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BB knows how to judge CB's- JC Jackson benched for poor play on MNF

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Just wait to see our secondary next year, after the Chargers cut Jackson and he signs a one-year prove it deal with the Pats to cash in on the market again after 2023….

Funny thing is I can see this happening.then JC Jackson will play like a #1 corner again get paid then cut then back to the Patriots

Cue Jamie Collins!
 
It was really more like 2005-2012, with some years being better than others. Asante was a ballhawk who also gave up plays, which you could also say about JC Jackson (and Jack Jones). Leigh Bodden had one good year. Rookie McCourty was a Pro Bowl CB before second year McCourty became a terrible CB and then became an elite FS. But overall, that position during the era between Law and Talib was just a bunch of "smurfs", as this board always called them.

I also think Jackson is going to bounce back when fully healthy. Might just be in a bad system too, no idea what the Chargers run.

Agree. I guess I could add there was the Talib-Revis-Gilmore timeframe where BB was just out buying top shelf CB1 talent, which I suppose any coach could do, as opposed to the Butler-JC.Jackson-J.Jones narrative people are celebrating here (finding the diamond in UDFA/late rounds). Oh, and the hundred or so bad 2nd round DB picks.
 
Yeah, he's really done well at that, minus one tiny exception...or large unforgivable exception according to a few posters here. But who would have thought that man would give up his family for football.
Even that exception was two years too soon. It just happens that player is he GOAT at the most important position.
 
I know this my sound self serving coming from a former HS football coach, BUT Jackson's seeming fall from grace is less about how good a player he is, than how he is USED within a defensive system. Lets not forget that for several years here, JC was a VERY good CB. He wasn't a flash in the pan, he was someone who seemed to improve every year he was here.

People are right to imply that his lack of success in LA is more the result of him not being put into positions to succeed, than anything inherently wrong with him as a player. Maybe his injury situation is a factor, but he played hurt here occasionally and wasn't this ineffective. He blew that coverage on Denver's only TD of the game.

I don't know. Maybe its him, maybe its the coaching. One thing for sure, from what I saw last night, that was NOT the same JC Jackson we had for 4 years here. That being said, I wouldn't go and feel great about someone's apparent failure. Things can always turn around for him when he gets healthier AND his coaches start to use him better.

We have been all over Bill for his draft picking. We take EVERY chance to 2nd guess FA moves. We often harp on the misses and ignore the hits. While we have been critical about Bill's coaching moves this off season, the operation SEEMS to be working fairly well. The sideline seems to be in control. People know were to got and who to see when they get there. The situational substitutions care going smoothly. And in game management has never been chaotic.

Let's talk about the OC. There has NEVER been an offensive coordination in the Bill Bellichick era that HASN'T been 2n guess ad nausium.
From Charley Wiess to Josh McDaniel, to BOB and anyone else who was entrusted to call the offensive plays on game day; there has been those among us that have gone NUTS with some of the play calling, including myself. But we are fans and 2nd guessing is literally one of the jobs of fans. I bet it's in the definition of what a fan is.

I have no problem with a fan 2nd guessing, like I said. What I DO have a problem with is fans who 2nd guess and believe that their opinion comes because they believe they are smarter than the coaches being paid to do their jobs, rather than understanding and acknowledging that it comes from perfect 20-20 HINDSIGHT.

For YEARS I complained about McDaniels constantly using an empty backfield on 3rd and short situations, thus relieving the defense from any worry about a run. But I understood that I had NONE of the information and the benefit of about a dozen people feeding me information accumulated over several weeks about the team we were playing. I was just a guy on a couch with an UNINFORMED opinion. SURE I was pissed when he did it, but I had the humility to understand that despite MY anger in the moment, I was just another guy on a couch throwing pillows at the TV.

Speaking of good Coaching, I'd like to take a moment to laud the obvious good coaching of Brian Bellichick and Mike Pelligrino. 2 guys who are never talked about but are the 2 DB coaches. They have done an EXCELLENT job of getting their players into positions where they can make plays. Ever wonder why the Pats ALWAYS seem to get the "buy in" from players every year. It IS hard here, but most players will come and want to stay because they FEEL that they will be put in position to make plays. That they will always have game plans and responsibilities that will give them the best chance to WIN the game. And those times after losses they will come in on a Monday and they will see that if they had played better at those key points in the game, they wouldn't have lost. Mistakes will be acknowledged by players and coaches, the things that need to be worked on will be incorporated into the practice schedule and the process will go on.

