finding Brady's ultimate heir, which might not happen during whatever time BB has left. This is apart from those who simply feel Zappe > Mac.

This is only occurring in your own head. There’s nowhere near enough data on Zappe or Mac to make a long term conclusion just yet. Especially not on Zappe.

However, if you feel that this phenomenon is not just in your own head, and that you’ve seen such posts, then quote them. Otherwise, it’s the same dogshit lazy talking point as accusing people of being Colts fans in 2006, Jets fans in 2009/2010, Steelers fans in 2011, Giants fans in 2012, Broncos fans in 2013-2015, and Chiefs fans in 2018-current. Each of those talking points came with the caveat that the hypothetical poster in question (since nobody could ever come up with examples) actually hated the team and just wanted to see themselves as right, and BB wrong.

Occam’s Razor tells us that the pro-Zappe crowd actually believes he has a higher ceiling than Mac, and that they want what’s best for the team. Anything else is a manufactured controversy stemming completely from your, let’s just call it, “psychosis.”

 

[Rob0729]

Lol, this week doesn't count? You specifically asked for entire season stats. I gave them to you. Now you're complaining? Whatever dude, believe what you want. I'm out.

One last point: think about what the narrative that Bedard & Perry are spinning (which has caught on) does to the team. They're in one fell swoop undermining Zappe, Patricia & Judge, which in turn makes Bill look like an ass. Is that the hot take you want to latch on to? I'm no fan of Patricia or Judge, but that take is ludicrous. Watch the film.

No this week counts, but do you think it is a coincidence when they start to call plays for Zappe more like Mac Jones that Zappe turtles? That is my point. Before Chicago, they clearly called plays differently for Zappe than they did for Jones. And they did early in the game on Monday night. After they started to put Zappe consistently in the shotgun, he had four tipped balls at the line and two interceptions.

And it isn't reporters and analysis to protect Patricia's and Judge's reputation. And most of these guys were killing Patricia and Judge during the preseason when Jones was the starter and Zappe was a struggling rookie. I don't remember you caring that people were trashing them and their offensive strategy.

 

[Rob0729]

This is only occurring in your own head. There’s nowhere near enough data on Zappe or Mac to make a long term conclusion just yet. Especially not on Zappe.

However, if you feel that this phenomenon is not just in your own head, and that you’ve seen such posts, then quote them. Otherwise, it’s the same dogshit lazy talking point as accusing people of being Colts fans in 2006, Jets fans in 2009/2010, Steelers fans in 2011, Giants fans in 2012, Broncos fans in 2013-2015, and Chiefs fans in 2018-current. Each of those talking points came with the caveat that the hypothetical poster in question (since nobody could ever come up with examples) actually hated the team and just wanted to see themselves as right, and BB wrong.

Occam’s Razor tells us that the pro-Zappe crowd actually believes he has a higher ceiling than Mac, and that they want what’s best for the team. Anything else is a manufactured controversy stemming completely from your, let’s just call it, “psychosis.”

In fairness, I think there are some people who equate Jones with their anti-Belichick bias and are rooting for his failure even at the determent to the team. I don't think they are close to the majority or even a large minority. But I get that vibe from a least a few people who have trashed Belichick over the last three years even if they are not even aware they are doing it. I could be wrong though.

But there is a pretty big coincidence that most of the pro-Brady crowd have Zappe fever and trash Jones. It could be their wishful thinking that Zappe is the next Brady who takes the starting spot from the anointed starter like how Brady started his career.

 

[Thelonious]

I don't share your pessimism, I expect a New England win.

The Jete currently are ranked 15th in team defense, the Pats are 17th after Monday with little actually separating the two units. I noted "tendencies" because it's the same base personnel/scheme/coaches as last year that the Patriots (most importantly Mac) have familiarity with. The Jete offense is operating behind the eight ball now with cornerstone RB Hall shelved. McMilfson is playing poorly. Their OL has been in turmoil, now on LT No. 3 and starting right guard Alijah Vera-Tucker just placed on IR.

This is far from a mismatch. Perhaps an argument can be made for the two teams being essentially equal but the Pats will have a big advantage if the running game can return to form after Monday's no-show. Plus I'll take BB over Bim Saleh Bim and his idiot OC LaFleur every time.

You make a good case. Let's hope I'm wrong once more!