NFL QB Rankings (looking toward 2023)

[venecol]

I already addressed that above... it's far easier to pass now than it was back when Vick played. Defenses could hit the QB, they could get physical with receivers. It's a different game now.

I'm wrong about Lamar? I said he would look great in the regular season and suck in the playoffs.... where exactly have I been wrong?

I was dead right about LJ, until he proves otherwise.

Vick played 2001-2006, 2009-2015. You make it sound like he played in the 80s. Lol

Here's where you're wrong:

"I think he could "appear" really good, he could look like young Michael Vick... and just like Vick he will be fool's gold."

Wrong. He's way better than Vick.

"He will win some regular season games but unless he has the perfect situation around him won't sniff the Super Bowl."

Wrong. He's won way more than "some" games (.750 win %). Well he's hardly had a perfect situation with all the teams injuries.

"Vick has a career 56% completion rate, his career win/loss record is 61-51, he averaged over 2.5 INT's per game... "

Wrong on the INT (it's 0.6/gm). LJ is 64.1% completion rate, so wrong again.

"people think he was good because he was good on Tecmo Bowl or Nintendo, in the real world he appeared in 5 playoff games over 13 seasons."

Wrong. He appeared in 6 games.

"You have to be able to pass accurately to beat NFL caliber playoff defenses... passing is important." - Wozzy, Apr 23, 2018

Yea, not sh*t oh wise one.

Overall, your post is just.

 

[Wozzy]

Vick played 2001-2006, 2009-2015. You make it sound like he played in the 80s. Lol

Here's where you're wrong:

"I think he could "appear" really good, he could look like young Michael Vick... and just like Vick he will be fool's gold."

Wrong. He's way better than Vick.

"He will win some regular season games but unless he has the perfect situation around him won't sniff the Super Bowl."

Wrong. He's won way more than "some" games (.750 win %). Well he's hardly had a perfect situation with all the teams injuries.

"Vick has a career 56% completion rate, his career win/loss record is 61-51, he averaged over 2.5 INT's per game... "

Wrong on the INT (it's 0.6/gm). LJ is 64.1% completion rate, so wrong again.

"people think he was good because he was good on Tecmo Bowl or Nintendo, in the real world he appeared in 5 playoff games over 13 seasons."

Wrong. He appeared in 6 games.

"You have to be able to pass accurately to beat NFL caliber playoff defenses... passing is important." - Wozzy, Apr 23, 2018

Yea, not sh*t oh wise one.

Overall, your post is just.

View attachment 45871

The Ravens have to limit the amount of passes Jackson throws so he doesn’t hurt them.

Jackson is the modern equivalent of Mike Vick, but Vick never had it as good schematically… except maybe after prison when Andy Reid was his coach and he put up the most efficient numbers of his career.

Passing from the pocket is what good playoff defenses will force a QB to do… Jackson fails every postseason because he can’t.

Make sure you’re here in December and January to prove me wrong… like Lamar has done so many times before.

Lamar's career playoff totals: 1-3 Record, 56% Completions, 3td's/5 INT's, 6.62 Yards Per Passing Attempt, 19 Sacks, 68.3 QB Rating... and oh yeah, 5 Fumbles.

Wrong!!!

 

[Joker]

************. Relax. Jackson is age 25. This is only his 4th season as a starting quarterback in the NFL. He got knocked out of the season last year and his team went 0-5 without him. He's had 3 shots at the postseason and the first was his rookie season when he didn't start a game until week 10. He'll have to be Superman to get his team through the AFC postseason this year with some of the other teams/quarterbacks he'll have to contend with.

This is Jackson FIFTH year as a starting QB...Jackson started seven games for the Ravens in 2018

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong bc mine is better. I gave you career stats to show you how wrong you were and you still talk about opinions. That's one reasin why stats are there. Sometimes opinion lacks context. Yours did. You'd rather die on a hill than do 10 minutes of research at pro football reference.