OK, let me get off the pulpit and back on track. the Pats are currently have the 8th rated overall defense according to some random site I googled. Oddly in the individual stats like pass and run ypg they ranked in the 15-17 range. But as you know there is only ONE defensive stat that matters and thats points allowed and there we ranked 7th (18.8 with the Bills and Niners an astonishing 13 and 14 ppg respectively); Anyhow all I know is this season, having bunch of injuries and rookies out there, I see a majority of the time tight coverage and good tackling by the DB's and a part of that comes from good COACHING. Every game it seems to be getting better even though for the most part we are running around with fast, quick midgets back there (thank god for Kyle Duggar) Maybe NEXT year we will find the Joshua Williams type CB that will make me happy, or maybe JJ Williams will take a speed pill while on IR

Bottom line it seems to be that our defense is out performing it's apparent talent. While musing over these stats I noted that 3 of our 6 games came against top 7 offenses (Lions, Browns, Ravens) Conversely 2 of our wins game again bottom 3 defenses (Lions, Browns) It also doesn't help that the Steelers, Miami and the Packers were all in the 20's.

Observation - We've played pretty good defense (not great)against very good offenses. We really haven't played any of the best defenses yet,

I like our defensive coaching, defensive plans, and the fact they seem to be improving. They will need to be as we get to the middle of our schedule.

Christ, I HAVE rambled on and pretty far from the thread topic. Sorry.
 
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I bet he bounces back to being something between his NEP days and what we are seeing now.

Yes, his stats are awful but I don’t think he is “worst CB in the league” bad
 
He started finally going after height and man coverage players

No more 5’9 little buck Wheatley zone corners
Jonathan Jones says hello. 5'10" and best cb on the team. After being one of the best slot cbs in the nfl he's now one of the best outside guys. Better than JCJackson.
Height is overrated. He's got a better skill set than 90% of the #1 cbs in the nfl. Speed,toughness great tackler smart hands you name it. Most burner wrs are not tall anyway.
 
JC's biggest mistake was returning opening night from ankle surgery only 3 week prior. He looks really slow.

Think about it. Mac has been out 3 weeks now without surgery. What the hell was JC thinking?
 
JC's biggest mistake was returning opening night from ankle surgery only 3 week prior. He looks really slow.

Think about it. Mac has been out 3 weeks now without surgery. What the hell was JC thinking?
That would explain a lot. We know for a fact he doesn't stink.

You think he rushed back from his injury and it then lingered and hasn't healed yet?
 
Jonathan Jones says hello. 5'10" and best cb on the team. After being one of the best slot cbs in the nfl he's now one of the best outside guys. Better than JCJackson.
Height is overrated. He's got a better skill set than 90% of the #1 cbs in the nfl. Speed,toughness great tackler smart hands you name it. Most burner wrs are not tall anyway.
That's the draftnik impulse run amok. I remember the years when we NEVER GOT A TALL CORNER AND THAT'S WHY um oh that's right we win super bowls but THAT IS JUST LUCK AND TOM BRADY

Right now we're on about our fifth WE NEVER DRAFT A NUMBER 1 WIDE RECEIVER WHO CAN TAKE THE TOP OFF A DEFENSE OMG WHAT AM I SAYING WE NEVER HAVE A NUMBER 1 RECEIVER THROUGH FA OR THE DRAFT AT LEAST NOT NUMBER 1 ENOUGH FOR TOM BRADY

That's despite having a rookie with sub 4.3 time. I'm sure we've also got some whiners that want us to have a "bell cow running back" even though hardly anybody does that anymore.... and even though we had 2 of em.

I know it's not fun to sit around and extol a really good resilient organization for doing the job well, but you're wrong less often like that, in this case.
 
Drafts 5’8 marcus Jones in the third round, 5’10 jack Jones in the 4th. Starting 5’10 jon Jones and 5’9 myles bryant too. That is absolutely not it.

Just good at evaluating talent.
Big improvement in teaching the position and acquiring man corners.
 
I know this my sound self serving coming from a former HS football coach, BUT Jackson's seeming fall from grace is less about how good a player he is, than how he is USED within a defensive system. Lets not forget that for several years here, JC was a VERY good CB. He wasn't a flash in the pan, he was someone who seemed to improve every year he was here.

People are right to imply that his lack of success in LA is more the result of him not being put into positions to succeed, than anything inherently wrong with him as a player. Maybe his injury situation is a factor, but he played hurt here occasionally and wasn't this ineffective. He blew that coverage on Denver's only TD of the game.

I don't know. Maybe its him, maybe its the coaching. One thing for sure, from what I saw last night, that was NOT the same JC Jackson we had for 4 years here. That being said, I wouldn't go and feel great about someone's apparent failure. Things can always turn around for him when he gets healthier AND his coaches start to use him better.

We have been all over Bill for his draft picking. We take EVERY chance to 2nd guess FA moves. We often harp on the misses and ignore the hits. While we have been critical about Bill's coaching moves this off season, the operation SEEMS to be working fairly well. The sideline seems to be in control. People know were to got and who to see when they get there. The situational substitutions care going smoothly. And in game management has never been chaotic.

Let's talk about the OC. There has NEVER been an offensive coordination in the Bill Bellichick era that HASN'T been 2n guess ad nausium.
From Charley Wiess to Josh McDaniel, to BOB and anyone else who was entrusted to call the offensive plays on game day; there has been those among us that have gone NUTS with some of the play calling, including myself. But we are fans and 2nd guessing is literally one of the jobs of fans. I bet it's in the definition of what a fan is.

