Pats Rebuild Intermittent View of Progress

[203Pat]

Your concern for a state of mind that isn't relevant nor part of the original post is appreciated, but unnecessary.

The youth did get more snaps than normal (compared to their contribution/ability) that year already. Of approx. 1000 snaps on both offense and defense (2019 and 2020 classes):

2020 Duggar - 518, Uche - 178, Asiasi - 213, Keene - 141, Onwenu - 926, Herron - 351, Bryant - 156, Taylor - 50 - so an average of a third of the snaps.

2019 - Meyers - 665, Harry - 584, Williams - 171, Winovich - 594, Harris - 251, Froholdt - 61, and Coward - 419 - almost 40% of the snaps.

Compare that to 2019 and the two most recent draft classes - (also right around 1000 snaps)

2019 - Harry - 220, Williams - 80, Harris - 5, Coward - 43, and Meyers 416 - an average of 10% of the snaps

2018 - Wynn - 502, Michel - 420, Bentley - 275 - an average of around 40%, but meshed with the 2019 class - much lower total youth snaps of around 27% or so.

35% of the snaps vs 27% - that's a pretty good jump. Obviously this removes talent, draft position, injuries, and lots of other variables, but where are the numbers proving the Patriots didn't play their youth more in 2020 "just to win more games for Bill's benefit"?

2018 and 2019 they were post season contenders from minute one with a QB who goes to the AFCCG every year. You play the guys who are the best at that moment. When November of 2020 came around and the team was 2-5 and it was clear Cam was done he should have been yanked to see if there was any slim chance Stidham could play. Say what you want about Stidham but he can at least physically throw a football which it was apparently Cam could no longer do.

Uche played 50% of the snaps one time all of 2020 and played less than 30% of the snaps 5 out of the 9 games he played and still ended up with 9 tackles, sack, 2 tackles for a loss, and 7 QB hits. When he was healthy he should have seen more playing time.

Asiasi and Keene were literally the only two tight ends on the roster and still ended up as healthy scratches for half the year.

Herron, Dugger, and Onwenu were the only ones to see any real playing time that year as rookies and surprise, surprise, looks like Onwenu and Dugger will be starters this year with Herron in the mix to be the swing tackle. Maybe when you actually get the young guys on the field they can develop into a starter quicker.

 

[BB8XSBW]

They are even weaker at corner and LB this year. Defensive line is also a question mark. The defense might ultimately look better than the offense this year but things look to be very concerning on both sides of the ball right now.

​

This is pure gold.

They still have their best outside CB from last season (Jalen Mills), Jonathan Jones is healthy, and they've added more depth and youth. Marcus Jones and Jack Jones already look like they are on the verge of being elite. All they've lost is some undrafted system CB who Bill used his black magic on to make him serviceable, as he does with virtually every corner who plays here. Guaranteed he will suck outside of NE.

The LBs are faster, younger, and far more athletic.

The defense will easily be several tiers better than last season's, and last season's defense was the best in the league when healthy.

 

[Sicilian]

​

This is pure gold.

They still have their best outside CB from last season (Jalen Mills), Jonathan Jones is healthy, and they've added more depth and youth. Marcus Jones and Jack Jones already look like they are on the verge of being elite. All they've lost is some undrafted system CB who Bill used his black magic on to make him serviceable, as he does with virtually every corner who plays here. Guaranteed he will suck outside of NE.

The LBs are faster, younger, and far more athletic.

The defense will easily be several tiers better than last season's, and last season's defense was the best in the league when healthy.

You're giving us "glass half full" guys here a bad reputation.

 

[PScottman]

2018 and 2019 they were post season contenders from minute one with a QB who goes to the AFCCG every year. You play the guys who are the best at that moment. When November of 2020 came around and the team was 2-5 and it was clear Cam was done he should have been yanked to see if there was any slim chance Stidham could play. Say what you want about Stidham but he can at least physically throw a football which it was apparently Cam could no longer do.

Uche played 50% of the snaps one time all of 2020 and played less than 30% of the snaps 5 out of the 9 games he played and still ended up with 9 tackles, sack, 2 tackles for a loss, and 7 QB hits. When he was healthy he should have seen more playing time.