I definitely don't think I'm an expert but it's almost 2023. "Breaking down film" is practically taught everywhere you look from former players and coaches. From Twitter to YT to different outlets that focus on that stuff. I've posted numerous clips here doing something similar to a lesser extent but understanding blocking schemes, route concepts, different techniques or moves isn't exactly a foreign language in 2022. I'm definitely not an expert but you've shown or detailed nothing to show you have any clue to what the Ravens offense is. Combined with how wrong you above its not a stretch to say you might not know what you're talking about.

Sorry if that upsets you man. It's not that serious dude.

You're walking back what you wrote because I called you out for insulting me. Pretty hypocritical as you get annoyed as mush as anyone on this board when someone calls you out so don't give me that BS. You talked smack about my football knowledge/opinion because you posted links to videos and stats supporting your narrative (see opinion) and I didn't but in your mind qualifies you as knowing more than me and being right? Please. Get over yourself. Don't be Deus.

But since you want to defend your assertion LJ is an elite passing QB and use stats and historical data, let's do that. You went there so we'll go there.

In the category of # of passing attempts, Jackson is 26th in the NFL this year and consistently near or at the bottom of the league annually in pass %/per play. Way below other more prolific passing offenses. That means he throws the ball much less than ~4/5th of the league. I'd suggest you crunch his stats when he throws 30 passes or more a game. He's done this 17 times - a whole season of data. You'll discover his passing #s are very average.

Elite passers make plays in the pocket consistently and at high-volume which is why I compare him to QBs who do. To say Jackson does at that level is inaccurate. Teams let QBs throw the ball more because they trust them to make plays in the passing game consistently. If you want hang yourself on that notion they don't feel free.

As a dual-threat, Jackson is productive. That is self-evident. After 3 games he has very good passing efficiency numbers. Way too small of a data sample but if it works for you, great. I need to see more over a longer period of time. As it pertains to proving he's an elite passing QB in comparison to others with years of production to point to, you have work to do and so does he.

 

[GreenCow]

Lamar played his first good defense of the year today.

144 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT

 

[mikey m]

Jackson is an extremely dangerous dual threat. He's got a great tight end to work with but pretty marginal wide receiver talent, or his passing numbers could look even better. I'm not sure I would call him an elite passer, though, because his passing game benefits from his elite running game. Basically, when the day comes that he loses a few steps and must play exclusively from the pocket, I think he will be done. For now though, it's just semantics, he's a helluva a qb and incredibly hard to defend. He will gash teams with his legs and his arm.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'd love for someone to really articulate and give a few examples of how his running game helps his passing. Please go into some detail the floor is open ...

 

[Wozzy]

I'd love for someone to really articulate and give a few examples of how his running game helps his passing. Please go into some detail the floor is open ...

He’s such a threat to run, teams have to commit a defender to shadowing him… start there.

Opposing defenses also can’t pass rush him like they can most teams. They have to maintain strict lane discipline and contain. He can burn you so easy if you think you have him and overcommit. That happened at least twice to the Pats last week. They had him for easy sacks and they gave up contain so he ran for easy big gains and third down conversions. No other QB other than Kyler provides that element.

Moreover Greg Roman’s scheme is brilliant, it maximizes his strengths and hides his weaknesses. It’s an oversized option offense. 2-3 TE’s on the field at a time along with a 300 pound FB. It’s hard for opponents who built their roster to defend 2-3 fast WR’s to match up with that kind of beef and still account for LJ’s speed. What they do schematically is wholly unique in the NFL.

The reason he usually leads the NFL in TD passes but is dead last in pass attempts is simple, they use his legs to get them goal to goal. Then they use the threat of him as a runner to freeze opposing defenses and open up targets on the goal line. Consider the early “pass” to Mark Andrews down on the goal line, it was a play action then a shovel pass to Andrews… it was a run play that will be tallied as a pass.

He’s not an accurate passer when asked to be a traditional pocket passer against better defenses who can hem him in and force him to play left handed.

This is fact. Until he proves otherwise it’s why he loses in the wild card round every year. LJ truthers will read what I wrote and repeat the same nonsense “he won the MVP award,” as if that makes anything I said less true.