I have no problem with a fan 2nd guessing, like I said. What I DO have a problem with is fans who 2nd guess and believe that their opinion comes because they believe they are smarter than the coaches being paid to do their jobs, rather than understanding and acknowledging that it comes from perfect 20-20 HINDSIGHT.

For YEARS I complained about McDaniels constantly using an empty backfield on 3rd and short situations, thus relieving the defense from any worry about a run. But I understood that I had NONE of the information and the benefit of about a dozen people feeding me information accumulated over several weeks about the team we were playing. I was just a guy on a couch with an UNINFORMED opinion. SURE I was pissed when he did it, but I had the humility to understand that despite MY anger in the moment, I was just another guy on a couch throwing pillows at the TV.

Speaking of good Coaching, I'd like to take a moment to laud the obvious good coaching of Brian Bellichick and Mike Pelligrino. 2 guys who are never talked about but are the 2 DB coaches. They have done an EXCELLENT job of getting their players into positions where they can make plays. Ever wonder why the Pats ALWAYS seem to get the "buy in" from players every year. It IS hard here, but most players will come and want to stay because they FEEL that they will be put in position to make plays. That they will always have game plans and responsibilities that will give them the best chance to WIN the game. And those times after losses they will come in on a Monday and they will see that if they had played better at those key points in the game, they wouldn't have lost. Mistakes will be acknowledged by players and coaches, the things that need to be worked on will be incorporated into the practice schedule and the process will go on.

OK, let me get off the pulpit and back on track. the Pats are currently have the 8th rated overall defense according to some random site I googled. Oddly in the individual stats like pass and run ypg they ranked in the 15-17 range. But as you know there is only ONE defensive stat that matters and thats points allowed and there we ranked 7th (18.8 with the Bills and Niners an astonishing 13 and 14 ppg respectively); Anyhow all I know is this season, having bunch of injuries and rookies out there, I see a majority of the time tight coverage and good tackling by the DB's and a part of that comes from good COACHING. Every game it seems to be getting better even though for the most part we are running around with fast, quick midgets back there (thank god for Kyle Duggar) Maybe NEXT year we will find the Joshua Williams type CB that will make me happy, or maybe JJ Williams will take a speed pill while on IR

Bottom line it seems to be that our defense is out performing it's apparent talent. While musing over these stats I noted that 3 of our 6 games came against top 7 offenses (Lions, Browns, Ravens) Conversely 2 of our wins game again bottom 3 defenses (Lions, Browns) It also doesn't help that the Steelers, Miami and the Packers were all in the 20's.

Observation - We've played pretty good defense (not great)against very good offenses. We really haven't played any of the best defenses yet,

I like our defensive coaching, defensive plans, and the fact they seem to be improving. They will need to be as we get to the middle of our schedule.

Christ, I HAVE rambled on and pretty far from the thread topic. Sorry.
Great post… and the empty backfield on third and short drives me crazy, too. Lol
 
APOLOGY: I had the OP accidentally on ignore so I missed this whole thread.

Doesn't surprise me that troll basement here is silent on this:


BB saved $51mm by not chasing JC.

How many of you though letting JC go was the right move? And all three Jones's are outplaying him.

My guess is that BB's track record on free agent signing is pretty solid, but as there are even less success metrics for free agency management than there are for drafting, evaluations are just sport for the trolls.
 
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Doesn't surprise me that troll basement here is silent on this:


BB saved $51mm by not chasing JC.

How many of you though letting JC go was the right move? And all three Jones's are outplaying him.

My guess is that BB's track record on free agent signing is pretty solid, but as there are even less success metrics for free agency management than there are for drafting, evaluations are just sport for the trolls.
I would have liked to keep JC here... and at the right price or right contract structure, im sure BB would have kept him too... i think 16.5 aav was a bit much but the 40 million guaranteed in year 1 was probably the deal breaker... they didnt even guarantee matthew judon that much...
 
I was blowing up my group chats as soon as he got burned the first time.
 
I’m still a fan of what he did here. Hopefully he’ll get his **** together and play good football again. Chargers are a lot easier to stomach then any of those other afc west teams. You never know, maybe he’ll be back in a Pats uni again someday?
 
The only position BB has been really bad at drafting is WR. Everything else he does really well, except for the occasional 2nd round miss on a DB
You can make a case for RB. He's only drafted one guy who has surpassed 1,000 on the ground and that was Stevan Ridley. Harris is only the 2nd RB to eclipse 10+ TD's in a season.

3rd down/receiving backs he can find. Bell cow backs he has not.
 
So by the logic of the title of this thread, BB doesn't know how to judge OL because Wynn was benched several times this season.
 
You can make a case for RB. He's only drafted one guy who has surpassed 1,000 on the ground and that was Stevan Ridley. Harris is only the 2nd RB to eclipse 10+ TD's in a season.
I think Rham was an incredible pick. We'll see about Strong and K. Harris going forward.
 
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