Asiasi and Keene were literally the only two tight ends on the roster and still ended up as healthy scratches for half the year.

Herron, Dugger, and Onwenu were the only ones to see any real playing time that year as rookies and surprise, surprise, looks like Onwenu and Dugger will be starters this year with Herron in the mix to be the swing tackle. Maybe when you actually get the young guys on the field they can develop into a starter quicker.

That was the best movement of the goalposts ever.

"The youth should've gotten more snaps in 2020 - because they didn't, Belichick is just in this coaching gig for himself"

They literally did get more snaps in 2020.

"Ummm...Tom Brady. Best players play."

And then trot out the unprovable "the youth didn't get ENOUGH snaps.".

Bravo.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

​

This is pure gold.

They still have their best outside CB from last season (Jalen Mills),

sure

Jonathan Jones is healthy, and they've added more depth and youth. Marcus Jones and Jack Jones already look like they are on the verge of being elite.

elite? really? maybe we need to pump the breaks on them

All they've lost is some undrafted system CB who Bill used his black magic on to make him serviceable, as he does with virtually every corner who plays here. Guaranteed he will suck outside of NE.

where was this magic on slowjuan williams?

The LBs are faster, younger, and far more athletic.

The defense will easily be several tiers better than last season's, and last season's defense was the best in the league when healthy.

you gotta be kidding

 

[ashley]

​

This is pure gold.

They still have their best outside CB from last season (Jalen Mills), Jonathan Jones is healthy, and they've added more depth and youth. Marcus Jones and Jack Jones already look like they are on the verge of being elite. All they've lost is some undrafted system CB who Bill used his black magic on to make him serviceable, as he does with virtually every corner who plays here. Guaranteed he will suck outside of NE.

The LBs are faster, younger, and far more athletic.

The defense will easily be several tiers better than last season's, and last season's defense was the best in the league when healthy.

That's a poster that is either trolling or hasn't been following during the summer.

 

[BB8XSBW]

You're giving us "glass half full" guys here a bad reputation.

Don't worry, I don't represent the "glass half full" guys. I'm a "glass is entirely full and almost spilling out" guy.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

That's a poster that is either trolling or hasn't been following during the summer.

 

[BB8XSBW]

That's a poster that is either trolling or hasn't been following during the summer.

I've noticed that there are a lot of those around here.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

You're giving us "glass half full" guys here a bad reputation.

I can't even bring myself to even response to his post.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

delete.

 

[203Pat]

That was the best movement of the goalposts ever.

"The youth should've gotten more snaps in 2020 - because they didn't, Belichick is just in this coaching gig for himself"

They literally did get more snaps in 2020.

"Ummm...Tom Brady. Best players play."

And then trot out the unprovable "the youth didn't get ENOUGH snaps.".

Bravo.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I never said anything about 2018 or 2019 and who played what snaps. I was strictly talking about 2020 and since it was clear that season was going nowhere midway through the rookies should have been on the field more. The best players should be on the field when you're in contention to win a super bowl every year but when you're 2-5 with a QB who clearly isn't the answer then start to get the rookies feet wet. We gained absolutely nothing by playing Cam and some of the other veterans down the stretch. A meaningless win or two and some playing time for guys who wouldn't be on the roster at the same time the next year.

 

[203Pat]

​

This is pure gold.

They still have their best outside CB from last season (Jalen Mills), Jonathan Jones is healthy, and they've added more depth and youth. Marcus Jones and Jack Jones already look like they are on the verge of being elite. All they've lost is some undrafted system CB who Bill used his black magic on to make him serviceable, as he does with virtually every corner who plays here. Guaranteed he will suck outside of NE.

The LBs are faster, younger, and far more athletic.

The defense will easily be several tiers better than last season's, and last season's defense was the best in the league when healthy.

Our best outside corner last year is now playing in Los Angeles. Jonathan Jones being healthy will be a big help in the slot but claiming two rookies "are on the verge of being elite" is asinine.