Simple question… if LJ is a good passer, why does the team limit his pass attempts? If he were “good” at passing, they would let it fly… Harbaugh let Flacco lead the NFL in pass attempts, he’s not pass averse. Bottom line is they protect him from himself by limiting the number of passes and protect him using scheme.

LJ truthers don’t want to hear the truth, they cover their ears and disappear late in the season when he folds yet again. Don’t be that person.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Simple question… if LJ is a good passer, why does the team limit his pass attempts?

Bc he's the best running threat from the QB position ever and one of the best in the league in general. It's simply taking advantage of one of the best gifts out there. He has to improve as a passer but he's shown very capable of that if you're objective.

 

[Wozzy]

Bc he's the best running threat from the QB position ever and one of the best in the league in general. It's simply taking advantage of one of the best gifts out there. He has to improve as a passer but he's shown very capable of that if you're objective.

The greatest QB in pro football history, the guy who won a Super Bowl the season before last, he doesn't run at all.

Stafford's doesn't run, Mahomes isn't a runner... hell none of the QB's who won the Super Bowl over the last two decades were runners. Running isn't necessary, it's gravy, it's a nice thing to have in their tool chest. But teams have RB's to run the ball.

Passing is the job. Along with protecting the ball, passing is #1-2-3 on the list of important job functions. It's what great offenses have to do to beat great defenses in the playoffs... pass from the pocket against superior defensive backs. Lamar doesn't have that in his toolbox.

You asked the question, I provided an articulate answer. He hasn't improved much as a passer in the four years he's been a starter, Josh Allen has. I don't see why he would now when the team already caters the offense around his skills... but he might.

I blanche at the notion BB screwed up by not drafting Jackson, it's a garbage take. The goal is to win Super Bowls. If I owned and drove the fastest race car on the circuit, but it continually broke down before the championship race... what's the point? Lamar Jackson was completely off my draft board in 2018, I mean beyond my wanting to employ him as a receiver or RB... I certainly wasn't going to make an inferior passer a 1st round pick. He literally ruins your chances to win it all, even if he helps them get there.

Casual football fans blur the lines between fantasy football and real football... I want my team to win in real life. Lamar could win a ring if he improves his accuracy dramatically or if he faces three inferior defenses in the playoffs... what are the chances he faces three inferior defenses in the playoffs? Zero is the answer.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You asked the question, I provided an articulate answer. He hasn't improved much as a passer in the four years he's been a starter, Josh Allen has. I don't see why he would now when the team already caters the offense around his skills... but he might.

Thats pretty much it. He certainly has improved in some areas as he has acquired experience but in terms of consistently delivering pass after pass in a basic pro-style offense...not really.

For example, if you look at BAL from 2019-2021 in 11 (3WR/1TE) personnel he passed more in 2021 but his effectiveness was pretty much the same which was not all that overly efficient.

Other more prolific passing teams fared much better. Even Mac had a 100Qb rating in 11 personnel in 2021 whereas LJ was 86 rating with twice as few attempts as Mac.

Can he improve? Sure. It's not like he doesn't know what he doing out there. He can read defenses, change plays, look off DBs, etc. But what needs to happen for him to get to Josh Allen's level? Maybe better WRs are the answer. Once he got Diggs he took off. Maybe he needs to trust what he sees more out there and have more patience consistently. Maybe it's fundamentals (which he has worked on)? Not sure.

For those who need stats to reinforce what they see:

Personnel Grouping Frequency

www.sharpfootballstats.com

 

[crawhammer]

Lamar Jackson has gotten worse each year since his MVP season. Now in the midst of contract negotiations he has raised his level of play. He'll still get bounced early in the playoffs. None of you will be here crowing about how good he is then though. You'll disappear like LJ truthers always do... we're never having this conversation in December.

He was MVP in 2019... not that long ago... he had a good season in 2020... his team completely fell apart without him last season... he currently leads the NFL in TDs, TD% and has 8.5 yards per rushing attempt. They'll be no reason for anyone to run and hide in December... either he'll keep up his current pace or he won't. I suppose according to you, he's getting worse all the time, so if doesn't suck by December then you'll be wrong.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

You're walking back what you wrote because I called you out for insulting me. Pretty hypocritical as you get annoyed as mush as anyone on this board when someone calls you out so don't give me that BS. You talked smack about my football knowledge/opinion because you posted links to videos and stats supporting your narrative (see opinion) and I didn't but in your mind qualifies you as knowing more than me and being right? Please. Get over yourself. Don't be Deus.

I'm not walking back anything. You stated he wasn't as good a passer as Stafford, Herbert, Allen and I showed you multiple career stats to disprove your claim. I'm never said he was an elite passer. Just is the same tier as them.

And I don't think "I know more than you" bc I posted some stats. That just shows a lack of effort on your part. I think if someone went through our post history and was honest that question would answer itself. Honestly I can't think of one post of yours that made me think or I learned something. Sorry I'm just being honest man.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'd love for someone to really articulate and give a few examples of how his running game helps his passing. Please go into some detail the floor is open ...

Still waiting for an articulate, insightful answer. Seriously anyone step up to the plate ...

 

[PatsFan2]

Still waiting for an articulate, insightful answer. Seriously anyone step up to the plate ...

I'm right behind you in line popcorn in hand
and mouth.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Honestly speaking, Lamar did not look good yesterday...but he'd be a better option right now for us than Mac.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not walking back anything.

Yea you did and do. Whatever. You think your take is the word of gospel and everyone else you either ignore or claim they don't know as much as you. Just look as your past posts. It oozes arrogance.

You stated he wasn't as good a passer as Stafford, Herbert, Allen and I showed you multiple career stats to disprove your claim.

Not even close. Multiple career stats? LOL

How is his efficiency in 11 personnel compared to all QBs who throw for over 4000 yards and 500 attempts? How about % of bad throws per attempt? On target throw %? Games when he attempts more than 29 passes. How does he compare?

Do some homework.

I'm never said he was an elite passer. Just is the same tier as them.

He isn't.

You call me out for not adding context but your research/posting is 1/2 ass. You post some tweets and a couple of links to someone else doing film study and that's supporting your position? Nope.

And I don't think "I know more than you" bc I posted some stats. That just shows a lack of effort on your part. I think if someone went through our post history and was honest that question would answer itself. Honestly I can't think of one post of yours that made me think or I learned something. Sorry I'm just being honest man.

I really don't care if you learn something from me or not. I'm not spoon-feeding you. You've drawn your own conclusion and i'm not posting links because you won't read them anyway. You know where to find the info. I just backed up my opinion/observations. The question is are you too lazy or proud to analyze it?

When it comes to LJ i've eliminated you as having a valuable opinion. You are dying on the hill with the claim of saying he just as good as Josh Allen and Joe Burrow. Jesus...Comical.

 

[Wozzy]

He was MVP in 2019... not that long ago... he had a good season in 2020... his team completely fell apart without him last season... he currently leads the NFL in TDs, TD% and has 8.5 yards per rushing attempt. They'll be no reason for anyone to run and hide in December... either he'll keep up his current pace or he won't. I suppose according to you, he's getting worse all the time, so if doesn't suck by December then you'll be wrong.

He sucks every year in the playoffs and the LJ truthers disappear every year in the playoffs.... every f-ing year.

But don't worry, I bookmarked this thread and will remind you.

Just a reminder for now... I have this conversation with LJ truthers every September every season for the last four years and not once have one of you jokers acknowledged it.

 

[Wozzy]

I'm not walking back anything. You stated he wasn't as good a passer as Stafford, Herbert, Allen and I showed you multiple career stats to disprove your claim. I'm never said he was an elite passer. Just is the same tier as them.

This is a laughably bad take.

You posted a bunch of efficiency stats over three games played and conveniently decided to remove the pass attempts from those graphics.

Jakobi Meyers is a perfect 4-4 as a passer, so he must be a better passer than Stafford, Herbert, Allen and Jackson... just absurd.

 

[Wozzy]

Still waiting for an articulate, insightful answer. Seriously anyone step up to the plate ...

I gave you a thorough definitive answer above, and your only response was "but Lamar runs really well" and ignored everything else.

You had nothing.