 

[crawhammer]

They were a playoff team last year after ONE non playoff season. They were the 1 seed with a month to go.

Which makes the 1-4 collapse all the worse.

I keep hearing how Bill uses September as an extension of the preseason and you don't really know what kind of team you have until midseason. Sounds like excuse making for a slow start(s). And how does this gel with the late season collapses? The team is 6-11 for December and January dating back to the 2019 season. What's the excuse for that? I mean seriously, we're extending the preseason by 4 games in September, and we're figuring out who we are by Thanksgiving. Right, that's the propaganda? So why the poor finishes?

 

[Ring 6]

Fairly judge him without TB

Ok without him
2008 went 11-5 with a qb who hadn’t started since HS
2016 went 2-0 with a qb who had never started a game in the nfl
Went 1-1 with a rookie who had a damaged throwing hand in the loss and couldn’t throw the ball
2020 went 7-9 with Legarm Newton after Brady bailed
2021 went 10-7 with a rookie Qb one of the few teams to ever make the playoffs with a rookie starting qb

So if you think that you need to not count the tremendous success he had with a stable QB (which I guess means there has never been a coach who gets credit for his success) then take a look at what he has done with unstable QB situations. Who has ever done better with QBs who never started a game before?

 

[BB8XSBW]

.

Fairly judge him without TB

Two Super Bowl rings + a SB winning gameplan that is sitting in the HOF.

The GOAT of all GOATs.

 

[Ring 6]

Which makes the 1-4 collapse all the worse.

I keep hearing how Bill uses September as an extension of the preseason and you don't really know what kind of team you have until midseason. Sounds like excuse making for a slow start(s). And how does this gel with the late season collapses? The team is 6-11 for December and January dating back to the 2019 season. What's the excuse for that? I mean seriously, we're extending the preseason by 4 games in September, and we're figuring out who we are by Thanksgiving. Right, that's the propaganda? So why the poor finishes?

Seriously?
So your opinion is that for the last 3 years the patriots have been a team with elite talent dragged down by bad coaching?

The reason for the spoof finishes?
2019 Brady played the worst football of his career.
2020 Legarm Newton
2021 The toughest part of the schedule was at the end, they had a lot of injuries.
It’s not that complicated.


Please explain what point you are trying to make.

Is it your argument that Bill Belichick is a bad football coach?
Would you like to name 5 better.


And why would Belichick need an excuse for anything? He could say FU walk away and be the GOAT. He doesn’t live his life in fear of needing to expect failure and line up excuses like you do.

In the NFL the first quarter of the season involves teams developing identity, and with the large amount of turnover that happens each year, figuring out how the pieces fit together. This has always been. Belichick recognizing it doesn’t mean he created it.

 

[lancerman]

I don’t want to live anymore

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Progress is a complex topic and we really won't know till the end of the season. But to compare with last season:

Our D will be better. DL is the same but Barmore will be more beastly. LB's are faster, I'm much happier with this group. DB's are faster and deeper. Run stopping at the point of attack is the main concern.

Our offense will also be better. Mac should improve. We're deeper at RB if Montgomery comes back; remember that White missed most of last season. OL will be with Trent Brown healthy from the start. TE will be better with a contributing Johnnu Smith. WR is much improved with the addition of Parker, and even better once Thornton returns in midseason. We're built to run but can also pass. Main concerns are the guards are talented but inexperienced, and the loss of McDaniels is hard to quantify.

The biggest issue is how many strong teams there are in the AFC and on our schedule, many more than normal. A lot of teams will finish 9-8 and 10-7 this year. What if we finish 10-7 and miss the playoffs on a tiebreaker? could easily happen. The key is the fist 4 games, we need to somehow split those, and then we have a great shot at being 7-2 at the bye. Tough 2nd half schedule but a 7-2 start would be awesome.

 

[Pats2000]

They are even weaker at corner and LB this year. Defensive line is also a question mark. The defense might ultimately look better than the offense this year but things look to be very concerning on both sides of the ball right now.

How do you figure defense is weaker than last year? The line is better, they have faster corners, LB got a speed upgrade where we were getting killed.